Cayman S Bargain of the year

[Plugger2]

Alarm bell number 2 - its priced significantly under market..

I have to disagree with this one --- I've been watching the market for some months now, and there have been a few sales now where the asking price for the S models was under the $40K mark, and I see no reason for that trend not to continue for the rest of this year at least.

So, my take is that those *not* selling on carsales are significantly *over* market.

I suspect the prices of the Caymans are inexorably being dragged lower by the gravitational pull downward of Boxster prices.

The good news is that, according to our PM, it has never been a better time to be a Cayman buyer!

[Niko]

Red one looks good Jakroo...reasonable K's and fair price too,.. IMHO

[jakroo]

yes Niko, it does look the goods....it is north of Cairns though....

[D2000]

yes Niko, it does look the goods....it is north of Cairns though....

that red one has been on the market for over a year. Not sure why

[jakroo]

maybe too far away for most people to check out etc...too much money given that situation....

[Niko]

yes Niko, it does look the goods....it is north of Cairns though....

that red one has been on the market for over a year. Not sure why

maybe too far away for most people to check out etc...too much money given that situation....

you could always organise a PPI over the phone.  Mate of mine bought one from a WA yard last year, sight unseen .  Yard took it to Porsche centre in Perth and they gave it a clean bill of health.   Had it shipped to MELB, and the are now living happily ever after.

if it's been on the market for over a year, you'd reckon the seller would get if there for you/him

but... Maybe worth just waiting for a local one......

[sandy468]

In the usual real world cars in WA or FNQ are just too far to buy if you're in Melb or Sydney central. In Wa they at least need to be near Perth and FNQ at least near Cairns. Unless it's a screaming bargain or a very sought after unicorn or rare one, the logistics are tough. For a usual fair buy, either take the chance sight unseen and rely on someone else and be happy that you've handed over your hard earned min 50k but could be 100 - 200k and have nothing in return except the promise of a car - or jump on a plane and logistically take a day and a night minimum (no PPI) before you actually put a cash deposit or EFT the dep/total price. Still you may have EFT'd 50k, 100k, or 200k and no car til it shows up in sellers account - and hope he gives you the car. pretty much forget about driving it home unless you have 5 or 6 days spare and happy to do 4 -5000ks. All up cost, NO PPI, of getting there and driving home - around $2000 ..... getting there and shipping it, same. Like I said, just a bot too much in all areas unless a =unicorn or flatout bargain - long way to travel to check out a car that is usually not everything a seller says - they never are. Easier to wait til one pops up in Bris, Syd or Melb and you can fly early and be back home before the kids are in bed or have her in the garage the next night or freight her home and it'll only cost you a gorilla all up.

[Apogee]

In regards to condition the paint looks poor in at least 1 of the photos, there is visible gravel rash on the rims (or it looks like it) and the interior has not been looked after. I don't even know how you get a steering wheel that worn with those kms. Sandpaper for hands?

In my experience there is no such thing as a 'bargain used car' from any dealer. Just cars that need a lot of additional work (maintenance) with some lipstick on them to move them on.

Alarm bell number 1 - guy traded a Porsche for a ute.

Alarm bell number 2 - its priced significantly under market.

Alarm bell number 3 - it is at major service time (12 years) and also belt time (90k kms).

Alarm bell number 4 - doesn't look like its been cared for.

Could be a good car, just need to go in with eyes wide open.

I traded my 2008 Boxster S and GTI recently on an Audi SQ5 as we didn't need 3 cars - I wanted to do it on a Ford Ranger XLS or Wildtrek (we dive so a car with a bigger payload was needed and I wanted to tow my Spyder) but the Minister of Finance 86'd the idea because it is her money and she calls the shots, she wanted a bit of luxury and didn't want to be seen driving a Ute. So if I had my way (hah! no chance in hell), it would've been the same ute. So I wouldn't be suspicious of the car just because it was traded in on a ute. Circumstances change and people will trade in sportscars for more practical ones. 

I priced my Boxster significantly under market, it had low kms (65000) and a very late model 2008 987.1 with the 3.4L engine. It was priced at least 5K less than the competition yet I couldn't sell it after 4 months. It was so well maintained that the Audi Sales Manager of the dealership whom I traded the cars into now owns it. So just because it is priced significantly under market doesn't necessarily mean it is bad. The market isn't there and to sell the vehicle quickly, people will price it low to get rid of it.

 

 

 

 

[sleazius]

It's the sum of the parts not the individual that raises alarms. I just highlighted 4 points of concern with the one car, when taken altogether you get a pattern. Merely highlighting this as 2 members were indicating interest and it's better to go in eyes wide open given superficially there are a number of potential problems with the car.

Anyway I'm done. Back to the 911 threads for me where I belong 

[jakroo]

It's the sum of the parts not the individual that raises alarms. I just highlighted 4 points of concern with the one car, when taken altogether you get a pattern. Merely highlighting this as 2 members were indicating interest and it's better to go in eyes wide open given superficially there are a number of potential problems with the car.

Anyway I'm done. Back to the 911 threads for me where I belong 

 

The last time I bought a car (my Evo) or a motorobike (a Ducati 749s) I could take them for a test drive only after putting down a 100% deposit and signing some purchase papers.  I was comfortable in doing this as they were brand new.  In this case, the car will be 7+ years old and is likely to have had several owners so the service and driving history is unknown and the invoices etc don't tell the whole story.

I appreciate your input and point of view becuase it'll help me for when I do find one I'm really interested in.  Same goes for what Niko, plugger2 and a few others have said.....go in and have a look, ask a lot of questions and then work out the next step.  Even though I'm not interested in purchasing the car, I'm going to go and have a good look and see what is what about it. 

You should stay here sleazius and enjoy the relative comfort of the mid engined world and not out there in that crazy, weighty tail zone you call home 

[jakroo]

OMG a yellow one that can sit next to my yellow Evo...... https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Cayman-2007/SSE-AD-4631828  Although at $63+k, it's not exactly bargain of the moment/day/week/year....

 

Extremely low kms though so the moisture issues mentioned by the mechanics may come in to play.  I'm gunna have to win lotto to avoid these issues by buying new

[Apogee]

OMG a yellow one that can sit next to my yellow Evo...... https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Cayman-2007/SSE-AD-4631828  Although at $63+k, it's not exactly bargain of the moment/day/week/year....

 

Extremely low kms though so the moisture issues mentioned by the mechanics may come in to play.  I'm gunna have to win lotto to avoid these issues by buying new

I don't understand the concern over moisture issues.

[jakroo]

As far as I can tell, it's not too much different to what I've been taught in years gone by.  A well used and well serviced machine is better than a hardly used and hardly serviced machine.

The way it was explained to me, in relation to these cars, is that because the metals and oils don't get hot, they collect and retain moisture (and other impurities).

The oils in question are engine and transmission. The IMS has poor lubrication to begin with and fails as a result of poor lubricant quality.  I can't recall exactly, but there are similar concerns with the gearbox also needing to get nice and warm.

The oils also don't get to thin out as much as they should do ie stay thick(ish) and can't get in to all the nooks and crannies needed. Excessive wear is a result.   Moisture collects and isn't purged from the system, and it eventually causes corrosion leading to excessive wear.  The oils aren't changed frequently enough to cope with the increased impurities and end up being sludgy and not doing their job. ie low kilometres means infrequent oil changes when only based on distance and most people would do this rather than also taking time in to consideration.  

In terms of the metals, the same sort of issues apply to items such as exhaust systems.  We've all observed the fog coming from an exhaust on a cool morning or even in very humid air.  It's a result of the combustion in the engine of the fuel and air mix.  If the system doesn't get hot, the water will collect and eventually rust out either the exhaust or parts of the engine (although the engine blocks are big chunks of metal and so it's less likely but items like rocker/valve covers and small moving parts in the engine bay are candidates).

A cold catalytic converter will clog and start to fail to do it job (typically a good hard fang will fix this) leading to poor performance.

I know in my Evo, it gets oil and filter every 5k kms or about every 8 weeks.  One could argue that because the car is always driven and rarely cools down, the oils would be okay to stretch out to longer intervals of 10k kms but it's cheap to do (about $150 at a dealer) and it means that the car always has good oils to do their jobs of lubrication and impurity scavenging. My exhaust system from header to tail pipe is still working as designed and doesn't have any rattles or leaks and doesn't smell when I idle or hit the throttle hard and it's 275,000 kms old.

A car that is 10 years old that has 55,000 kms on the odo means it's done on average 105 kms a week.  Not a lot at all, and I would expect that it would be more likely be a couple of hundred kms every fortnight or month.  In any case the vehicle is sitting idle for much of the time with Mother Nature doing her best to return the materials used in construction back to base minerals.....

[Daz7]

In terms of conversations with mechanics....

BWA
-PPI $320 (plus a compression test for $220 if you decide to plus an oil and filter change if you want to check for IMS shavings)
-clutch and flywheel is just under $3k fitted
-major service is $1k inc belts (60k kms, 120k kms etc)
-minor service is $520
-IMS is approx $4.2k (2700 parts and 1500 labour) but is normally done with clutch if the car is a manual

Other points:
-IMS failure while rare to fail and destroy engine, it is a real issue and will impact all pre 2010 cars because they all have an IMS so it will need to be fixed
-gearboxes on Cayman and Boxsters are known to fail (I can't recall everything about it but it involved the some shaft or bearing at each end, selectors and a pinion gear)
-cars must be driven regularly and engines to get hot to avoid moisture related issues.  Many of these cars are not driven enough to avoid the issues.
-unlikely to get 275k kms out of a Cayman or Boxter without significant issues and costs (this was in response to me telling him of my Evo hitting 275k kms and still going really strongly without too much fuss)

AutoWerks
-PPI $390 (plus a compression test if so desired)
-major service is $1.2k
-clutch and IMS solution is approx $4k fitted
-brakes circa $250 per corner

other points:
-good service history is a must, atleast yearly oil changes
-low km cars are likely to have more issues due to not getting hot enough a lot of the time
-gearbox is sealed for life but suggests to get oil changed (circa $200 plus labour)
-the IMS solution 'bearing' also has a limited life (recommended by manufacturer) of approx 50k kms so at least some of the solution will need to be redone again, although he suspects that it's life could be doubled to 100k kms

You really need to question your sanity when looking at a bargain basement Cayman for $40k with potentially $7-10k worth of maintenance, that still has the bore scoring and IMS issue (that needs the cases split to replace the IMS) hanging over its head. 

I'd be inclined to go for a $50-55k Boxster S with the later 'IMS free' engine and updated interior.

 

[Niko]

I know Speed Yellow cops a bit of a caning, especially on Coxsters, but I reckon the Cayman wears that colour well.

Not sure about the interior, I could probably live with it, but I think the black interior for me...plus I wouldn't be able to help myself and get the rotors done yellow.

But that's just me...

Bit pricey...but grouse..

 

[Rob]

OMG a yellow one that can sit next to my yellow Evo...... https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-Cayman-2007/SSE-AD-4631828  Although at $63+k, it's not exactly bargain of the moment/day/week/year....

 

Extremely low kms though so the moisture issues mentioned by the mechanics may come in to play.  I'm gunna have to win lotto to avoid these issues by buying new

Jakroo - just note that it's a 2.7, not an "S", definitely not a bargain price...

[Apogee]

As far as I can tell, it's not too much different to what I've been taught in years gone by.  A well used and well serviced machine is better than a hardly used and hardly serviced machine.

The way it was explained to me, in relation to these cars, is that because the metals and oils don't get hot, they collect and retain moisture (and other impurities).

The oils in question are engine and transmission. The IMS has poor lubrication to begin with and fails as a result of poor lubricant quality.  I can't recall exactly, but there are similar concerns with the gearbox also needing to get nice and warm.

The oils also don't get to thin out as much as they should do ie stay thick(ish) and can't get in to all the nooks and crannies needed. Excessive wear is a result.   Moisture collects and isn't purged from the system, and it eventually causes corrosion leading to excessive wear.  The oils aren't changed frequently enough to cope with the increased impurities and end up being sludgy and not doing their job. ie low kilometres means infrequent oil changes when only based on distance and most people would do this rather than also taking time in to consideration.  

In terms of the metals, the same sort of issues apply to items such as exhaust systems.  We've all observed the fog coming from an exhaust on a cool morning or even in very humid air.  It's a result of the combustion in the engine of the fuel and air mix.  If the system doesn't get hot, the water will collect and eventually rust out either the exhaust or parts of the engine (although the engine blocks are big chunks of metal and so it's less likely but items like rocker/valve covers and small moving parts in the engine bay are candidates).

A cold catalytic converter will clog and start to fail to do it job (typically a good hard fang will fix this) leading to poor performance.

I know in my Evo, it gets oil and filter every 5k kms or about every 8 weeks.  One could argue that because the car is always driven and rarely cools down, the oils would be okay to stretch out to longer intervals of 10k kms but it's cheap to do (about $150 at a dealer) and it means that the car always has good oils to do their jobs of lubrication and impurity scavenging. My exhaust system from header to tail pipe is still working as designed and doesn't have any rattles or leaks and doesn't smell when I idle or hit the throttle hard and it's 275,000 kms old.

A car that is 10 years old that has 55,000 kms on the odo means it's done on average 105 kms a week.  Not a lot at all, and I would expect that it would be more likely be a couple of hundred kms every fortnight or month.  In any case the vehicle is sitting idle for much of the time with Mother Nature doing her best to return the materials used in construction back to base minerals.....

Thanks Jakroo for that comprehensive explanation.

One thing to note though is that the 987s have a timed service warning that shows up on the MFD each time you start the car, when the car has passed it's one year servicing interval, telling you to get it serviced and can only be reset via the ECU. 

And if the owner is an enthusiast, you'd expect that he would be driving it spiritedly at least three or four times a month. My Boxster S was also a daily driver and I only put 22,000 kms over a 4 year period.

 

[jakroo]

Jakroo - just note that it's a 2.7, not an "S", definitely not a bargain price...

yes, that had caught my eye as well, and he has advertised it as '$63,500 no offers'......tell him he's dreamin' comes to mind

 

[sleazius]

I know Speed Yellow cops a bit of a caning, especially on Coxsters, but I reckon the Cayman wears that colour well.

Not sure about the interior, I could probably live with it, but I think the black interior for me...plus I wouldn't be able to help myself and get the rotors done yellow.

But that's just me...

Bit pricey...but grouse..

 

Speed Yellow is the bomb! <- totally not biased 

[jakroo]

So I went to see the $40k one in Parramatta.

The paintwork was 'okay' but not stellar.  It did have some swirls, scratches and the like (I obviously need to get a better monitor or better eyes or both, I couldn't spot this in the photos on the carsales website).  A few chips on the driver's door edge and the same for the front storage unit (whatever it is called for a car with no engine in the front or back of the vehicle)

The interior was okay, but did have wear marks on the door opening latch handle surround and around a few other areas.

If I was to compare it to my car, I'd say my interior is in better condition (at almost the same age but 3 x the kms so I've been in mine a lot more).  I'm not sure how well the Cayman interiors hold up as there's a lot of coated plastic surrounds such as the handbrake storage area etc (look like they're coated/painted as opposed to being polished plastic) that will eventually scratch or the coating starts to fail.  This one had the beginnings of that, but the solution may well be to remove the lot and while it'll be black instead of dark grey, it will look tidy and not scruffy.

But having said that, we also need to remember that this Cayman is 10+ years old and has been used so it will have some wear (at an average speed of 60 km/h, it would have been sat in for 1500 hours).  What is acceptable would be up to the individual.  I'm sure that most of the paint swirls and scratches etc would be sorted by a good detail but obviously not the chips.

Also of interest, I noted that the leading/front face of the rear wheel arch/flare was lightly pitted, I presume this is from debris being flung up from the front wheels.  Also, the door jambs and lower door trim panels had, I presume, marks from the seat belt buckle as it's being removed from the driver.

There's never going to be the chance to put a pushbike in it (although a fluffy cat could sit curled up on the rear parcel shelf but not a dog!), but I was pleasantly surprised how much storage it does have, particularly the deep section in the front.

While I was there, a guy from the dealership was fussing around it and he said that it was about to be sold and was headed to Melbourne. I didn't get a chance to see the service history.

As it was my first sit in one, I did enjoy it and imagined myself fanging around in a red one!!  Driving back to work, I went past a blue one that was being driven the other direction.  That's a nice colour as well.

[firstone]

I would think a low klm car that had been driven each time to a full heat up of all fluids and exhaust would expel the moisture condensed. 

 

[Rob]

Jackroo

Thanks for the eyes-on info, always of interest to us out-of-staters.  So - going to Melbourne - wondering if it's someone on here?

Cheers

Rob

[Plugger2]

Still having those "impure thoughts", Rob?

(I can't claim an immaculate soul in that regard myself.)

[Rob]

Still having those "impure thoughts", Rob?

(I can't claim an immaculate soul in that regard myself.)

Always Plugger, but can't quite imagine myself ripping into a Cayman's mechanicals the way I do with the 952.  And the 952 doesn't have potential IMS or cylinder chunking issues either.

And... on news just in from CarSales, the bargain Cayman S, which we thought to be sold, is now advertised at... $43,888

[Mike D'Silva]

Always Plugger, but can't quite imagine myself ripping into a Cayman's mechanicals the way I do with the 952.  And the 952 doesn't have potential IMS or cylinder chunking issues either.

And... on news just in from CarSales, the bargain Cayman S, which we thought to be sold, is now advertised at... $43,888

How much was this before 43888?