ANF Posted 27July, 2017 Report Share Posted 27July, 2017 Well they have to give Toyota a chance at winning the 24! I can see LMP1 gone, and LMP2 the premier class for privateer teams to be able to have a good crack at outright victory. There will be some sort of back door factory involvement no doubt It's inevitable that most high end manufacturers will be involved in Scalextric racing to satisfy all the governments 'clean vehicle' bollocks, and have the sooky hipsters saying 'Yeah man, Porsche is eco friendly coz we forced them into it', though it still won't make the series any better to watch or listen toThe FIA will do all they can to keep it's premier class alive! BMW are coming back to GT next year, maybe they can step back with the big boys after that? Hope so!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 27July, 2017 Report Share Posted 27July, 2017 I better get started on a battery of batteries.Don't start to early as they (The trendy Batteries) have a limited life so you have to buy more in 10 years. Best to get the tried and proven tech such as Nickel Ironhttp://www.ironcorebatteries.com.au/page5.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 28July, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 28July, 2017 Don't start to early as they (The trendy Batteries) have a limited life so you have to buy more in 10 years. Best to get the tried and proven tech such as Nickel Ironhttp://www.ironcorebatteries.com.au/page5.php Is there an on-line calculator that'll tell me how many I need to power a medium sized McMansion? Hot Tub, Cool Room, Wine Fridges, Heated Garage, Garden up lighting, Slab heating, heated pool, 6 TV's, just the usual... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 28July, 2017 Report Share Posted 28July, 2017 Is there an on-line calculator that'll tell me how many I need to power a medium sized McMansion? Hot Tub, Cool Room, Wine Fridges, Heated Garage, Garden up lighting, Slab heating, heated pool, 6 TV's, just the usual... Pfft! What sort of McMansion can only fit 6 TVs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Speedway Posted 28July, 2017 Report Share Posted 28July, 2017 Formula E is like materbating in public. Just cause you can do it. Doesn't mean you should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 31July, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 31July, 2017 Nah, this Formula E thing will never take off. Porsche have resolved to enter and solve the great Exhaust Conundrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 31July, 2017 Report Share Posted 31July, 2017 E-Harleys? Can't see that happening either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 31July, 2017 Report Share Posted 31July, 2017 Exhaust Conundrum.Much more interesting than Formula dreary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 31July, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 31July, 2017 Much more interesting than Formula dreary... The real reason Webber eTired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 1August, 2017 Report Share Posted 1August, 2017 The reason it will never work....."In Formula E, all teams use the same car, but the drivetrain and electric motor can be modified and developed individually. Each team’s car will be slightly and subtly different." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 1August, 2017 Report Share Posted 1August, 2017 The reason it will never work....."In Formula E, all teams use the same car, but the drivetrain and electric motor can be modified and developed individually. Each team’s car will be slightly and subtly different."Yep its just a show, nothing to do with the best tech and engineering and absolutely nothing to do with research and development. Its just a marketing platform. There should only be one rule. No hydrocarbon fuel. Everything else should be free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 1August, 2017 Report Share Posted 1August, 2017 Curiosity got the better of me so I looked up the rules.....Fanboost - you can vote for your favourite driver and the ones (3) with the most votes get additional power to use in the race WTF! "Follow the progress of your favourite driver via the live FanBoost leaderboard which monitors real-time voting. As well as being able to vote during the race, fans will also find it much easier to have their say as changes to the voting system will make it possible to vote using a hashtag on Twitter and Instagram." It is twitter and Instagram racing - FFS!Qualifying is set at 200 kW max power while the race is set at 170 kW, again WTF? So with max power set how do manufacturers think they can gain an edge by "tuning".... Races are 50 minutes and they need to change cars as they wont last.... and this is the future of automobile racing that the big manufacturers and blindly jumping onto, again FFS!!At least we will have memories of what racing was...... long live Lemans classic et al, for however long we will be allowed to burn dino fuel..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 1August, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 1August, 2017 Yep its just a show, nothing to do with the best tech and engineering and absolutely nothing to do with research and development. Its just a marketing platform. There should only be one rule. No hydrocarbon fuel. Everything else should be free. Whilst Fe should be considered a test bed for the rapid development of engines and batteries and the systems to manage them, do we need an open formula, could it work or would it ultimately devolve into a university solar challenge?History is littered with unsuccessful motorsport formulae where massive amounts have been invested by 'the manufacturers' for them all to exit when the reality that there's only one winner dawns.Why not contain costs by using a standard chassis setup (works in V8's, DTM etc), after all who cares about the chassis, aero etc? It should be all about the drivetrain, motor and energy storage system and the software which manages it. Focusing the spend in that area.All the manufacturers require some sort of budgetary realism to commit, and for the series to provide their engineers a basis for accelerating relative technological development and marketing opportunities which can then be applied within the corporation.Clarkson; "Allow me to introduce a bloke who works in the marketing department of an energy drinks maker; Mark Webber"Unfortunately we're heading for several nadirs and I'm pretty sure the future will be different from the past for motorsport fans, we can adapt and adopt or race our Tarax crate billy carts downhill...It's certainly early days in the evolution of Fe, but rather than doubt perhaps we should support it and see how it develops, nothing living is static. It'll change once the big guns and their motorsport histories set up camp.Races are 50 minutes and they need to change cars as they wont last.... and this is the future of automobile racing that the big manufacturers and blindly jumping onto, again FFS!!Blindly! Try getting $20Mill/annum out of a big corporate... I'm considering starting another thread on why I despise truck racing, and how pointless it is....belch, belch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 1August, 2017 Report Share Posted 1August, 2017 after all who cares about the chassis, aero etc? Porsche do (hoping they still do....) it was what they were founded on, the small lightweight car that out handled and out braked the bigger guys. Porsche dynamics (to me and a lot out there) is always more important that outright power.Fundanmentally differing views on what motorsport is about...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 2August, 2017 Report Share Posted 2August, 2017 .Why not contain costs by using a standard chassis setup (works in V8's, DTM etc), after all who cares about the chassis, aero etc? It should be all about the drivetrain, motor and energy storage system and the software which manages it. Focusing the spend in that area. How do you do any development when containing cost? V8s, DTM are a cookie cutter categories where development has been virtually halted and have no innovation at all. You should care about chassis and especially areo as effeciency (using the least power to go the fastest and furthest) is THE most important thing EV or otherwise so it makes no sense at all to ignore it. You want fast, rapid development then let the manufactures go for it with their R&D and Marketing budgets combined. The way it currently stands they are in a race to see who is the worlds best marketing company which is of no benefit to us the consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 2August, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 2August, 2017 Porsche do (hoping they still do....) it was what they were founded on, the small lightweight car that out handled and out braked the bigger guys. Porsche dynamics (to me and a lot out there) is always more important that outright power.Fundanmentally differing views on what motorsport is about......Like the Panamera and Cayenne? Or maybe the porky 911....oh that's right, that's what the market demands, sorry.How do you do any development when containing cost? V8s, DTM are a cookie cutter categories where development has been virtually halted and have no innovation at all. You should care about chassis and especially areo as effeciency (using the least power to go the fastest and furthest) is THE most important thing EV or otherwise so it makes no sense at all to ignore it. You want fast, rapid development then let the manufactures go for it with their R&D and Marketing budgets combined. The way it currently stands they are in a race to see who is the worlds best marketing company which is of no benefit to us the consumer.You're taking it too literally. Spend only on drive system, storage and management of both, go nuts in that area. You don't seriously believe, firstly, that in regard to automotive aero development we pretty much don't already know 95% of what's going to be known, and secondly that an open wheel formula assists, in aero development terms, a passenger CAR maker, now, after 30+ years of intensive aero dev? I'm curious to understand what you think is currently the closest automobile motorsport formula to your idea of perfection, and enjoyment?You too Adam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 2August, 2017 Report Share Posted 2August, 2017 You're taking it too literally. Spend only on drive system, storage and management of both, go nuts in that area. You don't seriously believe, firstly, that in regard to automotive aero development we pretty much don't already know 95% of what's going to be known, and secondly that an open wheel formula assists, in aero development terms, a passenger CAR maker, now, after 30+ years of intensive aero dev? I'm curious to understand what you think is currently the closest automobile motorsport formula to your idea of perfection, and enjoyment?You too Adam.You seem to have forgotten that Active Aero is a relatively new development with much still to be done. Ever wonder how the Huracán Performante did its Porsche smashing lap of the ring. Or how the latest 991.2 GT3 with no active areo has 20% more downforce than its predecessor with NO extra drag. Aero is a computational nightmare and we are nowhere near having the computing power or knowledge to model it accurately. Progress is being made of course but there is a long way to go. For now it is still the wind-tunnel and experiments like the relatively recent rolling road wind-tunnel being a big improvement over a static floor one. Hence the GT3 outcome. If Formula car aero is all done and dusted then why did F1 aero change all the time and why do they have rules to prevent further aero development.Without low rolling resistance Tyres EV would have an even more pathetic range. EV range is all about effeciency.I would argue that as far as the electric motors and control of them that there is not much more to be gained. We are already over 90% efficient and 100% is not possible. So not a lot to gain here maybe a percent or two at most. We have had more than enough computing power and suitable power electronics for some time now along with rare earth magnets. All the low hanging fruit has been picked and any future gains in efficiency (turning electricity into mechanical work) will be small and incremental. And unlike aero the electronics and electric motors can be reasonably accurately modeled. Its the Batteries that are holding EV back and without a big step here we are relying on efficiency gains to maximise the very limited amount of energy stored in the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 2August, 2017 Report Share Posted 2August, 2017 None of the current formats are perfect, but for me WEC is what I like the most and about all I am really interested in, I have always loved the sports prototypes.I cannot get behind a formula, which (by the looks of who it is attracting) is trying to be the top formula, that gives extra performance to the most popular driver! That and the one chassis rule.... if they are serious make it like formula 1 or the current WEC, set rules that allow some individuality and let them shine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 2August, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 2August, 2017 You seem to have forgotten that Active Aero....If Formula car areo is all done and dusted then why did F1 areo change all the time and why do they have rules to prevent further areo development.Without low rolling resistance Tyres EV would have an even more pathetic range. EV range is all about effeciency.I would argue that as far as the electric motors and control of them that there is not much more to be gained. ....Its the Batteries that are holding EV back and without a big step here we are relying on efficiency gains to maximise the very limited amount of energy stored in the battery.I appreciate the reminder on active aero, and I had forgotten! I wonder about it's real world application other than weapons, planes, trains, and race cars. Through it's continued development what benefits can be expected at 60km/h (in a 40 zone..!) in any manner other than which they currently couldn't be achieved were cost not an impediment? F1 aero restriction seems to be about cost containment and a desire to level or more likely dishevel the field. 600 guys working on gaining a poofteenth per lap whilst deploying a $100Mill wind tunnel. Diminishing returns I'd say. I struggle to see the consumer durable application. One can only imagine the size of Boeing's aero dept.I defer to you on all matters Electrical and Battery...as you know. But live in hope of the great life changing discoveries that may one day occur in order to rationalize all the investment in (motorsport!) education, research, development and heading down worm holes.I'll watch Fe with great interest to see how it develops as both an entertainment spectacle and driver of applicable technology. None of the current formats are perfect, but for me WEC is what I like the most and about all I am really interested in, I have always loved the sports prototypes.Fuel (energy) restricted formula? Pit stops for fuel, car can't make the distance! Small 4 cylinder exhaust note masking the whirring...I know, it's the epic nature of the long race format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 2August, 2017 Report Share Posted 2August, 2017 Blah blah blaaaaaaaah Another thread I have to ban myself from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 2August, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 2August, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 2August, 2017 Report Share Posted 2August, 2017 I appreciate the reminder on active aero, and I had forgotten! I wonder about it's real world application other than weapons, planes, trains, and race cars. Through it's continued development what benefits can be expected at 60km/h (in a 40 zone..!) in any manner other than which they currently couldn't be achieved were cost not an impediment? F1 aero restriction seems to be about cost containment and a desire to level or more likely dishevel the field. 600 guys working on gaining a poofteenth per lap whilst deploying a $100Mill wind tunnel. Diminishing returns I'd say. I struggle to see the consumer durable application. One can only imagine the size of Boeing's aero dept.I defer to you on all matters Electrical and Battery...as you know. But live in hope of the great life changing discoveries that may one day occur in order to rationalize all the investment in (motorsport!) education, research, development and heading down worm holes.I'll watch Fe with great interest to see how it develops as both an entertainment spectacle and driver of applicable technology.Fuel (energy) restricted formula? Pit stops for fuel, car can't make the distance! Small 4 cylinder exhaust note masking the whirring...I know, it's the epic nature of the long race format. Currently it is all about efficiency as EV and ICE both benefit. Lower rolling resistance, reduced friction, less air drag, less parasitic loss in the drivetrain. Less weight. Improved engine efficiency (Turbo) etc. This is all really fine tuning. This is costing a lot in R&D in all areas as the easy stuff is already done. I think we all live in hope of a life changing discovery but I will not be holding my breath. The solar race from Darwin to Adelaide attracts a lot of spectators and followers. Opps got that wrong. Its a boring as watching grass grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 3August, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 3August, 2017 Molto interessante! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANF Posted 3August, 2017 Report Share Posted 3August, 2017 @KGB new job title - marketing/ promotion and PR person for Formula E! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 3August, 2017 Author Report Share Posted 3August, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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