996 C2 Manual Coupe Values

[dan_189]

ah i c, is it different to the GT3 kit? looks really similar, that said, if the right car came for the price with/without the kit i wouldn't say no.

but the interior u'll have to see every day.

Both AeroKit 1 and 2 are identical to the MK1 and MK2 GT3 respectively. Front bar and side skirts are identical, deck lid is identical apart from the underside configuration due to the differences in air boxes between the carrera and GT3. AeroKits are rare options and to retrofit them is not a cheap exercise.

Agree..  And I really don't like the 'draped leather' on the seats..  Much prefer the other style of upholstery.  

And white dials - has to have white dials.!

 

When I got my car I wanted white dials but  i've grown to love the simplicity of the black as there aren't any other white parts in the interior. Red belts though... thats another story To each their own  

[Avon]

Strong feelings about the Savannah!  Have to agree about being hard to live with - but it shouldn't be too hard to get some boxster seats and/or get that leather repainted for not too much.  Bargaining point.

 

[quasio]

that's a LOT of leather to repaint.. all the dash etc needs done too.. heheh.. anyway i think we all agree, maybe better looking at another vehicle, unless you love the color.

 

[dan_189]

There's a fair bit to recolour! You'd be better off buying an entire interior then colouring it. They run about 3k or just buy the right colour for you at the start. 

[quasio]

Spoke to the guy with the MY02, asked whether he'd had the IMS done.

He pretty much had no idea about it. Sounds like he just drives and gets it serviced at porsche whenever it needs it. 

146,000kms with no ims done? should i walk away? or am i stressing over an low probability issue.

PPI at PRtech about $700 but sounds very comprehensive.

 

 

[dan_189]

Spoke to the guy with the MY02, asked whether he'd had the IMS done.

He pretty much had no idea about it. Sounds like he just drives and gets it serviced at porsche whenever it needs it. 

146,000kms with no ims done? should i walk away? or am i stressing over an low probability issue.

PPI at PRtech about $700 but sounds very comprehensive.

 

 

On the slightly high side but not having the IMS done is not an issue. 

Get it done when you get the clutch done or prior if you'd prefer. The engines not going to blow up when you drive it out of his driveway. Look at the car overall, interior condition, things working or not, oil leaks etc. $700 for a PPI is steep but maybe they drop the pan to look for bits. 

[Pokiou]

if you drive the car often as in 2-3 times a week, your less likely to ever need an IMS bearing.. However the mk2 did come with the single row and no the double row like the mk1 right ?

[dan_189]

if you drive the car often as in 2-3 times a week, your less likely to ever need an IMS bearing.. However the mk2 did come with the single row and no the double row like the mk1 right ?

There really isn't any formula you can apply to the IMS bearing. However the statistics from the US class action show 1% failure rate for the dual row compared to 8% for the single. Most if not almost all mk1s have a dual and mk2s have a single. 

The LN pro is a dual in place of a single. The IMS solution is a plain bearing that is oil fed.

There is pleanty of detail on the IMS as it's been discussed ad nauseam everywhere on the interwebs... 

I wouldn't get hung up on the IMS bearing, choose the car that ticks all the boxes for you then if the IMS hasn't been done get it done when you can. 

 

[DT]

Without wishing to open up the IMSB pandora's box and recognising I'm a newbie here, this quote from Jake Raby, of Flat6 Innovations on the Rennlist forum makes a lot of sense to me:

'The spec that we have seen come into play most isn't the shaft (though it does happen) but more the bores that are machined into the crankcase to mount the IMS flange, and to hold the crankshaft carrier.'

This seems to point to the fact that it wasn't really the bearing that was the problem, it was out of round shafts or more likely bore centres that caused the bearing to fail. In this situation it makes sense that a small single row bearing wouldn't cope as well as a dual row bearing or the later 997 larger single row.

One would also assume that cars with this problem have been found out by now. I guess it could still be an issue with a super low k car (particularly a mk2) but still very unlikely given the percentage of original failures as Dan noted above.

If you did happen across a moth-balled super-low k car and you weren't prepared to take the slight risk that it might have an out of round shaft or bore centre, swapping the bearing out for another single row bearing won't fix the problem, you'd be better off stumping up the extra beans for the IMS Solution plain bearing, which apparently can handle the extra load of an out of round shaft or bore centre.

But as Dan says don't get hung up on it, if you're looking at a car with a few k's on it and it's original bearing, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[michel]

Avon I think it's the combination of 'everything' - green in mid modern cars not sought after and hard to sell, import take 10k off, redone interior leather for some reason and woodgrain both a negative, although the gt3 wheels and kit add some $$$ back in this case. BUT you'd have to live with the baby shit mustard interior, I'd have to wear rose coloured glasses not only driving bu entering the garage! Oh and a big question here and I'm no mechanic ""new RMS and IMS checked"" so you put in a new rear main seal and not the IMS bearing as well? When motors out and that stuff is apart well you do the right thing. And I may be wrong but I'm not sure you can "check" the bearing, and if it's apart and a physical and visual check, well just change the damn thing

if it was a mazda MX-5 the colour combo not an issue. wood grain naff though interior and redone in leather in my bespectacled eyes not a bad thing,  though as said the vague (seller) reference to ims rms is a plonker comment. anyone actually been to visit this?

 

 

 

[TrevMcRev]

 

[D2000]

Nice manual C2 with aero kit for $50,000 

https://carsales.mobi/cars/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1998/SSE-AD-4332672

[dan_189]

Few options in coupe, manual MK2 on carsales at the moment in coupe all starting with a 6 though, MK1 might be the answer

[quasio]

yeah, interesting about the 3xlow km's mk2's all in the 60K's..

One has sold, well unavailable, would be curious how much it sold for. (And its back on the market again)

Historically speaking, it's a touch on the high side but haven't seen 3 with such low kms in a very long time, so maybe their prices are justified. 

Look like great cars, and so in the end the market will speak.

 

 

 

[RennRob]

My car is!!!!

Jim.

Mine too

I have remained an avid watcher of the market, and have deffo noticed an increase in prices.

[Jim45]

Mine too

I have remained an avid watcher of the market, and have deffo noticed an increase in prices.

Second that - they are creeping up. When I was looking 2015/16 top end 996's, (C2 / C4 not 4S), were high 50's as a starting point for negotiation.

 

[quasio]

They are creeping slightly. I think the market for Man C2's are slightly skewed due to those 3 very low km's examples.

Autos are still pretty cheap, but they are all high kms

Although I mean if they are asking for 65k.. i would be very tempted to go the 997 for 70k. (but it does have high kms)

Anyway can't afford it.. will have to wait a little longer for the right one.

 

 

 

 

[D2000]

Well priced MK2 with IMS bearing replacement: https://carsales.mobi/cars/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-2003/SSE-AD-4539529

[RennRob]

Well priced MK2 with IMS bearing replacement: https://carsales.mobi/cars/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-2003/SSE-AD-4539529

I agree. There were a couple of gen 2 c2 with the same km for sale about 12-18 months ago. No IMS upgrades though. Advertised for the same $ as his one.

 

i believe they both sold for about 55k

[Peter M]

..........quote from Jake Raby, of Flat6 Innovations on the Rennlist forum makes a lot of sense to me:

'The spec that we have seen come into play most isn't the shaft (though it does happen) but more the bores that are machined into the crankcase to mount the IMS flange, and to hold the crankshaft carrier.'

This seems to point to the fact that it wasn't really the bearing that was the problem, it was out of round shafts or more likely bore centres that caused the bearing to fail. In this situation it makes sense that a small single row bearing wouldn't cope as well as a dual row bearing or the later 997 larger single row.

Can anyone explain the failure mechanism that Raby is expousing now?

Just sounds like another way for Raby to put his hand in the pockets of anxious 996 owners!

 

 

[DT]

Can anyone explain the failure mechanism that Raby is expousing now?

Just sounds like another way for Raby to put his hand in the pockets of anxious 996 owners!

 

 

My understanding of what the Rabster is saying is that it's the extra vibration 'load' on the bearing from an out of round shaft and/or bore centre that is the primary cause of bearing failure, not the actual bearing itself. I haven't seen mention if the out of round shafts/bores occurred evenly across the 996/early 997 range but if so I guess it would suggest that the small single row cars just didn't cope as well with the extra vibration as the dual or larger single row. On a slightly different tack I've read Baz from Hartech say that with the dual row cars once they're past their initial run in, with the bearing seal worn enough to let a little oil in, they're fine. Based on this I've chosen to leave my dual row bearing alone, but I think if I had a single row car I'd be very tempted to put in a plain oil fed bearing.

[dan_189]

Can anyone explain the failure mechanism that Raby is expousing now?

Just sounds like another way for Raby to put his hand in the pockets of anxious 996 owners!

 

 

That failure has to do with a fire in one of the engine factories forcing the production into a different factory. Engines that were produced came out with slightly unsymmetrical RMS areas. Most of these engines from what I've read were replaced under warranty. However if it wasn't nothing can be done but the symptoms are an RMS seal that refuses not to leak. Dual row IMS aren't exempt from failure. You roll the dice with an original IMS no matter the configuration. I say this because someone on rennlist just caught their dual row before it failed. If you have a reason to drop the gearbox you should get it done. Doesn't matter what you choose single row pro or solution they do the same job however there are pros and cons to each. 

[D2000]

 

I thought one of the difficulties was also that you won't know for sure if you have single or dual row until you open it up, and once you have incurred the labour cost to do that you may as well replace it. 

I'd also be interested to know the cons of the solution (which I had installed!)

[dan_189]

I thought one of the difficulties was also that you won't know for sure if you have single or dual row until you open it up, and once you have incurred the labour cost to do that you may as well replace it. 

I'd also be interested to know the cons of the solution (which I had installed!)

There aren't any major cons just the fact that the oil filter is shorter so the replacement interval is highly reduced also the exposure of the oil feed line (not a major concern but worth a mention) and the fact that you need to cut into the block to accommodate for the oil feed line. The retrofit is less invasive but also has a service life and still uses bearing (abiet they are ceramic coated). 

[DT]

That failure has to do with a fire in one of the engine factories forcing the production into a different factory. Engines that were produced came out with slightly unsymmetrical RMS areas. Most of these engines from what I've read were replaced under warranty. However if it wasn't nothing can be done but the symptoms are an RMS seal that refuses not to leak. Dual row IMS aren't exempt from failure. You roll the dice with an original IMS no matter the configuration. I say this because someone on rennlist just caught their dual row before it failed. If you have a reason to drop the gearbox you should get it done. Doesn't matter what you choose single row pro or solution they do the same job however there are pros and cons to each. 

My understanding was that the RMS failures had no correlation to IMS/B failures, given the RMS runs on the end of the crankshaft and the intermediate shaft is completely separate to that...unless the factory-shift affected cars had both out of round RMS bores and out of round IMS bores? Seems far fetched and I don't remember Jake mentioning any correlation between the two, but maybe I've missed something, it's happened before!

I saw the recent near failed dual row on Rennlist, it does go to show they're not immune, but the body of evidence is still in their favour. Fingers crossed regular oil changes and a good dose of spirited driving have a positive bearing...kaboom tish.

Interestingly changing to Penrite HPR5 5W 40 has stopped the slight oil leak I was getting under the RMS.