991 GT3 Market watch

[spiller]

It may have been discussed already, but do the Aus 991.1 GT3s get the automatic 10 year/160K driveline warranty that was applied to US cars?

I had 90 minutes on track in a 991.1 at Porsche Experience Centre in Atlanta and it was a thoroughly enjoyable experience. The car could do with some exhaust and suspension mods to liven it up a little bit as it’s a tad too soft for my liking.

[GRK930]

991.1 gt3rs with delivery km’s just been bought by a dealer for $350k. I love the 991’s, much better to drive than my 997, but surely now people can’t be seeing them as ‘investments’ still?

[NBTBRV8]

9 hours ago, spiller said:

It may have been discussed already, but do the Aus 991.1 GT3s get the automatic 10 year/160K driveline warranty that was applied to US cars?

I had 90 minutes on track in a 991.1 at Porsche Experience Centre in Atlanta and it was a thoroughly enjoyable experience. The car could do with some exhaust and suspension mods to liven it up a little bit as it’s a tad too soft for my liking.

When I asked the Australian technical director 12 months ago he didn't know anything about it.  Not sure if things have changed since.

[spiller]

3 hours ago, NBTBRV8 said:

When I asked the Australian technical director 12 months ago he didn't know anything about it.  Not sure if things have changed since.

Pretty pathetic that Porsche wouldn’t apply the same warranty to an identical product worldwide. Especially at that price point.

[1q2w3e4r]

Its worldwide.

[DJM]

28 minutes ago, 1q2w3e4r said:

Its worldwide.

Makes that $250k 991.1 GT3 CS good buying 

[NBTBRV8]

New one on the market:

 

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-2015/SSE-AD-5545386

 

[SS 3]

On 7/10/2018 at 1:24 AM, GRK930 said:

991.1 gt3rs with delivery km’s just been bought by a dealer for $350k. I love the 991’s, much better to drive than my 997, but surely now people can’t be seeing them as ‘investments’ still?

RS at $350K? ------  whats going on with the 991.1's there is a virtual flood of cars on the market, which will only create downward pricing pressure in the near term.

Is there a compelling reason why people getting out do we think?

Does anyone know numbers sold in Australia - Then C/S v Touring split?

[NBTBRV8]

38 minutes ago, Scott SS964 said:

RS at $350K? ------  whats going on with the 991.1's there is a virtual flood of cars on the market, which will only create downward pricing pressure in the near term.

Is there a compelling reason why people getting out do we think?

Does anyone know numbers sold in Australia - Then C/S v Touring split?

I think now that there is a new model, those that are in that price bracket want the new better thing i.e. .23, .23RS or 2RS.  These models have all hit the market within quick succession of one another.  Don't forget too, that the .1 3 hasn't been built since 2015, and for most they are weekend toys so don't change hands often when so new.

 

No idea if it is correct, but this guy reckons 23 clubsport.

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-2015/SSE-AD-5447443

[Redracn]

37 minutes ago, Scott SS964 said:

RS at $350K? ------  whats going on with the 991.1's there is a virtual flood of cars on the market, which will only create downward pricing pressure in the near term.

Is there a compelling reason why people getting out do we think?

Does anyone know numbers sold in Australia - Then C/S v Touring split?

I think a lot are trading up and getting out of the non race heritage problematic (camshaft issues) 991.1 GT3 engine to the way superiour 991.2 engine. 

The downward price on these could be good for those that are happy to trust the 10 year engine warranty will be honored but only time will tell if the DLC coatings etc have solved the issues or only delayed them in order to save face for a bit of very poor engineering and testing. 

[SS 3]

12 hours ago, Redracn said:

I think a lot are trading up and getting out of the non race heritage problematic (camshaft issues) 991.1 GT3 engine to the way superiour 991.2 engine. 

The downward price on these could be good for those that are happy to trust the 10 year engine warranty will be honored but only time will tell if the DLC coatings etc have solved the issues or only delayed them in order to save face for a bit of very poor engineering and testing. 

I think you've hit the nail on the head there's a reason why the 991.1 GT3 Cup cars continued to use the 3.8 Mezger engine from the 997.2. until sometime in 2017. While the 997.2 GT3 was the last road generation to feature the Mezger engine, the famous flat six lived on in motorsport circles, powering both the 991 GT3 Cup car and GTE-class 911 RSR (the former in 3.8-litre form, the latter in 4.0-litre guise). I remember an interview back in 2013 where Andreas Preuninger (Porsche's high-performance car manager), stated that "50% of the reason for developing a new race engine was that the Mezger engine was too bespoke and expensive" the rest was around streamlining manufacturing (sharing the road car engine line) and homologating the DFI engine to compete with Ferrari and others.

Over the long term the 991.1 GT3 cars will unfortunately be known for "that engine"; this doesn't mean for one moment that the 991.1GT3 is a bad car; having driven one a number of times I can't believe how fast and capable they are. ....  you know what I'm saying. 

 

[GRK930]

I agree 100%. Going to be hard holding on to my 997.1 when the 991.1’s will be the same price soon. 

[symsy]

On 12 July 2018 at 2:21 AM, GRK930 said:

I agree 100%. Going to be hard holding on to my 997.1 when the 991.1’s will be the same price soon. 

dont do it , just by a cayman PDK and an exhaust and keep the 997  

[StevepGT3]

On 7/12/2018 at 2:21 AM, GRK930 said:

I agree 100%. Going to be hard holding on to my 997.1 when the 991.1’s will be the same price soon. 

Hold on like buggery, as the better coating fix on the cams and followers  is not a redesign, just a bandaid.

[GRK930]

?

[MFX]

On 7/11/2018 at 8:25 PM, Redracn said:

I think a lot are trading up and getting out of the non race heritage problematic (camshaft issues) 991.1 GT3 engine to the way superiour 991.2 engine. 

The downward price on these could be good for those that are happy to trust the 10 year engine warranty will be honored but only time will tell if the DLC coatings etc have solved the issues or only delayed them in order to save face for a bit of very poor engineering and testing. 

This is bang on. After seeing the 991.1 GT3 engine laid out in front of me at Performance Developments the issues are plain to see. If you look at where the oiling comes from, it actually sprays from below the bottom cam and just 'hopes' some of the oil will be flicked up to the top cam. It is a very poor design and DLC coatings is not fixing this inherent issue. PD have a solution for this, but it is around $20k and is quite extensive. Or roll the dice and make sure you flick it before the 10 years is up  

[1q2w3e4r]

19 hours ago, symsy said:

dont do it , just by a cayman PDK and an exhaust and keep the 997  

Agree or get both.  I'd keep the 997 

[NBTBRV8]

On 7/8/2018 at 1:52 PM, NBTBRV8 said:

Yes it is compared to others, but there is no problem dailing one.  More power to him.  I did so in my 997.2 and in 2 years did 35,000kms.  I intend to do that when I get a 991 too.

 

I see Doncaster sold the blue car after a couple of days.  It is strange the owner couldn't do that in the weeks before.  Maybe it was the comfort of having the dealer put an extra 12 month warranty on it.

Doncaster have relisted the blue car at a strong price.

[edgy]

I just flicked back to page 1, turns out I started the thread just over one year ago. 

Back then, only one car had dipped below the 3xx mark, now ALL 8 of the 991.1 are asking in the mid to higher 2's 

A couple of 991.2 asking about the sticker price too... 

What does the collective think? Interesting that the 7.2 pricing is starting overlap the 991.1 

[reggiegums]

This might upset a lot of people but i see no reason why the 997 GT3 prices are the way they are, stubbornly high.

The 991 GT3 engines have had their warranties extended and the 991.2 is coming out in manual form.

Yeah i get Mezger engine but have you seen the specs on the 991?

[NBTBRV8]

12 minutes ago, reggiegums said:

This might upset a lot of people but i see no reason why the 997 GT3 prices are the way they are, stubbornly high.

The 991 GT3 engines have had their warranties extended and the 991.2 is coming out in manual form.

Yeah i get Mezger engine but have you seen the specs on the 991?

I have to agree.  When I was trying to sell mine back in 2015 pre the price jump, I got down to $160k, admittedly it did have high kms but was in fantastic condition even to the point where the buyer said it was better than cars with half its kms.  The thing was that they weren't any more desirable then as there was only the .1 to compare them too and they were $300k.  

Prices went up when there was no manual and engine failure issues dogged the 991.  Now that these have been sorted (for the next few years) and the .2 is on the market and not commanding a premium by the look of the lack of used sales, you would have to say that the market will shift.

My prediction is that the .1 will fall quicker than the 997, but these will fall in line with the .2 over the next couple of years.

 

PS: the guy that bought mine sold it 6 months later and got $45k more than he paid for it.

[edgy]

I think there is a few factors that come into play, the 997 in numbers is relatively scarce, the last of hydraulic steering, Mezger etc are all other factors.. the car is same core as the motorsport car of the era too, where as the 991.1 was not. However given they've gotten back to this formula for the 991.2, its going to be interesting to see what happens long term between 991.1 and 991.2

I'd be interested to see delivery stats for 991 if anyone has them? 

I really think all GT3's are cool cars in their own right, I've driven every iteration of them and owned 2 of 3 generations... I do keep an eye on the market, really for academic purposes, not because I'm in the market to trade,  its kind of interesting to observe. 

I guess at the moment the 997 has larger subjective appeal to the enthusiast base, because the 991 is the newer, better, faster version by all metrics... 

[StevepGT3]

2 hours ago, reggiegums said:

This might upset a lot of people but i see no reason why the 997 GT3 prices are the way they are, stubbornly high.

The 991 GT3 engines have had their warranties extended and the 991.2 is coming out in manual form.

Yeah i get Mezger engine but have you seen the specs on the 991?

See 996 value compared to 993.

A warranty extension does not fix a design fault, when the music stops a lot of people are going to be left without a chair.

[SS 3]

On 7/18/2018 at 10:54 AM, reggiegums said:

This might upset a lot of people but i see no reason why the 997 GT3 prices are the way they are, stubbornly high.

The 991 GT3 engines have had their warranties extended and the 991.2 is coming out in manual form.

Yeah i get Mezger engine but have you seen the specs on the 991?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion so its all good,  this is just my story...

My GT3 story is as follows 996.2GT3CS 8 years mixture of track work and spirited country drives; from there my car of choice was a 997.2GT3CS however I did I think at the time about upgrading to the 991.1. I drove a few 991.1's I just felt that they drove so different to what I was used to it was a such step change from my then 996 i remember quite distinctly thinking at the time that they were such a fast car when you were on it..... way too fast for the road and when driven sedately I found it absolutely numbingly boring.I have heard that they are awesome on the track which i don't doubt. In comparison the 997.2 just felt so involving/engaging and tactile all the time wether on the track or just cruising down the street; the cock pit embraces you the steering feedback is crazy how good it is.

When they announced the 991.2 GT3 will have a manual I thought this is the car for me and subsequently placed an expression of interest and received a build slot ..... this then started me thinking about what I wanted from cars what I really enjoyed etc etc I'm sure you all know the process.

As the 991.2 build slots took forever I had plenty of time to think and talk with people whom opinions I valued. In the end I decided that the 997.2 GT3 met my needs and some.... even though still relatively young in years it still features so much of that classic 911 feel that I love.-- In comparison the 991 911 took a step change as described earlier, those changes didn't actually appeal to me. I was looking for a different feel, maybe a more familiar one, something that evoked a different emotion, more emotion. Nothing against the 991's from me personally, but I see strong support for the "real drivers cars" into the future in much the same way the Mechanical Watch is more popular than ever before.

instead of buying new I decided to purchase another older 911 as well, one that I had lusted after since it was introduced in 1994, I purchased a standard 94 993 C2 manual. 

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE FOLLOWING?

If we look 10 years out all 911 GT3 N/A petrol engined cars will be highly desirable compared to what will be on offer. I am hearing of guys in their late 20's and early 30's who are not able to buy these GT cars as yet fearing that they may never be able to. Meaning that the they are thinking the performance car as we know will be killed off in the very near  future with the on set of hybrid / electric car becoming main stream. The school of thought is that the older cars (N/A petrol engined in particular) will be so desirable that they will be forever unobtainable.

 

 

 

[StevepGT3]

22 minutes ago, Scott SS964 said:

Everyone is entitled to an opinion so its all good,  this is just my story...

My GT3 story is as follows 996.2GT3CS 8 years mixture of track work and spirited country drives; from there my car of choice from there was a 997.2GT3CS however I did I think about upgrading to the 991.1. I drove a few 991.1's I just felt that they drove so different to what I was used to it was a such step change from the 996 i remember quite distinctly thinking at the time that they were such a fast car when you were on it..... way too fast for the road and when driven sedately I found it absolutely numbingly boring.I have heard that they are awesome on the track which i don't doubt. In comparison the 997.2 just felt so involving/engaging and tactile all the time wether on the track or just cruising down the street; the cock pit embraces you the steering feedback is crazy how good it is.

When they announced the 991.2 GT3 will have a manual I thought this is the car for me and subsequently placed an expression of interest and received a build slot ..... this then started me thinking about what I wanted from cars what I really enjoyed etc etc I'm sure you all know the process.

As the 991.2 build slots took forever I had plenty of time to think and talk with people whom opinions I valued. In the end I decided that the 997.2 GT3 met my needs and some.... even though still relatively young in years it still features so much of that classic 911 feel that I love.-- In comparison the 991 911 took a step change as described earlier, those changes didn't actually appeal to me. I was looking for a different feel, something that evoked a different emotion.

I decided to purchase another 911 as well one that I had lusted after since it was introduced in 1994, I purchased a standard 94 993 C2 manual. 

If we look 10 years out all 911 GT3 N/A petrol engined cars will be highly desirable compared to what will be on offer. I am hearing of guys in their late 20's and early 30's who are not able to buy these GT cars as yet fearing that they may never be able to. Meaning that the they are thinking the performance car as we know will be killed off in the very near  future with the on set of hybrid / electric car becoming main stream. The school of thought is that the older cars (N/A petrol engined in particular) will be so desirable that they will be forever unobtainable.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

 

 

Spot on, the 7 Gt3 feels,sounds and smells like an effing fast aircooled.