Cayman S Bargain of the year

[Plugger2]

Another S popped up today on Carsales.

There do seem to be quite a few 987.1 coming on at the moment. Not many of the 987.2 though, and the ones that do come on are significantly dearer. I wonder if that's just because they are a few years younger, or whether the IMS issue (real or imagined) is the differentiator here?

If it is the IMS issue, that would suggest the 987.2 should hold is value reasonably well. OTOH, if it's purely age and mileage, that would suggest the 987.2 are still at a stage of fairly rapid depreciation over the next few years. Be interesting to watch to see how this plays out.

Speaking of depreciation, here's a 1998 manual Boxster for $12K that's just come on. Looks quite decent at that price if you were in the market for a 2.5L Boxster:

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Boxster-1998/SSE-AD-191747/?Cr=0

The red 2006 manual Cayman S in Vic has dropped his asking to $43K, perhaps in response to Mr Consistency's cobalt blue auto S now at $42 (well, for the last 24 hours or so anyway.)

[Plugger2]

The range of asking prices in the manual  987.1 S models is $43-75K. The mileage range is 27,800-144,000kms. Putting the cars in order of mileage shows a monotonic increase in the asking price. Interesting -- would you expect the price of these cars to be so sensitive to mileage? If we were talking about Toyotas or Hyundais, I'd understand. But mechanically speaking, 150,000kms is nothing on a well-maintained P-car!

[Peter M]

......If it is the IMS issue, that would suggest the 987.2 should hold is value reasonably well. OTOH, if it's purely age and mileage, that would suggest the 987.2 are still at a stage of fairly rapid depreciation over the next few years.

My observation with the 2's is the they are following the same rate of depreciation as the 1's because the rapid depreciation of the 981's is pushing 'em down.

Did enjoy your reference to monotonic BTW

[scashin]

Loving this thread!  Subscribed

987.2 with a manual are hens teeth

S

[Apogee]

Loving this thread!  Subscribed

987.2 with a manual are hens teeth

S

probably bec most people opted for PDK when they came out.

[Niko]

Loving this thread!  Subscribed

987.2 with a manual are hens teeth

S

and they are sensational. 

[Plugger2]

987.2 with a manual are hens teeth

There two for sale on carsales at the moment, asking $73K and $85K.

[scashin]

There two for sale on carsales at the moment, asking $73K and $85K.

Rarer then 3.2's, GT3's, 930 - they are a dime a dozen

[911sies]

The range of asking prices in the manual  987.1 S models is $43-75K. The mileage range is 27,800-144,000kms. Putting the cars in order of mileage shows a monotonic increase in the asking price. Interesting -- would you expect the price of these cars to be so sensitive to mileage? If we were talking about Toyotas or Hyundais, I'd understand. But mechanically speaking, 150,000kms is nothing on a well-maintained P-car!

Agreed. Plenty of US 987s on 160,000kms-plus, many of those track cars and with no mention of IMS. Other track related things crop up (AOS, power steering, cooling), but otherwise pretty reliable. 

The only sensitivity to mileage would be things like the clutch/flywheel. Red one had it done, so that's good. Otherwise you can add $4k to the price you paid, a short time after the purchase. 

As usual, buy on condition and history. 

 

 

[Plugger2]

Here's a 2006 manual Cayman S with 69,400km on the odo for $47K asking -- dealer rather than private sale as well.

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/invermay/cars-vans-utes/2006-porsche-cayman-coupe/1124534976

Exterior looks OK, although personally I'm a bit indifferent on the silver, but the interior looks like its got a suede leather thing going on -- was that an option?

Generally, the interior looks like it needs detailing, but that's no big deal. Big spoiler a bit lairy, but that's also a matter of taste. I'm not sure if it's the suede contrast, but the interior (dash etc.) looks more plastic-y than usual in this one.

The dealer is in Launceston. If it was a bit closer. I'd definitely have a look. Will be interesting to see what dealers prices are like generally for the 987 manual S cars going forward.

Interesting the choice to advertise on Gumtree rather than carsales.

 

 

[LeeM]

Here's a 2006 manual Cayman S with 69,400km on the odo for $47K asking -- dealer rather than private sale as well.

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/invermay/cars-vans-utes/2006-porsche-cayman-coupe/1124534976

Exterior looks OK, although personally I'm a bit indifferent on the silver, but the interior looks like its got a suede leather thing going on -- was that an option?

Generally, the interior looks like it needs detailing, but that's no big deal. Big spolier a bit lairy, but that's also a matter of taste. I'm not sure if it's the suede contrast

Interesting the choice to advertise on Gumtree rather than carsales.

 

 

It's been advertised for a wile now. Accident damaged repair job I'm told by a mate that was looking at it.

And that's Alcantara inserts in the seats etc

[Peter M]

I could easily live with that.  The darker silver on the wheels and the black side vents makes the difference.

Makes a compelling proposition to just buy and drive, drive and drive.

[Niko]

I think it may have been lowered a tad too.....

Certainly a good price....reasonable K's.

I'd still get a PPI on it, just in case it has the ring thrashed out of it...

[Plugger2]

 

It's been advertised for a wile now. Accident damaged repair job I'm told by a mate that was looking at it.

And that's Alcantara inserts in the seats etc

If it's actually found its way onto the WOVR, then I'd suggest it's _way_ overpriced.

Thanks for clarifying on the Alcantara. At least I know I don't like that as an option!

 

[LeeM]

Thanks for clarifying on the Alcantara. At least I know I don't like that as an option!

 

  An expensive option too! 

[CoSo]

Here's a 2006 manual Cayman S with 69,400km on the odo for $47K asking -- dealer rather than private sale as well.

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/invermay/cars-vans-utes/2006-porsche-cayman-coupe/1124534976

Exterior looks OK, although personally I'm a bit indifferent on the silver, but the interior looks like its got a suede leather thing going on -- was that an option?

Generally, the interior looks like it needs detailing, but that's no big deal. Big spoiler a bit lairy, but that's also a matter of taste. I'm not sure if it's the suede contrast, but the interior (dash etc.) looks more plastic-y than usual in this one.

The dealer is in Launceston. If it was a bit closer. I'd definitely have a look. Will be interesting to see what dealers prices are like generally for the 987 manual S cars going forward.

Interesting the choice to advertise on Gumtree rather than carsales.

Have been watching this car the first time it was posted a few months ago. 

Have spoken with the dealer and it's a repaired write off. 

Shame because it's otherwise near perfect in my opinion.

Being a repaired write off I wouldn't offer anywhere near what the dealer is asking.

[Plugger2]

Have spoken with the dealer and it's a repaired write off.

I'm really amazed this isn't mentioned anywhere in the listing. I would have thought it was a legal requirement, at least for a licensed dealer.

I wouldn't touch a WOVR car with a barge pole, personally. Unless I was never intending to sell -- just too much hassle, imho. (OK, well maybe if the car was *exactly* what I was looking for, and the price was about 50% of what I'd expect to pay for a non-WOVR car, then I might think about it.)

Maybe this explains why it's advertised on gumtree and not carsales? Perhaps gumtree has a laxer attitude regarding not mentioning the small matter of a car being on WOVR?

In any case, not the bargain of this year... or any year. Next!

[LeeM]

  They do have a duty to disclose it as far as I'm aware. Not sure if they have to tell you that in an advertisement.  My mate rang and they told him straight up it was a repaired car

[mikefocke]

There are degrees of damage when in an accident. Been in two in my Boxsters. First the car was a total insurance write-off even though it was drive able and I thought it could be repaired. They stopped counting 4k$ higher than I paid for it.  Second accident was a minor "sh slid in to me" and the bumper structure and bumper were repaired so you absolutely couldn't tell. Ni panel damage, no electrical damage no spoiler damage. No repaint.

 So which qualifies as a WOFR in the land of OZ?

[MFX]

There are degrees of damage when in an accident. Been in two in my Boxsters. First the car was a total insurance write-off even though it was drive able and I thought it could be repaired. They stopped counting 4k$ higher than I paid for it.  Second accident was a minor "sh slid in to me" and the bumper structure and bumper were repaired so you absolutely couldn't tell. Ni panel damage, no electrical damage no spoiler damage. No repaint.

 So which qualifies as a WOFR in the land of OZ?

If you have an accident in your own car and get it repaired (no matter how bad). It is not registered on th WOVR. But sometime for what ever reason. The owner doesn't want their car back after a small bingle it goes to auction and is put on the WOVR. 

[Plugger2]

There are degrees of damage when in an accident. Been in two in my Boxsters. First the car was a total insurance write-off even though it was drive able and I thought it could be repaired. They stopped counting 4k$ higher than I paid for it.  Second accident was a minor "sh slid in to me" and the bumper structure and bumper were repaired so you absolutely couldn't tell. Ni panel damage, no electrical damage no spoiler damage. No repaint.

 So which qualifies as a WOFR in the land of OZ?

WOVR (written-off vehicle register).

A car's VIN gets on the register once it has been written-off by an insurance company. There are two classes of write-off: repairable and non-repairable (aka a statutory write-off). A repairable car can legally be repaired and reregistered for road use in Australia; a non-repairable car can never again be registered, and can only be used for parts, etc.

A repairable write-off might be a car which has been hail damaged, but the cost of repairs would have cost more than the insured value at the time of the insurance claim. A non-repairable write-off might have involved a car where the strength and integrity of the body structure was compromised in an accident, or (interestingly) a car which was affected by flood. Apparently, in the later case, because of the potential on-going long-term electrical issues with corrosion in the wiring, etc., the various authorities have deemed that flood affected write-offs are off the road for good.

The problem with buying a car that has been legally repaired but has found its way onto the WOVR (as in the case of the Tasmanian Cayman) is that the WOVR status will always come up on a title/VIN search whenever you are trying to sell the car, and many buyers will not want to know any more about the car, and the few who do will expect a very substantial discount because of the WOVR status. Fairly or unfairly, it's a stigma that never leaves the car, and has a major material affect on a car's resale value. Which is why the dealer in Tasmania has a very over-priced vehicle he is trying to sell.

Buyers beware.

 

If you have an accident in your own car and get it repaired (no matter how bad). It is not registered on th WOVR. But sometime for what ever reason. The owner doesn't want their car back after a small bingle it goes to auction and is put on the WOVR. 

A "small bingle" won't do it (except in the case of very low-value cars). The estimated cost of the repairs by the insurance company has to exceed the insured value of the vehicle for it be a write-off.

So a $2000 repair estimate on car worth $1000 makes it a write-off. But a $20,000 repair estimate on a car worth $30,000 isn't a write-off, and *won't* appear on WOVR. Whether the owner wants the car back or not after the repair has nothing to do with it.

 

[Niko]

Nicely explained Plugger....

[TrevMcRev]

So a $2000 repair estimate on car worth $1000 makes it a write-off. But a $20,000 repair estimate on a car worth $30,000 isn't a write-off, and *won't* appear on WOVR. Whether the owner wants the car back or not after the repair has nothing to do with it.

 

Wouldn't the salvage value come into it though?

If it's a $20k repair on a $30K car that they could possibly get greater than $10K salvage for then the insurance co would be in front to write it off than repair it.

The cost to do quality repairs on expensive cars such as Porsche can mean it doesn't take much to economically not be worth the insurance co's while to repair.  Gotta keep in mind that cost of parts are often relative to the cost of these cars being $100-200-300K cars.  And just because they have depreciated to $50-75-150K cars doesn't mean they have gotten any cheaper to repair.

[MFX]

WOVR (written-off vehicle register).

A car's VIN gets on the register once it has been written-off by an insurance company. There are two classes of write-off: repairable and non-repairable (aka a statutory write-off). A repairable car can legally be repaired and reregistered for road use in Australia; a non-repairable car can never again be registered, and can only be used for parts, etc.

A repairable write-off might be a car which has been hail damaged, but the cost of repairs would have cost more than the insured value at the time of the insurance claim. A non-repairable write-off might have involved a car where the strength and integrity of the body structure was compromised in an accident, or (interestingly) a car which was affected by flood. Apparently, in the later case, because of the potential on-going long-term electrical issues with corrosion in the wiring, etc., the various authorities have deemed that flood affected write-offs are off the road for good.

The problem with buying a car that has been legally repaired but has found its way onto the WOVR (as in the case of the Tasmanian Cayman) is that the WOVR status will always come up on a title/VIN search whenever you are trying to sell the car, and many buyers will not want to know any more about the car, and the few who do will expect a very substantial discount because of the WOVR status. Fairly or unfairly, it's a stigma that never leaves the car, and has a major material affect on a car's resale value. Which is why the dealer in Tasmania has a very over-priced vehicle he is trying to sell.

Buyers beware.

 

A "small bingle" won't do it (except in the case of very low-value cars). The estimated cost of the repairs by the insurance company has to exceed the insured value of the vehicle for it be a write-off.

So a $2000 repair estimate on car worth $1000 makes it a write-off. But a $20,000 repair estimate on a car worth $30,000 isn't a write-off, and *won't* appear on WOVR. Whether the owner wants the car back or not after the repair has nothing to do with it.

 

You are absolutely correct in theory. In practice I have seen a heap of cars at the auctions which have damage much less than the cars value, hence the fact that so many people will buy cars at the auctions for vast sums and still repair them (as I have done myself in the past) and still sell them for a profit. 

I have seen $30k cars with approximately $5k worth of damage frequently written off. It doesn't make sense to me, but the fact is they were still at the auctions.... 

i will also add that this is all from 5-10 years ago and now the rules are different in NSW so things may have changed. 

[Plugger2]

You are absolutely correct in theory. In practice I have seen a heap of cars at the auctions which have damage much less than the cars value, hence the fact that so many people will buy cars at the auctions for vast sums and still repair them (as I have done myself in the past) and still sell them for a profit. 

I have seen $30k cars with approximately $5k worth of damage frequently written off. It doesn't make sense to me, but the fact is they were still at the auctions.... 

i will also add that this is all from 5-10 years ago and now the rules are different in NSW so things may have changed. 

Two things: 1) Just because a car is at an auction doesn't mean it's been written off by an insc. company. 2) Even if a car is an insc. write-off, your cost estimate of repairing the vehicle may vary from the that of the insc. company when it was written off. Consider the difference in the cost of a first-class repair that uses all new, genuine parts, and an "economy" repair that uses aftermarket or used parts, for example. And then there is the labour/workmanship aspect of it. The cost estimates can vary wildly, as will the ultimate quality of the repair. Which is another reason, when you think of it, why someone might avoid a car on WOVR that has been repaired and returned to the road: What quality of repair was ultimately done here? The insc. company couldn't/wouldn't repair it to save it being a write-off, but *someone* has decided to repair it -- obviously at less cost. How much less? One might wonder...

That's just one of the reasons why most people will take one look at at a WOVR vehicle and simply say "too hard -- next...."