Porsche A/C Observations over 40 years

[OZ930]

Here's one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PORSCHE-911-AC-AIR-CONDITIONING-BEHR-under-Dash-t-e-s-911T-911S-A-c-Knee-Pad/172429066505?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41402%26meid%3Dc87b6f6846914de997ce39e55fe553a6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D172429061488

[81SC]

CLASSIC PORSCHE 911 A/C AVAILABLE TO ORDER

The Classic Retrofit electric A/C system for vintage Porsche 911s launches at the LA Lit Show today and the order books are officially open! For all those who can't make it to Los Angeles, here's a list of frequently asked questions for the Electrocooler system. Contact us with anything not mentioned.

This system retails at £2995 plus taxes (approx $3700 plus US sales taxes). Our first production run of thirty full A/C kits already has a number of confirmed orders and there are limited slots left. We expect to ship our first thirty kits in May 2017 and will start our second run at that time. Email info@classicretrofit.com to discuss!

How much does the system cost?


The price of the standard system is £2995 + VAT. That’s around $3700 before sales tax.

What am I getting for my money?


Electrocooler is more than just A/C, it’s a completely redesigned HVAC for your 911. It has improved airflow and allows combinations of heat/cooling not possible with the factory system. E.g. A/C warm air can be used for defog, cool air can be directed to your feet. Warm air can come out of the centre vents. We have redesigned the air blower and distribution. All parts are new, current technology.

So it produces heat as well?


No. The Electrocooler system still uses exhaust heat, but the air distribution has been repurposed to add modern features such as recirculation.

How much does the system weigh?


The weight of the full A/C kit is around 14 kg / 30 lbs

What modifications are required to the car to fit?


No modifications are required to the main bodyshell. We use existing holes in the body. Some removable parts may need modification (e.g. the steering column cover).

How long does it take to fit?


On a non A/C car, fitting our kit should take around 3 to 4 hours.

How do I control Electrocooler from my 911's dashboard?


There is a single momentary push switch with LED illumination. Existing sliders are retained but they now perform slightly different functions. Is it very intuitive.

What about extra vents?


On the SC and later, we use the factory (non A/C) vents. On early cars without centre vents, we have some ideas forming so speak to us!

The system is electric so it must use a lot of current, right?


Electrocooler uses between 35 and 50 Amps depending on the ambient temperature and cooling demand. It has been tested and developed to cope with a wide range of ambient temperatures, including Death Valley!

50A is a lot of power, so am I going to need a bigger alternator?


911 SCs and earlier need their alternators upgrading to the 90A Carrera 3.2 unit. 50A isn’t a lot of current by modern standards.

How will my Porsche 911 charging system cope?


The Electrocooler ECU has a control algorithm that regulates the compressor speed, based on the alternator output and electrical demand of the vehicle. These control systems are our specialist area of expertise.

Will it fit other vehicles? Can I get it for my other classic cars?


Yes, apart from the blower/evaporator unit which is designed for the 911. The system has been fitted to a Ford GT40, Marcos and E-Type Jaguar.

How do I order a system?


The system we are debuting at the LA Lit Show is a pre-production system. We still have some work to do on the blower unit for production. Our product roadmap looks like this:

March 

• ElectroCooler public debut at LA Lit Show
• Customers register interest
• Return to UK
• 
Refine blower design for production
• 
Final test fit of production parts to test mules

April

• Confirm deposits for initial production run (30 kits)
• Procure parts and start manufacture
• Assemble first 30 kits

May

• Shipping of first production units
• Confirm deposits for second production run

 

[SimonN]

That's a bit more than i thought it would cost but I do like it. I can't be part of the first run but could well go with the second production run. My only wish is that they had done heat as well as i would love to get rid of the heat exchangers.

[Wanted]

Extremly informitive and detailed post!! I too am wanting to upgrade the AC on my 79 911 SC- I have two mechanics that work for me that have tickets in refridgeration. Due to our remote location we repair our own A/C on our light vehicles as well as all of the machinary on site. I have looked into upgrading the Condensor to a similar setup to the ones that you can buy that fit under the LH Rear Guard ( Mine is a wide body so lots of room) I propose to either have one condensor maybe two with a shroud and the largest thermo fan I can fit.

In your opinion will this be a better option than the original setup with one mounted over the rear engine bay lid and the other small one at the front of the car?

I am hoping to custom make this from new items from Ashdowns.

I am not concerned about keepoing the car original as it has had some modifications already.

Any help wpould be apreciated.

 

Thanks

[Coastr]

That's a bit more than i thought it would cost but I do like it. I can't be part of the first run but could well go with the second production run. My only wish is that they had done heat as well as i would love to get rid of the heat exchangers.

I was close with my 4k guess, just in wrong currency!  $5k system is getting up there but small biscuits in an overall build.

Also have to factor in a larger alternator for earlier cars.

im guessing the lack of heat has to do with current availability.  Although reverse cycle would work pretty well I would think.

[SimonN]

Extremly informitive and detailed post!! I too am wanting to upgrade the AC on my 79 911 SC- I have two mechanics that work for me that have tickets in refridgeration. Due to our remote location we repair our own A/C on our light vehicles as well as all of the machinary on site. I have looked into upgrading the Condensor to a similar setup to the ones that you can buy that fit under the LH Rear Guard ( Mine is a wide body so lots of room) I propose to either have one condensor maybe two with a shroud and the largest thermo fan I can fit.

In your opinion will this be a better option than the original setup with one mounted over the rear engine bay lid and the other small one at the front of the car?

I am hoping to custom make this from new items from Ashdowns.

I am not concerned about keepoing the car original as it has had some modifications already.

Any help wpould be apreciated.

 

Thanks

You would do well to call Autohaus Hamilton who have done a lot of work on this and should be able to provide you with the answers and parts you need. They use one in the rear lid and another under the rear guard. Their prices should be competitive with what you pay at Ashdowns, taking into account they also supply the fittings you need for installation which will save a lot of messing about. Do not under estimate the importance of a better evaporator and uprated evaporator fan, which they also do. I think that is almost more important than the extra condenser and is a proven route with everybody who specialises in uprating the original system.

[81SC]

Classic Retrofit have an update on their A/C system, complete with PDF download. The new photos show the layout of the A/C components, so these should answer some of our many questions.

http://www.classicretrofit.com/electrocooler-complete-kit-for-911-1974--1989/

 

[scashin]

Link not working.  Try this http://www.classicretrofit.com/electrocooler-complete-kit-for-911-1974--1989/

[Stardust]

This is why I like Bruce (and Sean). Totally dedicated to these cars.

Bruce could talk your ear off if you gave him half a chance.

[Stu]

Anyone going to install one if these classic retrofit aircons? They seem to claim that their system is brilliant and non invasive. I am almost keen but would love to hear from someone not in their marketing team who has first hand experience!

[clutch-monkey]

Anyone going to install one if these classic retrofit aircons? They seem to claim that their system is brilliant and non invasive. I am almost keen but would love to hear from someone not in their marketing team who has first hand experience!

can't quote on their system specifically but i have just finished my similar home brew version on the E9 and it works really well. Stirling electrics said the uprated alternator will sap a few more hp but i've basically offset that by losing the clutch fan for a electric thermofan.
i'd say a conventional A/C system still has the edge but basically the electric system i have set up is definitely good enough.
i removed my conventional A/C setup from my 911 years ago and would not consider ever putting one back in, would definitely go for a neater electric system.

Edited 3May, 2017 by clutch-monkey

[Stu]

can't quote on their system specifically but i have just finished my similar home brew version on the E9 and it works really well. Stirling electrics said the uprated alternator will sap a few more hp but i've basically offset that by losing the clutch fan for a electric thermofan.i'd say a conventional A/C system still has the edge but basically the electric system i have set up is definitely good enough.
i removed my conventional A/C setup from my 911 years ago and would not consider ever putting one back in, would definitely go for a neater electric system.

what's your ball park cost on that if you don't mind telling? I'm super keen do do something I currently have no AC

[clutch-monkey]

what's your ball park cost on that if you don't mind telling? I'm super keen do do something I currently have no AC

i didn't keep records but it would have been 4-5k cheaper next time to do it now i have a better idea

[cafe_racer]

HI @Buchanan Automotive, I have read all your info here and it is an amazing source of knowledge.

 

I have removed the a/c from my '86 3.2 carrera and installed an electric a/c system.  There is one thing perpelxing me and that is drainage from the fresh air blower seems to be going straight into the cabin and onto the carpets...Less than ideal.

 

As per the photo below there seems to be a point below the blower which would be a good drainage point and also a hole in the passenger footwell.  By removing the evaporator in the passenger footwell has that drainage point been compromised?  Or am I missing something here?

 

Thanks again

[OZ930]

This is the factory drain

 

 

and it exits the car here

 

[cafe_racer]

Nice, this is good intel, thank you!  Now basically seems like drain hose needs to go from the classic retrofit blower using the factory lines...Seems like the install just had the water going into the frunk!  Not great planning by the installers....

[OZ930]

7 minutes ago, cafe_racer said:

Nice, this is good intel, thank you!  Now basically seems like drain hose needs to go from the classic retrofit blower using the factory lines...Seems like the install just had the water going into the frunk!  Not great planning by the installers....

You are welcome.  

I just noticed how much of a dog's breakfast the factory instal is.  The fresh air vent above the passengers footwell is effectively compromised by the false floor over the evaporator, so no real airflow gets to the passengers footwell.  Another mod coming up I suspect.

[Peter M]

1 hour ago, OZ930 said:

 ….. The fresh air vent above the passengers footwell is effectively compromised by the false floor over the evaporator, so no real airflow gets to the passengers footwell.  Another mod coming up I suspect.

Brian,

I've just bought a anemometer to measure exactly that and few other odd things.  However I suspect the real problem lies in the plumbing in the frunk.  Hopefully soon I'll have some real numbers to know exactly where the opportunities are.

 

I reckon I recognise the brown carpet and the unphotogenic earth crimp in photo 2! 

[OZ930]

1 hour ago, Peter M said:

Brian,

I've just bought a anemometer to measure exactly that and few other odd things.  However I suspect the real problem lies in the plumbing in the frunk.  Hopefully soon I'll have some real numbers to know exactly where the opportunities are.

 

I reckon I recognise the brown carpet and the unphotogenic earth crimp in photo 2! 

Hi Peter,

I think it is definitely the convoluted plumbing and the crinkly tubing that is used. 

I wasn’t sure whether the photo was yours or Dan’s.  Have I breached your copyright ?

😅
 

 

  

[Glom1098]

THere is a  separate hole in the footwell that drains the condensate from the evaporator that you may be also able to use-it will have been blocked off if you had a RHD AC installation originally. In the last picture by OZ930 it is the non corrugated drain that is in the front of the left of the picture-you can see the drain better in the middle picture

[cafe_racer]

16 minutes ago, Glom1098 said:

THere is a  separate hole in the footwell that drains the condensate from the evaporator that you may be also able to use-it will have been blocked off if you had a RHD AC installation originally. In the last picture by OZ930 it is the non corrugated drain that is in the front of the left of the picture-you can see the drain better in the middle picture

Hi mate, assume you  mean the circled hole? 

 

Oddly enough it's wide open right now!  Suspect skunk werks will have to re-purpose this hole for drainage from the classic retrofit fresh air blower.  Fingers crossed!

[Coastr]

I came across this thread while researching - I think it’s interesting in retrospect the discussion of the classic retrofit system.  Yes, they did need to design more condensers after real world (non-uk) testing - hot climates suggest two condensers.  Yes, they had to design an upgraded alternator to provide idle amperage.  But yes, it works as expected and singer used it for the multi-million dollar DLS, a definite signal of quality. 
 

And now, years later Jeff is doing a video of the install.. replacing the vents inside to get airflow.  All the thoughts raised in the thread played out in the end.