Germany & Belgium Motorsport adventures

[DJM]

Good to see ze Germans (and Dutch, Poms and Czechs) using cars as the maker intended at Nurburgring Nordschleife  yesterday.  Probably 25 x 991 GT3 on track yesterday and half of those in RS form.  And a few 996s and 997s, only a couple of older G body cars.

Couple of Nobles and a matt black Gumpert Apollo and dozens of M3s in E46 & E92 flavour

https://instagram.com/p/Ba5dGtZh5k3/

did half a dozen laps in this, great fun and returned it undamaged avoiding the 28k Euro excess!   The rear view of a 991 RS and modified M4 blasting past at full noise, sound echoing off the Armco and forest is something that will stick with me for life.  The locals drive seriously hard around there.  Hard to fathom how you could race a fast car around that place, such a technically difficult circuit with zero runoff. Wow, what a day.

https://www.facebook.com/craig.popowski/posts/10156005856844155

 

 

 

 

[LeeM]

 Bastard ??

[Lucky Phil]

I am heading there next year so @DJM we will have to have a catch up to discuss what to do and what not to do

[DJM]

 Bastard ??

looks like planets will align and we might do GT3 at Spa on Saturday too ?

I am heading there next year so @DJM we will have to have a catch up to discuss what to do and what not to do

no worries, epic day yesterday.  Brekkie at Zuffenhausen as I type waiting for museum and dealership to open.  Here’s how it looked early this morning

https://instagram.com/p/Ba51fTUhnGH/

a few sneaky 991.2 GT3s in the factory yard including a baby blue one

https://instagram.com/p/Ba51mVwBjGe/

 

 

[scashin]

I'll be there next year.  Can't wait!

[MFX]

Sorry what were you driving around the Nordschlife?

[DJM]

Sorry what were you driving around the Nordschlife?

E92 M3 V8, was fast enough to scare me without risking 100k Euro excess of a 991 GT3

[MFX]

E92 M3 V8, was fast enough to scare me without risking 100k Euro excess of a 991 GT3

Absolutely. I have already looked at heading over there and I think a Renault Megane RS would be plenty for me on that track  

[DJM]

Absolutely. I have already looked at heading over there and I think a Renault Megane RS would be plenty for me on that track  

We had BMW 125i last time (2013) and found it underpowered.  M3 felt too fast initially but over 6 laps each it turned out to be perfect.  Plenty of poke, handled and braked really well and was enough to be a bit scary.  We hit 240 on a couple of fast sections in the M3, the 125i ran out of puff. I wanted rear drive and theatre which the M3 delivered in spades.

https://www.facebook.com/craig.popowski/posts/10156005856844155

we rented from ring garage who were great very relaxed and they have brand new apartments for rent 70 Euro as part of the same building as their garage.  Short drive maybe 8km to the track.  RSR are be big name very close to the track but much more stringent, onerous cancellation policies, crazy excess etc.

Thw Instructor Ring Garage provided charges 50 Euro per lap and if you use an instructor they significantly reduce the excess from 28k to around 18k.  We ended up taking 2 laps each with the instructor and 4 each on our own.  Isntructoe knew every corner, every braking and turn in point, every dangerous section etc and 1 lap was not enough to take it all in.  6 laps in total each was enough, mentally exhausted!

Porsche Museum was cool but quite a few cars unchanged from 2013.  Feature display was 4WD and Cayenne development which I was not that keen on.  Great building and some cool stuff

https://instagram.com/p/Ba6d6s8BUUH/

[MFX]

Sounds like an awesome experience, and the tip on using Ring Garage over RSR is a good one. 

 

 

BTW your Facebook link is not working for me. It may be your settings only allowing your contacts to see it.

[DJM]

A tip for Porsche - check public holidays....we were in Stuttgart for 2 days and both were public holidays (31/10 reformation day, 1/11 all saints day).  Museums were open - phew (Porsche & Mercedes) but Porsche dealership wasn’t and factory was not running.  I was keen to wander through the dealer assuming they’d have everything on show.

another tip is to book a factory tour well ahead.  We tried booking a few weeks in advance but they were booked out so we missed out.  Lots of places you can look in through windows facing the street but it’s not the same!

now at Spa, charming little town with an OK race track.....track day this Saturday.  Watch this space.

https://instagram.com/p/Ba9lwhSBz7R/

[Lucky Phil]

On the factory tour topic I wrote to them the other day and they will not book tours yet for next year as they have not set their build schedule for 2018.  They asked me to contact them in late December or early January so as I can set the dates in line with my museum tour.

@DJM I was not planning a Mercedes tour.  Do you recommend this?  Can Porsche museum and factory tour (priority) and Mercedes tours (not on my to do list) all be done in one day?  I think we are only in Stuttgart for one day to do the Porsche bit but can change itinerary if there is more to do in Stuttgart.

[DJM]

Car and Spa locked and loaded

https://instagram.com/p/Ba_3WflB5bv/

@DJM I was not planning a Mercedes tour.  Do you recommend this?  Can Porsche museum and factory tour (priority) and Mercedes tours (not on my to do list) all be done in one day?  I think we are only in Stuttgart for one day to do the Porsche bit but can change itinerary if there is more to do in Stuttgart.

Mercedes Museum is quite different - very much the history of the automobile told through Mercedes models.  Spectacular building and very clever layout, you start with a lift ride to the top and wind down through various levels and eras, lots of emphasis on race cars with some cool stuff on display.  AMG section was cool.

https://instagram.com/p/Ba_3lRQhm-b/

I reckon it’s definitely worth a visit.  It’s about 10 minute drive from Porsche.  

Porache is more about ooh, ahh, wow.  Another spectacular building.  We did both museums in half a day but a lot at Porsche we’d seen before.  You could spend a few hours at each if you digest all the material on offer.  Haven’t done Porsche factory tour so I don’t know how long that takes but I would think you’d knock them all off in a day if you start at 9 and work to a schedule.  Porsche dealer opens at 8 if you’re keen on an earlier start.   We stayed at Mercure Zuffenhausen which is a short walk to Porsche.  Only 3 star, a bit tired and only 70 Euro but handy.  Bit of an industrial area so not a lot around in terms of dining options.

[Mike-S]

@DJM I’ll be interested to see what you think of Spa, it’s an awesome circuit that I’ve done a few track days at (but not for 7-8 years). Lots of concentration followed by the need for a good book to read as you thunder along the Kemmel straight waiting to hit the brakes. 

My record highest fuel consumption was at Spa, standard road going Impreza Turbo, averaged 4mpg. 2 tanks of fuel and 8 jerry cans that day ?

Oh and Eau Rouge, it’s steeper than it looks ??

[TwoHeadsTas]

looks like planets will align and we might do GT3 at Spa on Saturday too ?

no worries, epic day yesterday.  Brekkie at Zuffenhausen as I type waiting for museum and dealership to open.  Here’s how it looked early this morning

https://instagram.com/p/Ba51fTUhnGH/

a few sneaky 991.2 GT3s in the factory yard including a baby blue one

https://instagram.com/p/Ba51mVwBjGe/

 

 

So you got to do the Factory Tour?   I tried to book 3 months out, and then kept pestering every couple of days in last month, to no avail 

I guess I could say the Museum was a consolation prize   Almost 6 weeks to the day since we were there....

On the factory tour topic I wrote to them the other day and they will not book tours yet for next year as they have not set their build schedule for 2018.  They asked me to contact them in late December or early January so as I can set the dates in line with my museum tour.

@DJM I was not planning a Mercedes tour.  Do you recommend this?  Can Porsche museum and factory tour (priority) and Mercedes tours (not on my to do list) all be done in one day?  I think we are only in Stuttgart for one day to do the Porsche bit but can change itinerary if there is more to do in Stuttgart.

We didn't do Merc one either.  I think the 2 museums are a fair way apart, but on German public transport it probably doesn't take too long to travel between.  It has been said that the Merc one is better than the Porsche one, but I can't comment on that.  We were only in Stuttgart for the day too.

Remember to take your P club membership card for 50% discount on entry and I think it was 10% int he gift shop.  I had been told that the museum was free and 15% discount, but perhaps they've changed their discount structures...

[DJM]

So you got to do the Factory Tour?   

no, tried to book a few weeks out, nothing available.  Because we stayed nearby for 2 nights, I was up early wandering around the various streets between all the Porsche buildings and looking in street facing Windows and gates to see what I could see.

I think the 2 museums are a fair way apart, but on German public transport it probably doesn't take too long to travel between.  It has been said that the Merc one is better than the Porsche one, but I can't comment on that.  We were only in Stuttgart for the day too.

Merc is across town but only 10 minutes by car.  Stuttgart seems to be undergoing a massive urban renewal so lots of roadworks everywhere.  We probably had an easy run being public holidays when we were there.  Perhaps on a normal business day it might take longer.  But it's pretty straight forward.

as to which is "better", I guess it depends what you are looking for.  I imagine to a lay person Mercedes is much more informative and interesting.  A lot of effort has gone into telling the automobile story including referencing world events at particulars points in time etc.  For a Porsche enthusiast, the Porsche museum no doubt is a must see with lots of rare cars on show including very early 356 & 911, an early RS, a few GT models, 918 and some wicked race cars.  Hard to say which is better as they fulfil very different purposes and target different markets,  I would imagine any PFAer would have Porsche as a priority and Meecedes as a nice to do if time permits.

@DJM I’ll be interested to see what you think of Spa, it’s an awesome circuit that I’ve done a few track days at (but not for 7-8 years). Lots of concentration followed by the need for a good book to read as you thunder along the Kemmel straight waiting to hit the brakes. 

My record highest fuel consumption was at Spa, standard road going Impreza Turbo, averaged 4mpg. 2 tanks of fuel and 8 jerry cans that day ?

Oh and Eau Rouge, it’s steeper than it looks ??

we've been to the track the last 2 days and stood at the base of Eau rouge and over the other side at the go kart track.  Eau rouge looks crazy steep.  Only Audi drive experience going on (R8 V10s in procession behind an instructor) not pushing hard but even so you see the cars getting chucked left, panicked braking part way up etc.  pretty daunting looking stretch of road.  The change of elevation is quite surprising around the track.

RSR has a condition on GT3 hire that you have to have an instructor for the whole time.  And we will do an hour long track walk before we start which should be interesting. 

Saturday 8am kickoff - 1 more sleep.....

[Mike-S]

You pick up some real speed down toward Eau Rouge, more than you think when you suddenly find yourself sideways on a damp track as you crest the top of it....

[KGB]

Car and Spa locked and loaded

https://instagram.com/p/Ba_3WflB5bv/

Mercedes Museum is quite different - very much the history of the automobile told through Mercedes models.  Spectacular building and very clever layout, you start with a lift ride to the top and wind down through various levels and eras, lots of emphasis on race cars with some cool stuff on display.  AMG section was cool.

https://instagram.com/p/Ba_3lRQhm-b/

I reckon it’s definitely worth a visit.  It’s about 10 minute drive from Porsche.  

Porache is more about ooh, ahh, wow.  Another spectacular building.  We did both museums in half a day but a lot at Porsche we’d seen before.  You could spend a few hours at each if you digest all the material on offer.  Haven’t done Porsche factory tour so I don’t know how long that takes but I would think you’d knock them all off in a day if you start at 9 and work to a schedule.  Porsche dealer opens at 8 if you’re keen on an earlier start.   We stayed at Mercure Zuffenhausen which is a short walk to Porsche.  Only 3 star, a bit tired and only 70 Euro but handy.  Bit of an industrial area so not a lot around in terms of dining options.

Did the Porsche factory tour in April 1;15hr'ish from memory.  Nice little factory with people still actually assembling the cars. 

Benz building is architecturally incredible.

[DJM]

You pick up some real speed down toward Eau Rouge, more than you think when you suddenly find yourself sideways on a damp track as you crest the top of it....

100k Euro excess will keep me focused on avoiding the walls........they already have a 10k swipe of the credit card as a down payment ?  Forecast to be fine and mid teens which helps.  As does a limit of 50 cars (usually they take 90-100 and with open pit lane it can get hectic).

[DJM]

Wow, wow, wow........what an epic experience today.  10 laps in a 991 GT3 around Spa Francorchamps with an instructor encouraging me to press on, “more gas, more gas”, wow, epic track in an epic car.  Don’t let anyone tell you a 991 GT3 is not hardcore.  For a showroom stock car the performance was simply stunning.  I haven’t had the GT4 on track yet - my guess is the GT3 has the legs on it.  Man I was impressed far beyond what I expected.  The braking.....wow!  Probably feels shit around town being PDK but when you get up it it just comes alive.

Left in auto mode, PDK sport and loud exhaust on man that thing hauls arse, up and down changes better than I could manage manually.  I was happy to drive in auto given so much to think about.  

We did a track walk prior with Ron Simons(RSR) and spent 15 minutes looking at Eau Rouge and Radillon, considering the right line and all the things that can go wrong as evidenced by copious skids marks and tyre wall hits.  I managed to get it wrong on one lap and got spat out left on the way up the hill, eyeballs clocking up Euro like a poker machine but I opened the steering and drove across the kerbs and out of it, phew!

we also stopped and chatted at Double Gauche, a full 500m sweeping left which Ron says F1 enter flat and hold flat at 300.......having now driven it, all I can say is holy shit how is that possible.  I was well under 200 around there and felt well loaded up.

No question that is the best corner on the best track in the world.  The whole track is so fast and technically challenging.  It’s so rewarding when you string a few corners together.  Wow wow wow.  I encourage anyone with a track bent to get there at least once in your life.  Wow.

some cool cars too including multiple GT3 including 991.2 and RS, GT4, 2 x track GT4 Clubsport, multiple Cup cars, Viper ACR, several McLarens, Audi Giulia Q.V., 2 x Ferrari 488 GT3 race cars.

Wow......

We have in car footage on USB which I will post up once I return Home if it looks any good.  Keen to see my miscue through Eau Rouge again as well as hard braking then lift off oversteer into the hard right at the end of Kemmel straight.  

Gushing over........but wow ????

https://instagram.com/p/BbEiRteh9Xe/

[Mike-S]

So, what you’re trying to say is, you enjoyed it? 

It’s an awesome circuit, no question ?

[DJM]

Yep....wow ?

[YellowDieselGolf]

Ohh!  I'm hoping to see the GP at Spa and then do some laps at the Nurburgring in Aug/Sep next year.  

Thanks to everyone for their tips.  Keep em coming!

 

Very jealous right now DJM

[DJM]

Ohh!  I'm hoping to see the GP at Spa and then do some laps at the Nurburgring in Aug/Sep next year.  

Thanks to everyone for their tips.  Keep em coming!

 

Very jealous right now DJM

Nurburgring is obviously epic and legendary but I have to say I enjoyed Spa much more as a driving experience.  

I reckon F1 at Spa would be amazing to watch live,

 

[WGA]

Living in Belgium, I have been to Spa many times both to drive the track and to attend the F1 GP. It’s an awesome track and nothing prepares you for your first time up Eau Rouge.

My most recent visit was to attend the Porsche Masters Driving course with a bunch of other PCars fanatics. Took my GT3.1. It’s a bucket list track so if you ever get the chance to go...just do it.