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Cayman S Bargain of the year

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Moving back on topic a bit more, perhaps, here's a car that's just come up on Carsales:

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Cayman-2006/SSE-AD-4479534/?Cr=0

Looks quite nice, 2006 Cayman S, 78000km, automatic 5 speed, $40K asking.

Too bad it's an auto, or I might be interested to investigate a bit further. But asking price is interesting. I am expecting more and more cars to be appearing around the $40K level this year -- I wonder if it will be commonplace by the end of 2017 to see the asking prices for decent example 986.1 Cayman S in the mid-high $30K range?

 

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  That's always my 'argument' with hot hatch/WRX/EVO owners. They say their car will eat a Cayman for breakfast which is fair enough if they can, though looking back at your car and seeing a Porsche, or a car that you would go shopping/pick kids up in, which one would you prefer to see? 

 On another note: I see that Blue 07 Cayman went up by 3 grand to $38k

While searching for the length of conrods in 3.4's I came across this nice write up of the highs and lows of owning a base 987.1 for 6 years.  Worth a read for us Cayman virgins: http://juansolo.co.uk/motas/porker.html

 

Have been looking for exactly this - a long term write up on a base 2.7. Thank you.

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Wow!  Lotta car for $39k

Be interesting to have a closer look to see if the price is the result of a soft market or an engine about to shit itself or it's just due for a clutch kit or something else.

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Major maintenance more than likely, its 11 years old (and 90k kms). Drive belt, and probably clutch due as well on top of soft market. From what you can see in the photos both paint condition and interior condition not exactly great. Probably a few factors at play here.

http://porschedata.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/2005-2007_911_Major.pdf

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pricing the clutch separately if possible, what sort of money would this service cost at an independent?  Anyone have an idea??

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Well, if it was in Brissie, I'd go and look at it.  Anyone know who the dealer is?

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Dealer is Thompson Ford, Parramatta in Sydney.

 

The car plugger2 mentioned in the post above was about the same - eventually had a $37k asking price and had just under 100k on the odo.  I'd be keen to find out what it would cost to do the major service on one of these.

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Dealer is Thompson Ford, Parramatta in Sydney.

 

The car plugger2 mentioned in the post above was about the same - eventually had a $37k asking price and had just under 100k on the odo.  I'd be keen to find out what it would cost to do the major service on one of these.

You're in Sydney by the looks so ring Autohaus or BWA (or both) and get an estimate.

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yes, I am going to do this Sleazius, I was also hoping someone else may have experienced what it was in the real world if for nothing else but to confirm the theoretical workshop estimates.

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If you go and look at it, let us know what it's like?

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pricing the clutch separately if possible, what sort of money would this service cost at an independent?  Anyone have an idea??

I have picked up from conversations that the price would be anywhere around 4 to 6K which seems a lot to me, but I can't confirm that.

I have priced a clutch kit from Pelican and they are about $727.00 (U.S.D. and that is a SACHS kit who are OEM suppliers to PORSCHE)

the freight on "slow boat to China" (USPS) rates  $100.50 (USD)   There are cheaper clutch kits so I have quoted what I think is the best and dearest.

The car has been obviously neglected, in all visual aspects, which makes me wonder about the mechanicals.

BUT... pretty good price.   Normal advice applies.   PPI from P dealer or good independent.   

Definitely worth a look though. 

 

Edited by Niko

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 The only downside to buying your own parts, is that the garage that does the work have no obligation to give you a warranty on them. Work done, yes, but not the parts which is fair enough to me

 I looked at buying my own parts when I had my 912 engine rebuilt, yet was advised the above, and decided the best course of action was to pay a bit more for a full warranty and peace of mind

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Have to agree there Lee. That way there will be no blur between parts and workmanship cause if there is a problem.

Although my circumstances would allow me to do the clutch myself.

I'm sure some people are sh1t at paint and interior care but not neglect the mechanical area's but I think I'd need strong evidence to be convinced or get a great price and deal with it. 

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The car has been obviously neglected, in all visual aspects, which makes me wonder about the mechanicals.

Just curious what visual aspects you were picking up on in particular?

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Based on my conversation with the dealer....The car was traded on a Ford Ranger but is not their usual goods for sale.  I asked about the condition and suggested it looked a little neglected - he said the paint is in good condition, it's the photos that are showing sun glint etc. It has a service history (but he couldn't recall if dealer or otherwise). Priced keenly to sell.

 

In terms of conversations with mechanics....

BWA
-PPI $320 (plus a compression test for $220 if you decide to plus an oil and filter change if you want to check for IMS shavings)
-clutch and flywheel is just under $3k fitted
-major service is $1k inc belts (60k kms, 120k kms etc)
-minor service is $520
-IMS is approx $4.2k (2700 parts and 1500 labour) but is normally done with clutch if the car is a manual

Other points:
-IMS failure while rare to fail and destroy engine, it is a real issue and will impact all pre 2010 cars because they all have an IMS so it will need to be fixed
-gearboxes on Cayman and Boxsters are known to fail (I can't recall everything about it but it involved the some shaft or bearing at each end, selectors and a pinion gear)
-cars must be driven regularly and engines to get hot to avoid moisture related issues.  Many of these cars are not driven enough to avoid the issues.
-unlikely to get 275k kms out of a Cayman or Boxster without significant issues and costs (this was in response to me telling him of my Evo hitting 275k kms and still going really strongly without too much fuss)

AutoWerks
-PPI $390 (plus a compression test if so desired)
-major service is $1.2k
-clutch and IMS solution is approx $4k fitted
-brakes circa $250 per corner

other points:
-good service history is a must, atleast yearly oil changes
-low km cars are likely to have more issues due to not getting hot enough a lot of the time
-gearbox is sealed for life but suggests to get oil changed (circa $200 plus labour)
-the IMS solution 'bearing' also has a limited life (recommended by manufacturer) of approx 50k kms so at least some of the solution will need to be redone again, although he suspects that it's life could be doubled to 100k kms

 

It's raining heavily in Sydney at the moment, so a visit to see the car which is not under cover needs to be done when weather is more suitable.

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Just curious what visual aspects you were picking up on in particular?

As per below, the photos to me indicate a poorly maintained paint surface, with lots of swirls etc,  and the wheels look like they are marked or have gravel rash.

But if the conversation that Jakroo has had with the dealer is correct then the photos may be doing it an injustice.    Be interested to hear what it is like in the flesh.

Still a good price though, and even if it is down a bit on paintwork, as long as most other stuff is reasonable, would definitely be worth going to the PPI as the next step.

 

 

Based on my conversation with the dealer....The car was traded on a Ford Ranger but is not their usual goods for sale.  I asked about the condition and suggested it looked a little neglected - he said the paint is in good condition, it's the photos that are showing sun glint etc. It has a service history (but he couldn't recall if dealer or otherwise). Priced keenly to sell.

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In terms of conversations with mechanics....

BWA

-IMS is approx $4.2k (2700 parts and 1500 labour) but is normally done with clutch if the car is a manual

 

AutoWerks

-clutch and IMS solution is approx $4k fitted

-the IMS solution 'bearing' also has a limited life (recommended by manufacturer) of approx 50k kms so at least some of the solution will need to be redone again, although he suspects that it's life could be doubled to 100k kms

A bit of a concern is that it seems these mechanics have no idea what they are dealing with here.

For these "M97" engines, unlike the earlier Boxster engines, the IMS bearing can't be replaced while doing a clutch job. It is an engine out, case split job -- much more involved in terms of time and expense.

The upside is that the IMS bearing failure is much rarer compared to the earlier engines.

The downside is there is no easy prophylactic fix as with the earlier engines.

This is all reasonably common knowledge for anyone who has done any reading at all on these cars. In the MY09 Caymans they introduced the "9A1" engines that finally eliminated the IMS design completely.

When you get advice like this, I suspect you are much better off doing your own work on the car!

Edited by Plugger2

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This article from AutoHaus Hamilton suggests that some Cayman's do have an IMS, and they can be treated proactively for bearing failure... http://autohaushamilton.com.au/news/ims-bearing-the-facts-made-simple

WHAT PORSCHE MODELS ARE PRONE TO IMS FAILURE AND SHOULD BE REPLACED? 

-   All 986 Boxster models.
-   987 Cayman & Boxster models up to engine number 61504715
-   All 996 models (not including: GT and Turbo models) 
-   997 3.6ltr with M96/05 up to engine number 6950745

but then from further down in the article:

One attempt at extending the life of the original IMS bearing removing the grease seals off the factory intermediate shaft bearings for years to better improve their lubrication and cooling, as is the case with model year 2006 through 2008 engines, as that’s the only preventative measure that can be taken that is cost effective as the other option is to tear down the engine completely to access the intermediate shaft, for which upgraded IMS bearings are available for installation at this point.

 

So given this particular car is a 2006 (engine number would need to be verified to be outside of range noted in the article), what you're saying plugger2 is that there is no product replacement 'solution' available for this car which is what this article also says.  But if one had the money and inclination, one could pull it down and make the grease seals change..... 

 

No wonder regular people get confused, the professionals (AH, BWA and AW) also appear to be confused.

Edited by jakroo

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This article from AutoHaus Hamilton suggests that some Cayman's do have an IMS, and they can be treated proactively for bearing failure... http://autohaushamilton.com.au/news/ims-bearing-the-facts-made-simple

The article is misleading in that there were very few Caymans that were delivered without the newer M97 engines (none were delivered in the US, and I wouldn't be surprised none in Australia either. Check the engine no if you want to be certain.)

But if you don't believe me (and why should you?) I'd strongly encourage you to do your own research. It's all out there...

 

Edited by Plugger2

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Yes, I'll ask the dealer when I get a chance to see the car.

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Yep, agree with Plugger. 

After a lot of research, my take is either buy a M96 engined car and treat the IMS as a replaceable item.

Get a M97 car, run it till it breaks, then go hunting for a 3.8 or 4.0 engine to swap

or buy one of the later 2009 onward MA120/121 engined cars.

The 2006-2009 Boxster/Caymans could be really exxy cars to own, compared to the cost of the initial buy-in.

 

Edited by Daz7

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In regards to condition the paint looks poor in at least 1 of the photos, there is visible gravel rash on the rims (or it looks like it) and the interior has not been looked after. I don't even know how you get a steering wheel that worn with those kms. Sandpaper for hands?

In my experience there is no such thing as a 'bargain used car' from any dealer. Just cars that need a lot of additional work (maintenance) with some lipstick on them to move them on.

Alarm bell number 1 - guy traded a Porsche for a ute.

Alarm bell number 2 - its priced significantly under market.

Alarm bell number 3 - it is at major service time (12 years) and also belt time (90k kms).

Alarm bell number 4 - doesn't look like its been cared for.

Could be a good car, just need to go in with eyes wide open.

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or buy one of the later 2009 onward MA120/121 engined cars

 

And there's the rub.  At this point in time, the cheapest one (MY2010+) on Carsales is approx $70k which is a looooong way from the $40k of the particular car in question....

Daz7 - If you want a Cayman, then the M96 engine doesn't appear to be an option unless it was a very early 2006 as from what I've read, most people are of the understanding that Cayman (987) use M97 engines.

 

And yes, Sleazius, there are lots of alarm bells ringing.  I'm only interested from a curiosity perspective (I want a different colour than black or silver) but I'll make the effort to go and see the car so at least I have something to use as a benchmark.  There's a red one that looks good, and is in the ballpark https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/_/SSE-AD-2549618 of similar ones.  A 2009 2.9l auto box sold recently for $54k

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