Cayman S Bargain of the year

[LeeM]

  The car my mate bought for $42k is very nice. So much so, that before it was delivered, Porsche Canberra tried to talk him out of it and hand back his cash, as loads of people had offered more money after it was sold

[911sies]

Does anyone know how much a dealer would pay for one of these cars? The reason I ask is that I was thinking if I was a "distressed seller", accepting a low-ball offer of $30K would be odd if a dealer would pay more than that. Would a dealer really be offering < $30K for a 2006 Cayman S manual @ 95K kms?

A good point, but there's a few variables that we'd need to know before finding out. Very few (2?) of the 15 cars I mentioned above were dealer cars and I didn't recognise the dealers from their photos (something I got good at 2 years ago). 

Relevant variables are whether the car was traded for another car at that dealer. The comparative lack of hassle of just handing you car over and negotiating a deal on your new ride will be attractive to people who won't or can't wait for the three months it takes for these cars to shift. 

The dealer will have more time than you and me to peruse the market and speak to his contacts on what price he can expect to get for these cars. Point in question is the silver 110k km car that started at over $50k and was reduced to $46k before selling at... $45k?. Dealer's have their margins and stick to them. Finding out what they are is the fun part. 

Every seller has a different story that is hard to guess. Some get very ill and have to sell at any cost. Part of my job is reimbursing long term care medical bills so I have some idea of assets that get sold on when the worst happens. Some people are moving interstate, or overseas etc etc. 

If the owner of the $30k car even had a cursory glance at Carsales.com, then unless he was a bit IQ challenged, I have no idea why you would sell at that level. There's just no point unless you have a story that explains it. The car was never on the open market, so again. can't comment. 

[JWM]

Really great discussion on this thread.

One thing I'd add, we're all guilty at times of falling for the cognitive bias of "anchoring". Everyone does this, we all have some "shoulda bought it" bargain that we judge everything else against but it's not helpful. With that in mind @Plugger2 or anyone in the market should really discard any thought of the $30k Cayman S. Whatever the reason, it's definitely an outlier, a probably never to be repeated unicorn. Considering it just creates a pricing anchor against which every other car you consider seem too expensive to buy.

[911sies]

Really great discussion on this thread.

One thing I'd add, we're all guilty at times of falling for the cognitive bias of "anchoring". Everyone does this, we all have some "shoulda bought it" bargain that we judge everything else against but it's not helpful. With that in mind @Plugger2 or anyone in the market should really discard any thought of the $30k Cayman S. Whatever the reason, it's definitely an outlier, a probably never to be repeated unicorn. Considering it just creates a pricing anchor against which every other car you consider seem too expensive to buy.

True words. I enjoy these threads as they help everyone (me included) get a handle on where the market is at. The problem of course, is that even tracking cars on the multiple online sites, most of the final price discussion is anecdotal. 

You can bet that most people who list their cars on Carsales, save all the other one that are there, so they can track what's selling and at roughly how much. Apart from the ones that are clearly "The missus made me do it". Speaking of which, there's a nice 55,000km red "S" that I saved back in 2014!!. It was there until about September this year and finally sold......except it didn't. It's back with the same mileage and the same price. Go figure.

[CoSo]

I'm also keeping an eye on 987.2 prices. There's some nice Boxsters in the mid 50k mark which do not have IMS issues. 

Auto with sport chrono for example:

Check out this Porsche Boxster.
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Boxster-2011/SSE-AD-2729702

And a Perth Cayman auto for 60k (man Perth must be struggling, they all tend towards the lower price range for P cars out west)

Check out this Porsche Cayman.
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Cayman-2009/SSE-AD-4438294

The 987.2s are trending much closer in price between Boxster and Cayman. 

Give it a year and low $50k with the occasional $40k could be good buying. 

[Plugger2]

Really great discussion on this thread.

One thing I'd add, we're all guilty at times of falling for the cognitive bias of "anchoring". Everyone does this, we all have some "shoulda bought it" bargain that we judge everything else against but it's not helpful. With that in mind @Plugger2 or anyone in the market should really discard any thought of the $30k Cayman S. Whatever the reason, it's definitely an outlier, a probably never to be repeated unicorn. Considering it just creates a pricing anchor against which every other car you consider seem too expensive to buy.

Actually, currently my "anchor" is the $40-45K range for an Aus delivered 987.1 Cayman S manual, and that was the case before I read about the $30K sale in this thread. I've seen enough examples advertised that tick most of the boxes for me in this price range to convince me that I won't need to pay more than this to get a suitable car.

The new question that has occurred to me is where the market may be going over, say, the next 12 months or so. This is relevant to me, because I've only recently started looking, and I'm not in a great hurry. So while the $30K Cayman S looks like an outlier today, perhaps less so in 12 months time? I know it wasn't that long ago I wouldn't have believed some of the Boxster prices we are seeing today...

As for knowing what these cars are currently worth if selling to a dealer (I'm talking about a straight sale, not a trade-in), that strikes me as a very useful thing to know when negotiating or making an offer to a private seller. I would have thought that if the dealers are paying > $30K, no way even a "distressed seller" is going to accept $30K for their car. So that brings me back to the question: What are dealers currently paying for Cayman S manual 987.1 cars?

If no-one knows here actually knows the answer, or can offer insight on what sort of mark-up dealers have to make to maintain their margins to make the transaction worthwhile to them, fair enough, but it's got me wondering all the same, and perhaps something I need to separately investigate further.

[CoSo]

Actually, currently my "anchor" is the $40-45K range for an Aus delivered 987.1 Cayman S manual, and that was the case before I read about the $30K sale in this thread. I've seen enough examples advertised that tick most of the boxes for me in this price range to convince me that I won't need to pay more than this to get a suitable car.

The new question that has occurred to me is where the market may be going over, say, the next 12 months or so. This is relevant to me, because I've only recently started looking, and I'm not in a great hurry. So while the $30K Cayman S looks like an outlier today, perhaps less so in 12 months time? I know it wasn't that long ago I wouldn't have believed some of the Boxster prices we are seeing today...

As for knowing what these cars are currently worth if selling to a dealer (I'm talking about a straight sale, not a trade-in), that strikes me as a very useful thing to know when negotiating or making an offer to a private seller. I would have thought that if the dealers are paying > $30K, no way even a "distressed seller" is going to accept $30K for their car. So that brings me back to the question: What are dealers currently paying for Cayman S manual 987.1 cars?

If no-one knows here actually knows the answer, or can offer insight on what sort of mark-up dealers have to make to maintain their margins to make the transaction worthwhile, fair enough, but it's got me wondering all the same, and perhaps something I need to separately investigate further.

One thing I did forget to mention. 

I've also been perusing Cayman prices on Pickles, and often dealers will trade there. A 100,000 km, partial service record Cayman came up recently but wasn't hitting reserve at $35k. Not sure what it eventually did go for as it got listed a couple of times. 

I don't think margins are that good on 987s?

 

[911sies]

Actually, currently my "anchor" is the $40-45K range for an Aus delivered 987.1 Cayman S manual, and that was the case before I read about the $30K sale in this thread. I've seen enough example advertised that tick most of the boxes for me in this price range to convince me that I won't need to pay more than this to get a very suitable car.

The new question that has occurred to me is where the market may be going over, say, the next 12 months or so. This is relevant to me, because I've only recently started looking, and I'm not in a great hurry. So while the $30K Cayman S looks like an outlier today, perhaps less so in 12 months time? I know it wasn't that long ago I wouldn't have believed some of the Boxster prices we are seeing today...

As for knowing what these cars are currently worth if selling to a dealer (I'm talking about a straight sale, not a trade-in), that strikes me as a very useful thing to know when negotiating or making an offer to a private seller. I would have thought that if the dealers are paying > $30K, no way even a "distressed seller" is going to accept $30K for the car. So that brings me back to the question: What are dealers currently paying for Cayman S manual 987.1 cars?

If no-one knows here actually knows the answer, or can offer insight on what sort of mark-up dealers have to make to maintain their margins to make the transaction worthwhile, fair enough, but it's got me wondering all the same, and perhaps something I need to separately investigate further.

A straight sale will likely net you less than a trade in. Dealers will either make you feel like a winner on a trade-in value, and then not move on the car you're buying or vice versa. With a straight sale, all they're looking at is their margin on your car. A hypothetical $30k offer from a dealer, and then a sticker price of say...$45k would mean a dealer would be making a 50% mark up!!. Not happening. Dealer margins are way narrower than that, and probably nearer to 10-15%. The lower the value of the car, the harder it is for the dealer to flip it at a decent percentage. 

The only way you're going to get someone to answer your question on what a dealer will offer is if you know a dealer that will tell you, or if someone on here has done it. It's not the most lucrative way to sell your car, and most of us here are enthusiasts and would not go down that route. I'm interested to know what you find out if you go and investigate it. 

Back to the Cayman prices in general. I would ask what it is about the car that makes you want one, and not a Boxster. Boxster's are way more numerous, and therefore easier to pick up a bargain and you're getting a similar experience (sans roof). Whatever the reasons are for you not considering a Boxster (I have mine), how many more people out there share similar reasons?. If there are enough people out there, then the supply will not keep up and the prices will reflect that.  

I would love to know what the market will do in 12 months!. If you're right, then you have a year to keep adding to your savings, and you'll bag a Porsche for a bargain. My error started in 2012 when I did the exact same thing with my previous dream. I was after a 964 when you could find them for $50-$60k. Nobody was talking them up at that stage, and I got to see them climb out of my range. Hugely disappointing, but hey, I got my Cayman as a result!. 

[Plugger2]

A hypothetical $30k offer from a dealer, and then a sticker price of say...$45k would mean a dealer would be making a 50% mark up!!. Not happening. Dealer margins are way narrower than that, and probably nearer to 10-15%. The lower the value of the car, the harder it is for the dealer to flip it at a decent percentage.

Of course, that hypothetical $15K markup is not all profit -- you have to deduct the costs associated with prep for sale, the fact they have to provide a statutory warranty, and of course the general overheads of running the business. By the time you've done that, you may well be down to your (real) 10-15% margin. They must buy cheap (and well), and sell dear to stay in business. The question is: How cheap? According to CoSo, $35K for an auto non-S 987.1 Cayman looks like it's too dear for the dealers. More data required.

[Plugger2]

 

Back to the Cayman prices in general. I would ask what it is about the car that makes you want one, and not a Boxster. Boxster's are way more numerous, and therefore easier to pick up a bargain and you're getting a similar experience (sans roof). Whatever the reasons are for you not considering a Boxster (I have mine), how many more people out there share similar reasons?. If there are enough people out there, then the supply will not keep up and the prices will reflect that.  

I would love to know what the market will do in 12 months!. If you're right, then you have a year to keep adding to your savings, and you'll bag a Porsche for a bargain. My error started in 2012 when I did the exact same thing with my previous dream. I was after a 964 when you could find them for $50-$60k. Nobody was talking them up at that stage, and I got to see them climb out of my range. Hugely disappointing, but hey, I got my Cayman as a result!. 

I've just never found the Boxsters as attractive as the Cayman, pretty much as simple as that. The Cayman shape makes me go "wow", the Boxster is "meh". I appreciate they are essentially the same car, but to me, some cars just look better as hardtops or ragtops -- rarely do I like a model in both variants equally. Coupled with the fact that a ragtop is not as attractive a proposition when living in Qld anyway!

If I saw any evidence that the Cayman market was appreciating, I'd certainly be more motivated to pull the trigger sooner rather than later. But at the moment, all the evidence is weighted in the other direction, so I feel I have a bit of time to study the market and generally do my homework. Time will tell.

[911sies]

I've just never found the Boxsters as attractive as the Cayman, pretty much as simple as that. The Cayman shape makes me go "wow", the Boxster is "meh". I appreciate they are essentially the same car, but to me, some cars just look better as hardtops or ragtops -- rarely do I like a model in both variants equally. Coupled with the fact that a ragtop is not as attractive a proposition when living in Qld anyway!

If I saw any evidence that the Cayman market was appreciating, I'd certainly be more motivated to pull the trigger sooner rather than later. But at the moment, all the evidence is weighted in the other direction, so I feel I have a bit of time to study the market and generally do my homework. Time will tell.

Yours and my reasons stack the same. Boxsters are great cars, but you're either a Boxster person or you're not. There is actually a small power hike (tiny) on the Cayman over the Boxster in 987 vintage, but nothing you'd notice. Drive both though, and they really do feel different, 

[Apogee]

Yours and my reasons stack the same. Boxsters are great cars, but you're either a Boxster person or you're not. There is actually a small power hike (tiny) on the Cayman over the Boxster in 987 vintage, but nothing you'd notice. Drive both though, and they really do feel different

I got my 987.1 Boxster S because it felt more raw/visceral  than the 987.2 Cayman that a friend owned and let me drive. I had dismissed the Boxster initially because I thought it would be too refined based on the test drive in my friend's Cayman. With the roof down and a fabspeed exhaust installed. I could enjoy the crackle and pop of the engine in downshifts and the flat 6 whine on acceleration - something I couldn't experience in the Cayman even with the windows down. One test drive and I was hooked.  

[911sies]

I got my 987.1 Boxster S because it felt more raw/visceral  than the 987.2 Cayman that a friend owned and let me drive. I had dismissed the Boxster initially because I thought it would be too refined based on the test drive in my friend's Cayman. With the roof down and a fabspeed exhaust installed. I could enjoy the crackle and pop of the engine in downshifts and the flat 6 whine on acceleration - something I couldn't experience in the Cayman even with the windows down. One test drive and I was hooked.  

That engine firing into your ears with no roof is good enough reason!, especially with a Fabspeed. Different tastes make the world go round, and a good thing that is to. We'd all be driving Hyundai Excels!

[Niko]

Going from the Boxster S (986 tiptronic) to the Cayman S (987.2 6 speed) really was like chalk and cheese.  

I know they are different models 986/987 nd maybe the comparison is a tad unfair for the Box.

But I have to say I really enjoyed the Box, and as you say, it is pretty hard to replicate a roof down with a nice exhaust note especially in the mountains doing the twisties.    

Even with the tip, you get used to it's gear change attitude and the power and handling.   It was sensational.  nearly 8 years of ownership and it really was very reliable, and keeping it serviced properly etc it virtually never missed a beat.   I treated it very well but didn't hold back when on SMT's and the like.

But moving into the Croc, wow, I this thing hangs on even better and it's not just tyres, I had great tyres on the Box (Yokohama ADO8's)

Certainly the power upgrade is a boost (3.2 to 3.4) and the 6 speed is just smooth as, and so easy to swap gears.

I know I am going a lot quicker in the Croc.   I miss the roof down, and the noise, but the Cayman really does tick all the boxes for me.

I love the shape, it's got the heritage 911 silhouette, albeit modernised, and when you stand back and look at it, it just is perfect styling.  

It's like a 1966 Mustang, that thing looks as good today as it did back then (and I hate Fords)   The croc is always going to look sensational.

But in the end, they are both great porkers.   The price of the earlier Boxster's now are fantastic bang for your buck.

Personal choice though.... roof or no roof...either way your getting something special.

 

  

[911sies]

There really should be a Cayman Prices thread in the usual forum, but in the meantime, the blue Cayman S auto that was mentioned a while back (seller deleted their photos and then listed it as "Sold")...is back!, 

It regained its photos, and went from $38,000 to $41,999, and then back to $38,900 within a couple of hours. No idea what is going on there, unless the owner is all fingers and thumbs on the keyboard. 

987 Cayman S, Auto - Cobalt Blue

Usual lazy description (Carsales auto-fill), and no mention of history. That is one pretty colour though. 

 

[Plugger2]

There really should be a Cayman Prices thread in the usual forum, but in the meantime, the blue Cayman S auto that was mentioned a while back (seller deleted their photos and then listed it as "Sold")...is back!, 

It regained its photos, and went from $38,000 to $41,999, and then back to $38,900 within a couple of hours. No idea what is going on there, unless the owner is all fingers and thumbs on the keyboard. 

987 Cayman S, Auto - Cobalt Blue

Usual lazy description (Carsales auto-fill), and no mention of history. That is one pretty colour though. 

 

Let's see... $35, $38, $42 and now $39. I think it's safe to say he's not firm on price!

[D2000]

 

As for knowing what these cars are currently worth if selling to a dealer (I'm talking about a straight sale, not a trade-in), that strikes me as a very useful thing to know when negotiating or making an offer to a private seller. I would have thought that if the dealers are paying > $30K, no way even a "distressed seller" is going to accept $30K for their car. So that brings me back to the question: What are dealers currently paying for Cayman S manual 987.1 cars?

If no-one knows here actually knows the answer, or can offer insight on what sort of mark-up dealers have to make to maintain their margins to make the transaction worthwhile to them, fair enough, but it's got me wondering all the same, and perhaps something I need to separately investigate further.

There is actually one way.  When you create an ad on carsales for your car it gives you an "Instant Offer" (or something similar) option whereby it will arrange a sale to a dealer for you and gives you a price (based on assumptions about length of registration) etc.  At least that is what happened when I sold my BMW.  The price was not unreasonable, but was substantially less than I got and I think I could have sold it in a heart beat at the instant offer price on the private market.  So anyone who is/has listed their car on carsales can no doubt share if they want

[sandy468]

Let's see... $35, $38, $42 and now $39. I think it's safe to say he's not firm on price!

I think it's safe to say he's reducing then raising his price (by 3% apparantly needed to send a notification) each time to send a message to the watchers "hey hello I'm still here" It's pretty well known sellers do that....

[CoSo]

Let's see... $35, $38, $42 and now $39. I think it's safe to say he's not firm on price!

Back to $42k again...

[Plugger2]

Back to $42k again...

Dopamine imbalance?

[JWM]

Dopamine imbalance?

Maybe it's a new kind of high frequency carsales trading strategy? 

[Plugger2]

The car is in Coolum Beach, just south of Noosa. The seller's first name is Feross. If his last name is Oxhide, I'd be concerned.

[Diggin]

POS head unit is enough to put me off. Not that I want it.

[911sies]

POS head unit is enough to put me off. Not that I want it.

Does look a bit pants. I suspect it allows music streaming etc. I got a hidden Mobridge box that allows you to use your phone on Bluetooth for calls and music. Keeps the original PCM unit and looks a bit more original.

Another S popped up today on Carsales. That's 6 manual 987.1 S models (manual) and the first NSW one for a while. 

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Cayman-2006/SSE-AD-4455525

 

 

[CoSo]

POS head unit is enough to put me off. Not that I want it.

I don't recall liking this post but you're not wrong... it just looks weirdly out of place.