991 GT3 Market watch

[Shedpest]

With that sort of report,  I hope he bought a PDK

[cafe_racer]

That cheap 991.1 with a replaced engine is marked as sold. Some lucky bugger! The cheapest gt3 is now a 997 again

[spiller]

Had a quick look at the blue .1 Clubsport for sale at Richmond’s today whilst there for something else. Grenade motor or not, it is one hot example. 

[SS 3]

Not sure about others here but the 1st time I saw the 991 series GT3 i fell in love with it straight away!! the shape is stunning from all angles, having driven 1 in the hills and on the  track i can honestly say its a big step up from the 997.2. And yes in those environments the PDK was very very good albeit a little pedestrian for me in normal road conditions so heres the thing though..........that elephant in the room - If the engine was ok id have one ☝️ In the garage as we speak.
Personally I’m really looking forward to seeing the 992 version in the flesh; does anyone here have an expression in on one ? PDK or MAN And what model are you moving on from ? 

[DJM]

🤪 removed from market methinks

[DJM]

46 minutes ago, Scott SS964 said:

Not sure about others here but the 1st time I saw the 991 series GT3 i fell in love with it straight away!! the shape is stunning from all angles, having driven 1 in the hills and on the  track i can honestly say its a big step up from the 997.2. And yes in those environments the PDK was very very good albeit a little pedestrian for me in normal road conditions so heres the thing though..........that elephant in the room - If the engine was ok id have one ☝️ In the garage as we speak.
Personally I’m really looking forward to seeing the 992 version in the flesh; does anyone here have an expression in on one ? PDK or MAN And what model are you moving on from ? 

Chatting to PCB guys at Winton today:

- 992 GT3 launch is imminent and they have lots of registrations

- they expect to see owners moving on their 991.2s as they start to firm up 992 orders

- expecting 991.2s to be changing hands at 270-275 as supply increases - suggested that will happen over the next 3 months.  They will definitely fall from low to mid 3s.  They were not aware of the recent 991.2 GT3 Clubsport at Autohaus that sold for $279k but not at all surprised, that’s where they are headed 

- like all GT cars they will bottom out and sit maybe mid 2s so it’s unlikely you’d drop more than 30-40k over the medium to long term if you buy at the right time

- go for PDK all day long especially if track driving - so much better and faster (and you can only over rev if you get airborne 😂)

- highly recommends a .2 GT3 over a .1 RS.  Just as fast but with a much more robust engine.  .1 engine issue was “fixed” but it’s clear the .2 is a belt and braces design after the .1 issues

- in relation to the blue car, they discussed the situation with Germany hoping to get concessions and be able to maintain engine warranty.  Germany were VERY confident the engine would be highly unlikely to be an issue despite the over revs but commercially they would not cover warranty given strict protocols around the ranges of over rev.  They suggested the over rev history will devalue the car significantly.

- GT4 RS - it was stressed his was not an official Porsche announcement but apparently it’s signed off for production, will be released 2021 but we will get very low numbers, PCB hold 20+ registrations which is many more than the number of cars they will be allocated, will be a collector car

- for track and weekend use, definitely get a 991.2 GT3 PDK around 270-275k

Don’t shoot the messenger, just passing on what the guys in the Porsche hats and jackets told me.  

 

 

[NBTBRV8]

2 minutes ago, DJM said:

Chatting to PCB guys at Winton today:

- 992 GT3 launch is imminent and they have lots of registrations

- they expect to see owners moving on their 991.2s as they start to firm up 992 orders

- expecting 991.2s to be changing hands at 270-275 as supply increases - suggested that will happen over the next 3 months.  They will definitely fall from low to mid 3s.  They were not aware of the recent 991.2 GT3 Clubsport at Autohaus that sold for $279k but not at all surprised, that’s where they are headed 

- like all GT cars they will bottom out and sit maybe mid 2s so it’s unlikely you’d drop more than 30-40k over the medium to long term if you buy at the right time

- go for PDK all day long especially if track driving - so much better and faster (and you can only over rev if you get airborne 😂)

- highly recommends a .2 GT3 over a .1 RS.  Just as fast but with a much more robust engine.  .1 engine issue was “fixed” but it’s clear the .2 is a belt and braces design after the .1 issues

- in relation to the blue car, they discussed the situation with Germany hoping to get concessions and be able to maintain engine warranty.  Germany were VERY confident the engine would be highly unlikely to be an issue despite the over revs but commercially they would not cover warranty given strict protocols around the ranges of over rev.  They suggested the over rev history will devalue the car significantly.

- GT4 RS - it was stressed his was not an official Porsche announcement but apparently it’s signed off for production, will be released 2021 but we will get very low numbers, PCB hold 20+ registrations which is many more than the number of cars they will be allocated, will be a collector car

- for track and weekend use, definitely get a 991.2 GT3 PDK around 270-275k

Don’t shoot the messenger, just passing on what the guys in the Porsche hats and jackets told me.  

 

 

Hopefully that means the manuals will be cheaper as nobody will want them

[DJM]

1 minute ago, NBTBRV8 said:

Hopefully that means the manuals will be cheaper as nobody will want them

Yep then you can potter around changing gears at 7000rpm to stay well away from over revs and a potential $100k cocked up downshift 😬

 

[NBTBRV8]

1 minute ago, DJM said:

Yep then you can potter around changing gears at 7000rpm to stay well away from over revs and a potential $100k cocked up downshift 😬

 

Yep, can't say I struggled with the speed of the motor against the redline in the .1 PDK, so will try my chances with the .2.

[SS 3]

7 minutes ago, DJM said:

Chatting to PCB guys at Winton today:

- 992 GT3 launch is imminent and they have lots of registrations

- they expect to see owners moving on their 991.2s as they start to firm up 992 orders

- expecting 991.2s to be changing hands at 270-275 as supply increases - suggested that will happen over the next 3 months.  They will definitely fall from low to mid 3s.  They were not aware of the recent 991.2 GT3 Clubsport at Autohaus that sold for $279k but not at all surprised, that’s where they are headed 

- like all GT cars they will bottom out and sit maybe mid 2s so it’s unlikely you’d drop more than 30-40k over the medium to long term if you buy at the right time

- go for PDK all day long especially if track driving - so much better and faster (and you can only over rev if you get airborne 😂)

- highly recommends a .2 GT3 over a .1 RS.  Just as fast but with a much more robust engine.  .1 engine issue was “fixed” but it’s clear the .2 is a belt and braces design after the .1 issues

- in relation to the blue car, they discussed the situation with Germany hoping to get concessions and be able to maintain engine warranty.  Germany were VERY confident the engine would be highly unlikely to be an issue despite the over revs but commercially they would not cover warranty given strict protocols around the ranges of over rev.  They suggested the over rev history will devalue the car significantly.

- GT4 RS - it was stressed his was not an official Porsche announcement but apparently it’s signed off for production, will be released 2021 but we will get very low numbers, PCB hold 20+ registrations which is many more than the number of cars they will be allocated, will be a collector car

- for track and weekend use, definitely get a 991.2 GT3 PDK around 270-275k

Don’t shoot the messenger, just passing on what the guys in the Porsche hats and jackets told me.  

 

 

Sounds spot on - 290-295 transferred in Vic the 992 imo has enough changes to warrant the 991.2 GT3 owners wanting more to make the shift. Did the mention a base retail number for the 992?

[DJM]

2 minutes ago, Scott SS964 said:

Sounds spot on - 290-295 transferred in Vic the 992 imo has enough changes to warrant the 991.2 GT3 owners wanting more to make the shift. Did the mention a base retail number for the 992?

No.  I asked one of the sales guys on Thursday, he didn’t know.  When I said majority of cars would end up north of 400, he implied not that much.  The blue manual was $378k on road with fairly modest spec so won’t take much of an increase to tip over $400k.

 

[wilson59]

3 hours ago, DJM said:

Chatting to PCB guys at Winton today:

- 992 GT3 launch is imminent and they have lots of registrations

- they expect to see owners moving on their 991.2s as they start to firm up 992 orders

- expecting 991.2s to be changing hands at 270-275 as supply increases - suggested that will happen over the next 3 months.  They will definitely fall from low to mid 3s.  They were not aware of the recent 991.2 GT3 Clubsport at Autohaus that sold for $279k but not at all surprised, that’s where they are headed 

- like all GT cars they will bottom out and sit maybe mid 2s so it’s unlikely you’d drop more than 30-40k over the medium to long term if you buy at the right time

- go for PDK all day long especially if track driving - so much better and faster (and you can only over rev if you get airborne 😂)

- highly recommends a .2 GT3 over a .1 RS.  Just as fast but with a much more robust engine.  .1 engine issue was “fixed” but it’s clear the .2 is a belt and braces design after the .1 issues

- in relation to the blue car, they discussed the situation with Germany hoping to get concessions and be able to maintain engine warranty.  Germany were VERY confident the engine would be highly unlikely to be an issue despite the over revs but commercially they would not cover warranty given strict protocols around the ranges of over rev.  They suggested the over rev history will devalue the car significantly.

- GT4 RS - it was stressed his was not an official Porsche announcement but apparently it’s signed off for production, will be released 2021 but we will get very low numbers, PCB hold 20+ registrations which is many more than the number of cars they will be allocated, will be a collector car

- for track and weekend use, definitely get a 991.2 GT3 PDK around 270-275k

Don’t shoot the messenger, just passing on what the guys in the Porsche hats and jackets told me.  

 

 

Totally different info I got from my guy yesterday.

My way of thinking is I would never get out of my current car for that sort of change over can’t see the value .

You will most likely be buying a car with much high km that is currently on offer for that price 

.

Not that would be an issue . I think a car with 20,000 km plus is still a low km car just insane what GT3 buyers seem to think is high km these days 

[spiller]

^^^ unfortunately GT3 has become a speculators car in that regard. Didn’t AP say the motor was good for 300K? I struggle to see them dropping consistently down to 2 and 3/4 as you wouldn’t think the 992 would be worth a 100K change over. Lots out there that have to have the latest and greatest and the means for it to be inconsequential though so I could be wrong. 

[DJM]

4 minutes ago, spiller said:

^^^ unfortunately GT3 has become a speculators car in that regard. Didn’t AP say the motor was good for 300K? I struggle to see them dropping consistently down to 2 and 3/4 as you wouldn’t think the 992 would be worth a 100K change over. Lots out there that have to have the latest and greatest and the means for it to be inconsequential though so I could be wrong. 

The thinking seems to be driven by a rush of cars onto the market as guys jump for 992s and the supply and demand equation changes which drives down prices.  

I assume many buyers of new Porsche product don’t give a stuff about changeover and depreciation, they dump the old to jump into the new because they want it not because it makes any rational sense.  Porsche do a great job of teasing the next big thing and limiting availability so they can name their price and sell them all.

Wait and see I guess.

[NBTBRV8]

1 minute ago, DJM said:

The thinking seems to be driven by a rush of cars onto the market as guys jump for 992s and the supply and demand equation changes which drives down prices.  

I assume many buyers of new Porsche product don’t give a stuff about changeover and depreciation, they dump the old to jump into the new because they want it not because it makes any rational sense.  Porsche do a great job of teasing the next big thing and limiting availability so they can name their price and sell them all.

Wait and see I guess.

I agree.  Most of the guys I know that buy Porsches new aren't behind in the rent and just buy new because it is the latest model and Porsche never go backwards in their models.  The 992 will accelerate the 991 depreciation schedule, but probably not dramatically as many will be traded in and there won't ever be dozens the market.

4 minutes ago, wilson59 said:

Agreed . My way of thinking is I pay up front for cars as I don’t like financing toys .

The change over would be at $270,000 on a 991.2 for a 992 would be $130,000 change over plus depreciation on a new car add at least $50k after one year ownership.

I can buy another pretty special car for that money and see 991.2 as a long term ride . I know what the better option would be . 
 

When was the last time a new GT3 depreciated in its first 18 months?  That was a long time ago.  Even when the RS is released and the boys jump from the standard 3 to the RS you still don't see a drop of any magnitude.

[wilson59]

18 minutes ago, DJM said:

The thinking seems to be driven by a rush of cars onto the market as guys jump for 992s and the supply and demand equation changes which drives down prices.  

I assume many buyers of new Porsche product don’t give a stuff about changeover and depreciation, they dump the old to jump into the new because they want it not because it makes any rational sense.  Porsche do a great job of teasing the next big thing and limiting availability so they can name their price and sell them all.

Wait and see I guess.

 

 

13 minutes ago, NBTBRV8 said:

I agree.  Most of the guys I know that buy Porsches new aren't behind in the rent and just buy new because it is the latest model and Porsche never go backwards in their models.  The 992 will accelerate the 991 depreciation schedule, but probably not dramatically as many will be traded in and there won't ever be dozens the market.

When was the last time a new GT3 depreciated in its first 18 months?  That was a long time ago.  Even when the RS is released and the boys jump from the standard 3 to the RS you still don't see a drop of any magnitude.

[DJM]

PCB indicated 992 launch is imminent with deliveries from 4th quarter 2021.  They suggested guys will start selling current cars when ordering new cars in coming months.  Different circumstances for each buyer no doubt so they won’t all come at once.

FWIW I’d be happy with a car like the AH one that recently sold  (MY18, Clubsport, 16.5km, $279k).  PCB suggested range 270-275 doesn’t seem a stretch in context of that result.

 

[wilson59]

24 minutes ago, DJM said:

PCB indicated 992 launch is imminent with deliveries from 4th quarter 2021.  They suggested guys will start selling current cars when ordering new cars in coming months.  Different circumstances for each buyer no doubt so they won’t all come at once.

FWIW I’d be happy with a car like the AH one that recently sold  (MY18, Clubsport, 16.5km, $279k).  PCB suggested range 270-275 doesn’t seem a stretch against that result.

 

Agreed . I just don’t get the difference in pricing between a car with 7000 km to 17000 km it seems to be a huge gap to a car that in reality is just as good as each other . I deleted my response in previous quotes as find discussing pricing on speculation just pointless .

[WGA]

For those of you who are interested, the release schedule for GT cars this year is

- January  GT3

- March GTS

- May GT3 Touring

- July GT4 RS

With a couple of others in-between including Taycan Cross Tourismo and a brand new model line the Cayenne Coupe GT. Not GTS, just GT which will be the first of a new model name that will extend across the Porsche model line.

992 Sport Classic will come late in the year.

 

[DJM]

9 hours ago, wilson59 said:

 discussing pricing on speculation just pointless .

Isn’t that the point of this thread, what’s happening in the market and what prices are doing and what each car is worth as they come to market?   It’s huge money for a 2 to 3 year old car so picking the right time to buy could be +/- 40-50k, not chump change.

I for one am very interested in where the market will go and I liked the sound of what PCB had to say.  Can’t see why they’d talk down the market for these cars unless they genuinely believe it.

[spiller]

10 hours ago, DJM said:

The thinking seems to be driven by a rush of cars onto the market as guys jump for 992s and the supply and demand equation changes which drives down prices.  

I assume many buyers of new Porsche product don’t give a stuff about changeover and depreciation, they dump the old to jump into the new because they want it not because it makes any rational sense.  Porsche do a great job of teasing the next big thing and limiting availability so they can name their price and sell them all.

Wait and see I guess.

Very true, the gotta have it factor is a bit part of it. If a number of cars come on the market at once maybe the 991 will suddenly be stuck between classic and the newest thing...i.e. no man’s land! Will be some good deals to be had. Surprised autohaus let that silver one go at that price this early, seller must have been motivated (assuming it was on consignment).

[firstone]

15 hours ago, DJM said:

Chatting to PCB guys at Winton today:

- 992 GT3 launch is imminent and they have lots of registrations

- they expect to see owners moving on their 991.2s as they start to firm up 992 orders

- expecting 991.2s to be changing hands at 270-275 as supply increases - suggested that will happen over the next 3 months.  They will definitely fall from low to mid 3s.  They were not aware of the recent 991.2 GT3 Clubsport at Autohaus that sold for $279k but not at all surprised, that’s where they are headed 

- like all GT cars they will bottom out and sit maybe mid 2s so it’s unlikely you’d drop more than 30-40k over the medium to long term if you buy at the right time

- go for PDK all day long especially if track driving - so much better and faster (and you can only over rev if you get airborne 😂)

- highly recommends a .2 GT3 over a .1 RS.  Just as fast but with a much more robust engine.  .1 engine issue was “fixed” but it’s clear the .2 is a belt and braces design after the .1 issues

- in relation to the blue car, they discussed the situation with Germany hoping to get concessions and be able to maintain engine warranty.  Germany were VERY confident the engine would be highly unlikely to be an issue despite the over revs but commercially they would not cover warranty given strict protocols around the ranges of over rev.  They suggested the over rev history will devalue the car significantly.

- GT4 RS - it was stressed his was not an official Porsche announcement but apparently it’s signed off for production, will be released 2021 but we will get very low numbers, PCB hold 20+ registrations which is many more than the number of cars they will be allocated, will be a collector car

- for track and weekend use, definitely get a 991.2 GT3 PDK around 270-275k

Don’t shoot the messenger, just passing on what the guys in the Porsche hats and jackets told me.  

 

 

Your thoughts on the GT4RS seem logical but I hope some of them get used properly.

Have to be a weapon.

 

[SS 3]

3 hours ago, DJM said:

Isn’t that the point of this thread, what’s happening in the market and what prices are doing and what each car is worth as they come to market?   It’s huge money for a 2 to 3 year old car so picking the right time to buy could be +/- 40-50k, not chump change.

I for one am very interested in where the market will go and I liked the sound of what PCB had to say.  Can’t see why they’d talk down the market for these cars unless they genuinely believe it.

You’re right It is the point of the thread, and yes its certainly not a cheap second hand car.  
As always has been the case though current owners are compelled to justify/talk up values and wanna be owners are always looking for signs indicating depreciation.
Statistics tell us that the 991 versions are not rare cars and lots weren’t purchased by enthusiasts like us on the forum so out of the GT cars you would expect to see the 991.2’s with higher kms than say the 996/997 era and this will be reflected in the value spread.  With Well specced low km cars always sit at the higher end value wise i think it is reasonable to expect a market spread from the say 260-290/300

On new 992 pricing I personally would struggle justifying anything north of 380k too many tasty options out there. I personally look forward to Doug maintaining his efforts in justifying lower prices (just joking) 

3 hours ago, DJM said:

[DJM]

2 hours ago, Scott SS964 said:

I personally look forward to Doug maintaining his efforts in justifying lower prices (just joking) 

 

3 hours ago, firstone said:

Your thoughts on the GT4RS seem logical but I hope some of them get used properly.

On GT3 values and on likelihood of GT4RS being squirreled away, a reminder these were both comments made by PCB...............not me. 

I have NFI but i'll be happy to see more cars changing hands at 2 & 3/4.  But the reality is there are more being listed north of 350 than sub 300 at present which is confusing.

 

[SS 3]

27 minutes ago, DJM said:

 

I have NFI but i'll be happy to see more cars changing hands at 2 & 3/4.  But the reality is there are more being listed north of 350 than sub 300 at present which is confusing.

 

Paitence is your friend take a break from car sales for a month 😂😂😂