991 GT3 Market watch

[356993???]

4 hours ago, Scott SS964 said:

Everyone is entitled to an opinion so its all good,  this is just my story...

My GT3 story is as follows 996.2GT3CS 8 years mixture of track work and spirited country drives; from there my car of choice was a 997.2GT3CS however I did I think at the time about upgrading to the 991.1. I drove a few 991.1's I just felt that they drove so different to what I was used to it was a such step change from my then 996 i remember quite distinctly thinking at the time that they were such a fast car when you were on it..... way too fast for the road and when driven sedately I found it absolutely numbingly boring.I have heard that they are awesome on the track which i don't doubt. In comparison the 997.2 just felt so involving/engaging and tactile all the time wether on the track or just cruising down the street; the cock pit embraces you the steering feedback is crazy how good it is.

When they announced the 991.2 GT3 will have a manual I thought this is the car for me and subsequently placed an expression of interest and received a build slot ..... this then started me thinking about what I wanted from cars what I really enjoyed etc etc I'm sure you all know the process.

As the 991.2 build slots took forever I had plenty of time to think and talk with people whom opinions I valued. In the end I decided that the 997.2 GT3 met my needs and some.... even though still relatively young in years it still features so much of that classic 911 feel that I love.-- In comparison the 991 911 took a step change as described earlier, those changes didn't actually appeal to me. I was looking for a different feel, maybe a more familiar one, something that evoked a different emotion, more emotion. Nothing against the 991's from me personally, but I see strong support for the "real drivers cars" into the future in much the same way the Mechanical Watch is more popular than ever before.

instead of buying new I decided to purchase another older 911 as well, one that I had lusted after since it was introduced in 1994, I purchased a standard 94 993 C2 manual. 

 

 

 

 

After just driving (in this order) a 991.2 C4S, 991.1 GT3 CS, 997 GT2, and 991 GT3RS the sentiments above from Scott hold true for me too...within all of 100-200 metres behind the wheel, I picked the 997 GT2 as the car i wanted. Driving the RS after it didn’t change my mind. All the 991 cars were very refined, and fast, but the 997 just felt right to me. Now I want one..

Also the car that secondly most impressed me was the new C4S. It was very punchy with the new drivetrain. And just a great car to drive.

I guess it’s similar to finding a new pair of runners - the ones that look best to you on the shelf, when you try them first on, then walk a few metres, you find that sometimes they just aren’t the best fit for you despite the marketing saying they are ‘the best’ or ‘top of the range’.

[1q2w3e4r]

997 GT2 = ducks guts

[NBTBRV8]

My thoughts are that each generation gets more refined so you have to start driving at sillier speeds to get the same buzz.

 

However for this of us that have had a 997 and want something of the same vein but different,  then the next generation is the logical option.

[hugh]

I get that some people just have to have the latest & greatest and that's fine. But in all honesty, unless you are planning to track it and chase some serious lap times the 991 GT3 is just too much car for most (especially here in OZ). Even then you'd be surprised at what a new std Boxster or Cayman can achieve, most people barely reach the potential of those let alone a new GT3.

I understand it doesn't satisfy the ego as much but we have come to a point in time where the capability of new sports cars heavily outweigh the capabilities of the typical driver.

Cars will continue to get faster but in doing so will be need to be made increasingly safer via technology. If you just want to go fast without risking life and limb its helpful but unfortunately it comes at the expense of the driving experience and you are forced to push harder and harder to get the fizz, 200 then 300km/h etc. etc. Its a different type of experience potentially for a different generation of user (making me sound like an old man!) but it's not something that really excites me. I'm much more of a slow car fast kind of guy, my 996 GT3 is way fast enough for me................yes, admittedly slow when compared to a 991. 

I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about a 991 but it could only be justified (somewhat ironically) if I was going to track and compete in it. I'm just not at a 250k+ track car just yet though unfortunately. 

 

 

[StevepGT3]

8 hours ago, hugh said:

I get that some people just have to have the latest & greatest and that's fine. But in all honesty, unless you are planning to track it and chase some serious lap times the 991 GT3 is just too much car for most (especially here in OZ). Even then you'd be surprised at what a new std Boxster or Cayman can achieve, most people barely reach the potential of those let alone a new GT3.

I understand it doesn't satisfy the ego as much but we have come to a point in time where the capability of new sports cars heavily outweigh the capabilities of the typical driver.

Cars will continue to get faster but in doing so will be need to be made increasingly safer via technology. If you just want to go fast without risking life and limb its helpful but unfortunately it comes at the expense of the driving experience and you are forced to push harder and harder to get the fizz, 200 then 300km/h etc. etc. Its a different type of experience potentially for a different generation of user (making me sound like an old man!) but it's not something that really excites me. I'm much more of a slow car fast kind of guy, my 996 GT3 is way fast enough for me................yes, admittedly slow when compared to a 991. 

I'd be lying if I said I haven't thought about a 991 but it could only be justified (somewhat ironically) if I was going to track and compete in it. I'm just not at a 250k+ track car just yet though unfortunately. 

 

 

Deja vu with bikes back in the 90`s, they kept on getting faster and faster, yet very few could ride them and it wasn`t uncommon to see disillusionment when a 20 year old bike would go around the outside of a  brand new, latest and greatest hyper weapon.

[edgy]

3 hours ago, hugh said:

my 996 GT3 is way fast enough for me................yes, admittedly slow when compared to a 991. 

I've gotta correct you, that is just the biggest fallacy when people make the remark the new stuff is "faster" 

Check our last club sprint results, most GT3's (and GT4) are in the 1.05 mark +/- .01 

 

 

The new stuff is fast out of the box yes, the guys who work hard to develop their skills and setups in the old stuff are still in the mix with the new era car. 

But from what I can see with the 991.1 RS, those and the 991.2 RS are going to put an end to the chase for us old mezger boys without going down the open heart surgery route... they are scary fast. 

[Teutonic]

Will be interesting to see how low the 991.1 cars go. I think the legacy of the early engine issues and the fact that the .2 had a significant engine upgrade (4.0 with racing pedigree) among other things, they might find themselves being a bit unloved. 

There is no doubt you can get the air cooled stuff to hold their own. My gut feel is the weight penalty of the new stuff hurts them most. My old G body shows a clean set of heels to 991 GT3RS’s.   But if I had to drive something cross country like mainland Europe and hit some mountain passes and trackdays, I think I would be arriving in much better shape in a 991.  

[hugh]

5 hours ago, edgy said:

I've gotta correct you, that is just the biggest fallacy when people make the remark the new stuff is "faster" 

Driver is the (huge) variable though. Same driver 996 vs 991 - 991 will come out on top, every time. 

I'm happy to test the theory if someone want to lend me their 991 for a lap around Phillip Island? I'd have no doubt I'd be quicker in a GT4 or 991 GT3 than in my 996, no 2 ways about it. 

[Jason A]

21 minutes ago, hugh said:

Driver is the (huge) variable though. Same driver 996 vs 991 - 991 will come out on top, every time. 

I'm happy to test the theory if someone want to lend me their 991 for a lap around Phillip Island? I'd have no doubt I'd be quicker in a GT4 or 991 GT3 than in my 996, no 2 ways about it. 

Hi @hugh to be scientifically accurate we should conduct this test at the bottom of Australia and half way up. So I will duplicate the test here at lakeside here in Brisbane. Just to be comprehensive - just need some generous people to donate some cars to the experiment. I promise to be careful. ?

[Redracn]

Looks like a bit of comparing apples to oranges. Modified to unmodified etc. going on. 

At club level the steering wheel to seat spacer is the biggest variable then tires and suspension. Power is way down the list. 

One of the biggest problem for modern cars is the availability of really good tires and there is the weight. 

It is my view that with equivalent drivers, modification, tires etc the newer car is faster. Thats progress? But then again the so called older car also benifits from modern tires, shocks, suspension bushing, brakes etc so is it really an old car or a remanufactured one.

[Teutonic]

^^^ For sure. Stock for stock no doubt the new stuff is faster and with the electronic aids I expect easier to be fast in. 

[edgy]

1 hour ago, hugh said:

Driver is the (huge) variable though. Same driver 996 vs 991 - 991 will come out on top, every time. 

I'm happy to test the theory if someone want to lend me their 991 for a lap around Phillip Island? I'd have no doubt I'd be quicker in a GT4 or 991 GT3 than in my 996, no 2 ways about it. 

My point is, the performance delta isn’t as wide as it’s made out to be. 

You do not need to do radical mods to give chase to a 991. 

[Redracn]

1 hour ago, edgy said:

My point is, the performance delta isn’t as wide as it’s made out to be. 

You do not need to do radical mods to give chase to a 991. 

But not all mods that make a car significantly faster could be described as radical? Just setting up the suspension geometry and good tires can make a big difference. 

[edgy]

19 minutes ago, Redracn said:

But not all mods that make a car significantly faster could be described as radical? Just setting up the suspension geometry and good tires can make a big difference. 

Pretty much all I’ve done 

[hugh]

"The GT3 is completely stock except for an Akrapovic Evolution Race exhaust and a (factory) roll cage. Tyres are Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's." 

 

[GTP911]

Raise that to: 1982 XE Ford Falcon S pack. Original matching numbers 351 built to Targa's standard spec Tech regs. Approx 200kw, 1600kg plus crew, factory diff, factory gearbox, off the shelf koni shocks but balanced, set up and engine built by the best. Don't need 500hp for a big car to be competitive.

 

 

[SS 3]

22 minutes ago, hugh said:

"The GT3 is completely stock except for an Akrapovic Evolution Race exhaust and a (factory) roll cage. Tyres are Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's." 

 

Same Car sounds awesome!!

[hugh]

18 minutes ago, Windsor289 said:

Don't need 500hp for a big car to be competitive.

Not to mention a big set of kahunas! 

[Redracn]

1 hour ago, edgy said:

Pretty much all I’ve done 

On rereading I slightly misinterpreted your post and just repeated what you said. Probably the good red just kicking in. Yep lots to gain from simple mods. I use the 80/20 rule as it applies in lots of situations. 

[edgy]

22 minutes ago, Redracn said:

On rereading I slightly misinterpreted your post and just repeated what you said. Probably the good red just kicking in. Yep lots to gain from simple mods. I use the 80/20 rule as it applies in lots of situations. 

No sweat, what’s the red? ? 

And there’s a lot to be said for the right setup for sure! ? 

[Redracn]

55 minutes ago, edgy said:

No sweat, what’s the red? ? 

And there’s a lot to be said for the right setup for sure! ? 

Nice drop from the Heathcote region. 

[Mick]

Last club sprint @ lakeside in a stock 996 gt3 on street continentals 60.8 I was the fastest in the last session of the day and would be confident with a better brake pad and a couple of sway bar changes to get into the high 59’s. Without doubt one of the best days I’ve had at lakeside for years. That being said I did see a 991.1 gt3 do a 59.2 so I too would be quite happy to back to back my 996 to a 991 if anyone feels like handing me the keys ?

[Jason A]

Hi Mick I can attest to you having fun. I was chasing you around during the passenger ride laps at end of day with my daughter in my 74s with 993 body and Rothmans livery. She did tap me on the knee and ask me to slow down - so I obeyed. Was on Toyo 888 - that are 3 years old. Need to get on some Hoosiers so I can carry some more corner speed and brake a bit later. Should be a 58 in my car if it gets driven properly. My first time back at Lakeside in 8 years - I love that track.

[Mick]

51 minutes ago, Jason A said:

Hi Mick I can attest to you having fun. I was chasing you around during the passenger ride laps at end of day with my daughter in my 74s with 993 body and Rothmans livery. She did tap me on the knee and ask me to slow down - so I obeyed. Was on Toyo 888 - that are 3 years old. Need to get on some Hoosiers so I can carry some more corner speed and brake a bit later. Should be a 58 in my car if it gets driven properly. My first time back at Lakeside in 8 years - I love that track.

Yeah was a blast I took my uncle for those laps and had a fairly good heart attack when the hand brake warning light came on the dash as he grabbed the hand brake as a grab handle just before turning in under the old bridge ? found myself turning in one handed taking his hand off the hand brake as I turned in Hahahaha i still have night mares about what might have happened ??

[MFX]

17 hours ago, Mick said:

Yeah was a blast I took my uncle for those laps and had a fairly good heart attack when the hand brake warning light came on the dash as he grabbed the hand brake as a grab handle just before turning in under the old bridge ? found myself turning in one handed taking his hand off the hand brake as I turned in Hahahaha i still have night mares about what might have happened ??

Wow, that sounds like a scary situation. Was he trying to get you to slow down, or was he just looking for something to hang on to? Either way, that could have been very messy!