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LeeM

Pre purchase inspections. Yes or no?

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Yes.  Can be the best $500 you'll ever spend.

For example, I came close to buying a manual 997S . . . if not for the computer check during the PPI I would never have discovered that the car had a history of repeated and serious over-revving

For example, when I was buying my 1971 911S I didn't have the experience with early cars to spot that the 901 gearbox sound was slightly off  . . . the PPI mechanic did and I ended up negotiating to share the cost of a gearbox rebuild with the vendor

 

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As a buyer:

Yes, although would be prepared to make an exception depending on the car/vendor.

In the past a PPI has always covered its own cost for me because it picked up things I hadn't factored in and which the vendor was prepared to make an adjustment on price.

As a seller:

I'd always allow one unless demand was hot, but wouldn't let just anyone do it and may even want to be present while it was done

 

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1 hour ago, KGB said:

Buying or selling?

 Whatever, It's an open topic ?

 I'd also add that I started this to take the heat off the Whats for sale thread, so bang away with whatever you want to discuss about PPI's ?

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i've never done a PPI, and it's never bitten me on the backside!

 

......yet, i have a feeling my luck will run out next time

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It depends largely on the age of the car, the condition it presents in and the $$ involved (purchase price) - you are not really going to do one for a $5k clanger or a 2 month old car....

I would always inspect what ever car I was buying (and if that meant I would miss out, so be it.... ), I let someone else do it once (even paid them!) and if I had of inspected it I would never of bought it..... I made the best of what I got and turned out to be a great car, but still.....

For me I would say most likely not.

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Gut feeling..  If you sort of know what your looking for and it feels right, go with it.  A good drive can often tell you how it is, and if you've driven a few you should know how they feel.  Determine the service history and make the call, and as mentioned in the other thread, part of your buying budget should include some unforeseen..  Don't smash the piggy bank and spend it all on a machine, keep a bit up your sleeve for just in case..

I've only bought one Pcar, it felt good, its been great and I didn't entertain a PPI on purchase..  If it felt doggish on the day I would have walked away with nothing lost other than another cab fare back to the airport.  Based on that feeling I simply got in it and drove it back to Brisbane.  Haven't looked back.

I think similar with the Red 85 in Sydney - totally agree that if the books read right and it pulled well and tight, no further investigation needed, pay the man the money and drive away happy..

 

I actaully think that a PPI can be a bit of a get out of jail free card with some doubters, like a cooling off period almost.

 

PS..  Don't test drive in the wet because you'll never know how it really feels..  ;)

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I did a PPI on a 997 GT3 because like most it'd done its fair share of track time. Uncovered: zero.

I think a PPI on an old car 30yrs+ is a waste of time though unless you need it for a negotiating tactic. Buy the seller, not the car. 31 years of ownership (from other thread), reasonable price. Good service history. PPI or no it can easily let go at any moment due to age, factor that in your negotiations. You're rolling the dice with a 30 year old car either way.

Usual provisos for cars that have been sitting for months of course.

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I think there are times when a PPI is a good idea and others when it really isn't needed ....

I went to look at a 944 with another member on here and the way the car looked and drove, the receipts that were produced, and more importantly the attitude and responses of the seller left us feeling confident that it really didn't need a PPI ....

We both felt more than comfortable enough to just buy it ... sure, he has since had a few things replaced, but we have been on plenty of SMT's together and it performs flawlessly ...

A good way to suss out a potential problem is to ask the seller .... "I need to drive it to Sydney / Melbourne etc .... would you feel comfortable driving it there?" .... their response or hesitation will speak volumes.

I have rang my mechanic on a couple of occasions and booked in an API  ... the first time I did it he asked " what the bloody hell is an API?"

He only asked me the first time ... the second and third times he just laughed ...

API .... After Purchase Inspection  :LOL:

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I have purchased 3 cars without ppi's, i have had no problems with any of the cars. Usual maintenance items on each car and each of the owners were upfront with anything that was needed in the next 6-12mths. Did all the homework and eyes wide open except for one which i made a decision on in a week and the car was off market, actually 2 cars off market, but that is another story. If i had a bad vibe from the owner i would walk away, i have my own rule of thumb, if i open the bonnet and it looks like a shitter, it probably is, so again, walk away. Sounds wierd i know but i ask lots of questions that the owner should know and if they pass my little test i buy their car;)

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On the basis of purchasing from a recognised and reputable independent specialist Porsche workshop / sales business, I did not get PPIs on either our 987 or 996.2.  The 987 perhaps because it was our first Porsche and I was perhaps a little naive, the 996 not done on a reputational and relationship basis.  The only work we had to do to the 987 in the following 12 mths (tyre and ignition pack replacement x 1) couldn't in any way be attributed to condition at purchase.  The 996 had a small issue which my mechanic negotiated with the seller workshop to my satisfaction, and appears to have been fully resolved.

Again, both newer cars.  Another 996 I was looking at I had booked in for a PPI until I found out it was a RWOV and canned the deal.  That was through another dealer who I didn't get the warm and fuzzies about.  

If I was looking at a car model about which I had limited knowledge, and didn;t have someone with that knowledge helping me, I'd probably still be inclined to get a PPI in some form done, even if just to improve my knowledge and make sure my eyes were wide open.

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I had a PPI done on an interstate purchase, 944S2, one of Sydney’s most respected independents and it was a waste of money for everything other than the compression test. Some very basic issues identified prior to the PPI being booked but very poorly investigated. 

Unfortunately I think the value of my business and the time spent on the inspection was downgraded by the workshop given I was Interstate, it was a water cooled car and I wasn’t a returning customer -_-.

I purchased the car based on confidence I received from the PPI and discussions with the workshop only to find out I needed to spend thousands to bring it up to an acceptable level to pass a roadworthy once I had it back in Melb.

I think the compression / leak down check is worthwhile, drive it for a good distance if you can, take the car to a mechanic you can trust and be there whilst you pour over the car together.

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A car either has good bones or bad bones. But on every carcass there are cheap cuts of meat and expensive ones. With exotics and classics, make sure you can afford eye fillet from time to time, otherwise stick to burgers.

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As a prospective seller of an older 911 (pre computer) NO.

By all means bring your knowledgeable /expert mates when you come for inspection, but my car doesnt leave my sight. Dont want the apprentice at the workshop touching up my baby.

Remember this????

Image result for Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

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8 minutes ago, tazzieman said:

A car either has good bones or bad bones. But on every carcass there are cheap cuts of meat and expensive ones. With exotics and classics, make sure you can afford eye fillet from time to time, otherwise stick to burgers.

I'm glad there are no vegetarians seeing this .... :ph34r:

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13 minutes ago, KGB said:

My PPI experiences include asking Rod Raymer; “good car?” Response; “yes”. That’s the PPI done then.   

Exactly my experience as well when buying my 993, however when selling the same  better car, which the mechanic doing the PPI said was probably the best one he had seen,but still detailed a list of approx $15,000 to turn a 20 year great car into a 20 year old new car the mechanically inept prospective buyer shit bricks. 

Personally I think PPI’s should be more of an educated look over, rather than a thousand point in depth analysis highlighting the bleeding obvious by someone trying to justify their expensive report.

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1 hour ago, KGB said:

My PPI experiences include asking Rod Raymer; “good car?” Response; “yes”. That’s the PPI done then.   

Vale Rob - he sure will be missed

48 minutes ago, StevepGT3 said:

 the mechanic doing the PPI said was probably the best one he had seen,but still detailed a list of approx $15,000 to turn a 20 year great car into a 20 year old new car the mechanically inept prospective buyer shit bricks. 

right - is it a pre-purchase inspection or a pre-restoration inspection

people buying 30 year old performance cars and expecting them to be new are living in a fools paradise; the issue has been compounded because an Porsche that was say $50k 8 years ago is now $120k

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Mostly no PPI.. but a good ring around to repairers and network. Take a drive is my policy or buy hard enough with a buffer to do repairs.

A little personal experience with my own car .. You know the saying you cars in perfect.. or you think so ..8 years ago on leaving sydney , my perfect TT regularly service low Kms ... Told dealer essentially PPI and fix the lot  $8k later. Last year 20th birthday same TT , same treatments $12.5k  , 

So for me expect some work and get real about what your buying is the outlook... the A/C cars are all 20+ now !!  I seem make a reference to when I owned them thinking Im still the same age .. the 20 year old cars will actually be hitting 30-40 yrs , the classics I own 50+ shit thats a long time, even if the cars are garage queens.

A more modern story , my GT3 , 20,000kms , 8 services and warranty work, always on warranty, PPI  Chellingworth.   What a waste of money.. told me its all fine , know the car well and now cant tell me if many things have been done in its history, hence im now covering everything in my latest round of maintenance work , faulty front strut..200kms after they did PPI and no ownership and backing of their inspection, various other stuff. I wished I had saved my $600.

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10 hours ago, Dreamr said:

I'm glad there are no vegetarians seeing this .... :ph34r:

Does unwitting consumption of fruit fly and cabbage larvae still grant you a pass to vegetarian nirvana?

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PPI one thing. Alleged provenance another. I'm reading the superb Forger's Tale book and with cars I'd be wary of anything owned by an elderly person (for various reasons , nothing to do with the Sabbath) or belonging to some celebrity (for many reasons) or even sitting in a collection for years. 

The expression you can't polish a turd (except on Mythbusters) was never truer than in the used car business.But now that patina adds value , beware fake wear & tear!

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"Forger's Tale" Sounds like a great read gotta get it -- "Working out of a shed in his parents' garden, Greenhalgh had successfully fooled some of the world's greatest museums." Hahhahaa love the irony of that,, all done sitting on a milk crate with his ponytail surrounded by pizza boxes and his NIntendo! 

"From Leonardo drawings to L.S. Lowry paintings, from busts of American presidents to Anglo-Saxon brooches, from cutting-edge Modernism to the ancient art of the Stone Age, Greenhalgh could--and did--copy it all". Sounds like a modern master to me!

PPI's? Buyer - If it's selling from a Pcar specialist, don't bother (even though I've been misled once) . Inexperienced with Pcars or non mechanically minded, and for possible negotiating points, get one.

Seller - If it's a very good car get one from your usual Pcar independents prior to marketing and that's it, no more PPIs. If an average car that needs many things that you wont fix put it to auction. If it's a piece of crap sell it cheap and unload it to the first willing adventurer and let him deal with it

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