Exhaust Upgrade for a Hotrod

[BlitzKonig]

Flat headers as clutch-monkey posted, (custom I assume) into single Magnaflow muffler and twin pipe out (also a 993 3.6).


And when talking about exhausts... how is there no sound clips yet?

 

 

 

Edited 9March, 2017 by BlitzKonig

[Philbee]

Phil,do you know if the ECU is stock 993? If it is I believe it is pretty fruitless chasing exhaust related HP without some serious nerd fiddling.

oh... Cos my plan was to hit 300 with a new header/muffler combo... I expect the ecu is stock, none of the paperwork says anything about that. I thought the ecu stuff was something to do in addition and would add even more. Ok, add that to the list then. Wheel in the nerd!

Before I do anything I was planning on dyno-Ing it to get a baseline and find out if the existing setup is holding her back or doing ok at around 270... It actually sounds ok, it just looks a bit ratty at the back. I hear your requests, will try and capture some audio, the dulcet tones of the philbee HotRod!

My vote is keep the current headers and get someone who knows what rear muffler makes a nice sound and get them to figure the job out and send you the bill.  Or drill holes in what you've got.

this is definitely an option (& cheaper too) as the 964 headers might be ok even though the connection to the 993 is not correct. Just get a muffler for a good sound, make the rear look a bit nicer and if lucky might gain a horse or 3!

[Philbee]

Whipped off the cover & took the h'rod for a cruise around this morning and you know what.....  Geez, it has plenty of firepower for me and sounds sooo good. I flawed it in 2nd at one point which I haven't really done much as brighton residents dont take too kindly to that sort of thing (love that gear!)...Warp speed, captain!  ... and sounded brilliant - what the hell, she's a bewt, mate!

So what if the headers aren't an exact match, they've been fitted and they work, they're for a 964 so should  handle my 993, right?  They're such a big ticket item I might leave them for now (@porkchops inspired), save my hard earned spondoolas & just look at a muffler update only as has been suggested... 

Thanks again,  I've learnt heaps and your support and ideas warm the cockles of me heart.... 

Btw, I attempted a sound clip in my garage, cold start... didn't go so good and didn't rev it either which in hindsight was lame - the neighbours are too damn close. Will try again maybe down near the park...

[michel]

http://vid615.photobucket.com/albums/tt231/micheloaks/Mobile Uploads/trim.A80F4A2C-0151-413C-9ACD-F9C12AF7A422.mp4

 

Edited 10March, 2017 by michel

[Philbee]

I wouldn't have thought the engine bay size would be much different between the 993 and the 3.2? They are basically the same chassis just with some alterations for the more modern suspension, etc.

As per my other post in the "definitive exhaust thread".... I just found out:

Visited the doctor today for a muffler check...Cos I have a big 993 engine and the smaller RS rear bumper there's not enough room for a stock muffler! So Monty & M&K are out. Must do a custom jobbie! Might have to get headers too to marry up with the muffler... Hmmm, more Google for now!!

So @MFX, you're right, the engine bay is about same but its the bit at the back where the muffler goes up into seems to be the sticking point. Apparently, the 993 compared to 3.2 engine has a cog or 2 that sticks out further...  and with the rs rear bumper, it comes in closer than the stock bumper. So, I lose space from the engine and the bumper, hence the sausage muffler cannot go!!

[Philbee]

if you want guaranteed fit;

1) buy and fit some off the shelf headers (i have some 3.6 fabspeed ones on a shelf here if you need, though they will hang low and need a nip and tuck if you have backdated)

2) buy two $130 magnaflow mufflers

3) get any exhaust shop to make the remaining bits and fit mufflers, thus guaranteeing the system fits your car and it's idiosyncrasies

i.e. (without rear valence fitted here)

Hey @clutch-monkey.. after my visit to my mechanic yesterday he suggested I'd need a custom muffler & maybe a magnaflow muffler or 2 joined up  & with custom bits and then maybe fabspeed headers.... we're talking' your language. Do you still have those fabspeed headers? Are you in melb?

[clutch-monkey]

Hey @clutch-monkey.. after my visit to my mechanic yesterday he suggested I'd need a custom muffler & maybe a magnaflow muffler or 2 joined up  & with custom bits and then maybe fabspeed headers.... we're talking' your language. Do you still have those fabspeed headers? Are you in melb?

in Brisbane. I still have them but they do hang low on a non-964 which is why I ended up doing custom. They'd still work but I'd recommend getting some work done to them to tuck them up better.

[Philbee]

Just wanna say I'm still brewing over this... If I get a custom muffler made to fit, then why get it tailored to boring old stock headers. Might as well get the better ones like fabspeed or SSI, etc... And get the custom muffler fitted to this. checking out magnflows for a simple muffler.

 

[Pork Chops]

Just wanna say I'm still brewing over this... If I get a custom muffler made to fit, then why get it tailored to boring old stock headers. Might as well get the better ones like fabspeed or SSI, etc... And get the custom muffler fitted to this. checking out magnflows for a simple muffler.

 

SSIs are nice but they are expensive. Do they flow much better than stock headers (have you got 993 or 964?). If I had stock 993 headers I'm not sure I'd go to the cost and bother of swapping them out unless there was compelling evidence it was worth it. I'd reckon all the sound difference will come from a muffler change and from memory I think I've read that stock 993 headers are not too bad. Do some googling before spending extra. PM me if you're considering selling your 993 headers.

[clutch-monkey]

Just wanna say I'm still brewing over this... If I get a custom muffler made to fit, then why get it tailored to boring old stock headers. Might as well get the better ones like fabspeed or SSI, etc... And get the custom muffler fitted to this. checking out magnflows for a simple muffler.

 

two options-

1) do the muffler part now, can always do extractors later if you want to optimize it further later on; reshaping or modifying the pipes connecting the muffler to the extractors would not be a major job to do down the line (especially if doing custom extractors or fabspeed etc anyway!).

2) do it all, once, and never have to revisit it. but doing muffler first would be a good litmus test to see if you actually like the modifications first haha.

i have found the exhaust is easier to modify and fiddle with over time though. whereas on the intake side i'm not touching anything until my EFI/ITB bits are ready to go on!

[Philbee]

SSIs are nice but they are expensive. Do they flow much better than stock headers (have you got 993 or 964?). If I had stock 993 headers I'm not sure I'd go to the cost and bother of swapping them out unless there was compelling evidence it was worth it. I'd reckon all the sound difference will come from a muffler change and from memory I think I've read that stock 993 headers are not too bad. Do some googling before spending extra. PM me if you're considering selling your 993 headers.

this is the big question, I have 964 headers with my 993 engine. how much gain do I get from paying the big bucks for new headers? I have no idea. All the vendors rave how good there's is and so do all the forum posts who have them... It's hard to decipher.  I think the muffler change is a good first step. Sound update definitely from the muffler, agree.

but my longer term plan should $$ be available and swapping headers is confirmed to make a diff with a good muffler, is to go the whole hog and then even look at the efi/itb route... Wanna crack 300 hp ! I mean who doesn't, right?

two options-

1) do the muffler part now, can always do extractors later if you want to optimize it further later on; reshaping or modifying the pipes connecting the muffler to the extractors would not be a major job to do down the line (especially if doing custom extractors or fabspeed etc anyway!).

2) do it all, once, and never have to revisit it. but doing muffler first would be a good litmus test to see if you actually like the modifications first haha.

i have found the exhaust is easier to modify and fiddle with over time though. whereas on the intake side i'm not touching anything until my EFI/ITB bits are ready to go on!

thanks mate, good points. Like option 1. And as per 2) it's a good litmus test...!

[jamesb]

Am going through the same process at the moment. 

My mechanic has back to back tested 993 heat exchangers and equal length headers. On his car that isn't running a wide cam the equal length made no difference. 

If you want heat and don't want to run ITB's and a wide cams the 993 exchangers are best. I just picked up a set from the sates for $750 shipped. 

He is going to get a custom muffler made for me by a bloke that makes stuff for V8 supercars. Shouldn't cost a stupid amount. 

Do you have to run a CAT? 

[Philbee]

Here's another thing I haven't sussed out why yet... I thought seeing I have 90's engine and headers I would hav a 2 in setup but my mechanic says I have 1 in 1 out. Somehow one side wraps around and joins up ... Why? No idea. I thought 1 in was the old way, 2 in was for later models...964/993 and beyond.  2 in seems a better way...each side goes goes straight in at each end of the muffler. Less pipe means less weight, right? Hence my naive thinking of updating my headers too so I get a 2 in setup going to a 1 out look. 

Edit: Can anyone shed light on this anomaly...? When did 1 in become 2 in ? Or is it not chronological? Is it based on engine size or model?

Edited 9May, 2017 by Philbee
question asked...

[Philbee]

Am going through the same process at the moment. 

My mechanic has back to back tested 993 heat exchangers and equal length headers. On his car that isn't running a wide cam the equal length made no difference. 

If you want heat and don't want to run ITB's and a wide cams the 993 exchangers are best. I just picked up a set from the sates for $750 shipped. 

He is going to get a custom muffler made for me by a bloke that makes stuff for V8 supercars. Shouldn't cost a stupid amount. 

Do you have to run a CAT? 

hi @jamesb, good info. Thanks. Are you in melb? I'm thinking of contacting some custom exhaust guys, where's your exhaust guy?

can anyone recommend a custom exhaust place in melb?

[Philbee]

Well.... first attempt: I just got a quote to do a custom muffler.... from a highly recommended dude.  My setup is 1 in, 1 out and the current pipes aren't equal length apparently as one side needs to wrap around to meet the other side but the short side doesn't have the extension to equalise the lengths.....so losing mid-range torque I'm told. He can do a hot dog muffler to go right across, not hang low and manoeuvre around the engine (that's good!)... So, as well as muffler, need the pipes upto the headers to all line up. All s.steel, mandrel bends and tig welds, sounds all good so far. I left the big question till last.... ok, how much? That's 4.5 big ones my good friend.   Hello? Are you still there? After picking myself off the floor, I said thanks and then bye. Gotta be a cheaper option.... 

@jamesb...He is going to get a custom muffler made for me by a bloke that makes stuff for V8 supercars. Shouldn't cost a stupid amount.  <-- Any details I can get?

[clutch-monkey]

yeah no, my equal length extractors were about $1000, muffler should not be more than another $1000, still a long way from 4500 haha

[Philbee]

Apparently, my 964 headers don't lend themselves to connect to a 2 in muffler...

Can anyone show me what 964 headers look like?

Tried googling but the interweb is a mess with images of everything but want I'm trying to see.

[81SC]

Can anyone show me what 964 headers look like?

Tried googling but the interweb is a mess with images of everything but want I'm trying to see.

Does this 964 heat exchanger image from the PET help.

[clutch-monkey]

Apparently, my 964 headers don't lend themselves to connect to a 2 in muffler...

Can anyone show me what 964 headers look like?

Tried googling but the interweb is a mess with images of everything but want I'm trying to see.

this is the stock exhaust and why 964 carrera's have single exhaust outlet (have to cut opening for fabspeed muffler etc).

also why it lends itself to a 1 in, 1 out muffler.

you'll need extractors at some point, all this playing around is just putting off the inevitable

Edited 25June, 2017 by clutch-monkey

[Philbee]

this is the stock exhaust and why 964 carrera's have single exhaust outlet (have to cut opening for fabspeed muffler etc).

also why it lends itself to a 1 in, 1 out muffler.

you'll need extractors at some point, all this playing around is just putting off the inevitable

awesome mate, thanks. Just the pic I'm looking for, complete with idiot guide numbered legend!! 

this is the stock exhaust and why 964 carrera's have single exhaust outlet (have to cut opening for fabspeed muffler etc).

also why it lends itself to a 1 in, 1 out muffler.

you'll need extractors at some point, all this playing around is just putting off the inevitable

inevitable?, yes.... I think ur right...

[Philbee]

yeah no, my equal length extractors were about $1000, muffler should not be more than another $1000, still a long way from 4500 haha

my good friend clutchy, dyu know where I can get a custom muff for abt 1k? I'm still looking.... 

So attempt 2 coming up.... Going to see p.fitzgerald racing in box hill this weekend. He reckons maybe 2.5 smackos could do it. Still a lot for just a custom muffler but hey I'm gpwilling to check it out.

[clutch-monkey]

how much is a monty?
surely any 2 in - 2 out muffler would suffice.. pretty sure jack olsen just uses a generic magnaflow unit. same as blitzkonig at the top of the page.

Edited 31July, 2017 by clutch-monkey

[Philbee]

No offense to our mate blitz but I'm not a fan of the half sized muffler look, prefer the full sausage dog muffler. I'm 1 in 1 out and a stock muffler like Monty or dansk apparently doesn't fit cos of my engine, so cneed a custom job.

[clutch-monkey]

No offense to our mate blitz but I'm not a fan of the half sized muffler look, prefer the full sausage dog muffler. I'm 1 in 1 out and a stock muffler like Monty or dansk apparently doesn't fit cos of my engine, so cneed a custom job.

you can get them in longer lengths, they are off the shelf. i may ask my exhaust guy if he can replicate the fabspeed muffler if you want?

[Philbee]

you can get them in longer lengths, they are off the shelf. i may ask my exhaust guy if he can replicate the fabspeed muffler if you want?

thanks @clutch-monkey...appreciate the offer but I have now decided to take the plunge. Yes, got someone to take a 2nd look last weekend and it's come in a lot cheaper, still a bit  expensive in my book but I'm willing to accept the p-tax defeat.... So, I decided to go. Why, you ask? Cos I just want to get it sorted. Also, I forgot to mention this before... the old muffler is flush up pressed against the rear fiberglass bumper, so it gets hot to,touch every time I drive. No heat shield, no space. Needless to say I hate that. 

anyway, getting a custom muffler made up, a satin finish with a couple of polished metal straps and a sports cat replacement. 1-200 cell down from 6-800 cell I'm told. With a fat polished outlet, around 70mm. Booked in for surgery this week, pick up next week. Can't wait... 

And if I can get Flickr to be my new bff I'll attempt a pic upload...