997 GT3 Market Watch

[NBTBRV8]

Here is the manual, check out the service requirements on page 2.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=00833945847716612037

[SS 3]

Here is an article from Road & Track about the new 991.2 GT3

PDK Doesn't Ruin the 911 GT3

Yes, it offers a manual now. But your level of involvement doesn't depend on the gearbox, it depends on how you use the car.

What I took from a section of the article (see below) was exactly why I purchased my 997.2 GT3CS as opposed to the 991.1 GT3 at the time.

Rear-wheel steering is one of the more unexpected keys to the GT3. The 991-generation 911 is a big car, and in some situations–like at slow speed in the rain–the GT3 feels every inch of its size. Rear-wheel steering can virtually extend or shrink the wheelbase, providing greater stability at high speeds and more agility at low speeds. This allows the GT3 to close around you and feel like a car that's half its size. The best thing would be for the car to just be smaller from the factory, but that doesn't seem to be happening, and we, unfortunately, don't live in a world where Willy Wonka could shrink it for you.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/road-tests/a20883830/pdk-doesnt-ruin-the-911-gt3/?src=nl&mag=rdt&list=nl_rdt_news&date=060718

I love all GT3's don't get me wrong and the current one is no doubt and absolute treat to drive, however being the last of the small body architecture with the last of that hero engine in it's 3.8 format the 997 makes for a very special GT3. Even though to be honest its still "newish" to most people the more I drive/feel the car, the more I listen to others comment, the more I'm convinced that as time goes by this special GT3 will be marked as that, in Porsche's history. 

The challenge for me will be to hang onto my car and enjoy it for what it is and what it will become over the coming years..... (I really should have bought and kept that stunning midnight blue 993RS Touring back in 1998 ???)

 

[Jason A]

The older GT3’s with Megzler + manual will be the pick. The older they are, the slower they will be - the more they will make you work. We are all lusting after analogue cars, who wants a car to go fast and not challenge you. Part of the fun is knowing you could get bitten and respecting that. My 2 cents worth

[Redracn]

^ So a 991 GT3 with TC and ESC off (off means off in a GT3) won’t bite you?

i am also searching for the definition of an analog car.

[1q2w3e4r]

No won't bite.

Analog - any of the 993/6/7 GT cars without all the aids, CGT

[Jason A]

No buttons = analogue. The less buttons, the closer you are. 

[Redracn]

1 hour ago, 1q2w3e4r said:

No won't bite.

Analog - any of the 993/6/7 GT cars without all the aids, CGT

Now let me see a 997.2 GT3 has ESC, TC, ABS, Dynamic Engine Mounts etc.

Each generation has a bit more that can be controlled by a computer so how can a line be drawn as the next gen and the one after will have even more that can be computer controlled. In the end with the off button (if you have one) pressed and no closed loop systems to help is there really a difference when blazing up you favorite bit of road where your mistake is your problem and there is nothing to fix it for you.  

Edit. ABS is the exception as it is always there but not all ABS are equal. Prioritize braking or steering.

[GRK930]

Interesting discussion. I’ve got the 997.1 version. Fun car to drive. Very happy with it. Collectible? Yeah. One for the purists? Yeah. Personally though, you can’t compare it to a 991. Evolution gentlemen. Whether you want to agree or not, the latest gt3’s are the best. Trouble is, you need to be a good steerer to get the most out of them. I’m just a hack, so the 997.1 is plenty car for me.

[SS 3]

49 minutes ago, GRK930 said:

Interesting discussion. I’ve got the 997.1 version. Fun car to drive. Very happy with it. Collectible? Yeah. One for the purists? Yeah. Personally though, you can’t compare it to a 991. Evolution gentlemen. Whether you want to agree or not, the latest gt3’s are the best. Trouble is, you need to be a good steerer to get the most out of them. I’m just a hack, so the 997.1 is plenty car for me.

It is a great discussion, I don t think for one moment we are talking about what is the better car or better performing car I think we are referring to the feel which is what we translate  into "what is a good car a desirable car"  this desirability then grows overtime. The 997 feels different, smaller more agile arguably more feel thru the wheel last of small body architecture last of the bullet proof Mezger engine. The 997 is a rewarding car to drive at all speeds, a real drivers car, the 991 will be much better at the limit on a track no question, however having experienced a number of drives in the 991 it can feel strangely numbing in most other driving conditions. Maybe someone that has all or a few of the above models can chime in with an opinion.

[Redracn]

Interesting on the feel as if it is agreed that older cars have more feel then that could translate to cars with more feel being designed by people with a poorer understanding of vehicle dynamics and shocks absorbers (although they were experts at the time). Would this mean the more unpredictable or weird  the handling the more feel  a car has?

 

[1q2w3e4r]

7 hours ago, Scott SS964 said:

It is a great discussion, I don t think for one moment we are talking about what is the better car or better performing car I think we are referring to the feel which is what we translate  into "what is a good car a desirable car"  this desirability then grows overtime. The 997 feels different, smaller more agile arguably more feel thru the wheel last of small body architecture last of the bullet proof Mezger engine. The 997 is a rewarding car to drive at all speeds, a real drivers car, the 991 will be much better at the limit on a track no question, however having experienced a number of drives in the 991 it can feel strangely numbing in most other driving conditions. Maybe someone that has all or a few of the above models can chime in with an opinion.

That's it I reckon.  

Agree on the comment re the 991, I think a lot is to do with the electric steering and rear wheel steer.

[symsy]

Im gonna look back in 10 years and see who still has their 997… then I will be impressed ..Im not sure yet what will happen with mine ..already feels a keeper. I think the cars to watch are the ones that keep drawing you back to drive them, not always the fastest…  

I agree though and have said elsewhere, the intimacy of the cabin of 997 vs 991 is a big thing with regard to the drive experience.  Im glad I have the aids on my 997.1 car , as soon as its raining and my attitude starts to get challenged by the weather it kinda shows me what it will be like when I push this car ten tenths and what no aids may feel like , I think I drive mostly at 7's and 8's.

A slight deviation but at year 22 with the 993 TT, I still love to push this car across the hills, it feels a little heavy but sucks the road up still at an alarming pace, for me nearly as quick as the 997.1 on the road ( Well up to speeds heading into the naughty zone) Same journeys and coffee run, totally different experiences. I think its about the pronounced drive and if they keep drawing you back rather than tech specs.

I think the other thing thats important is the capacity to manage costs, the turbo is bullet proof and has had no glitches, hopefully the 997 will be the same , although it already pisses me off with flat batteries, silly bonnet releases , rouge faults that arent real, god you gotta hate computers.  All caused by a battery change.. for me thats bullshit.

I am yet to drive a 997.2 so not sure i need to upgrade or take the jump. Its also funny how people say certain things are a necessity like lift kits.. I aint got one , could possibly need one at some point if I was multi storey car parking or something but live on rough roads and have driven 10,000kms this year and met only one mountainering challenge that I have tirned awya from in it thus far.

Although manageable I am somewhat disheartened for example by the hub issues reaised a few pages back and the general challenge the home user has with the centre locks . When do these tech goodies really add value beyond cosmetics..

PS I will have a 991 is the garage one day , but probably a touring .2 once they get smashed in depreciation or even a NA 991 S or Targa and yes probably a PDK  

In the mean time there is a glut of cars for sale , it hurting prices  and one can only hope there is a crash in RS prices and i will upgrade to either a .1 or a .2 997 cos they just look mean.

 

 

 

[edgy]

It’s a funny argument when we talk about “the last analog”. 

I often see the 997 referenced as “the one with the nannies” 

but what does it have over the 996? 

Traction Comtrol/ESC 

PASM 

turn off the traction control and you’re differentiator is the PASM, which in my experience is counter productive to “helping the car” go faster on the track, (out of the box anyway). Put simply, what makes the 997 a better road car than the 996 makes it not as good on the track, I believe the PASM is better in the generation 2 car as it has 3 axis input from the accelerometer. 

I guess the bottom line is that it’s “assumed” that it’s easier to get a faster lap time from a 997 because of its “electronics” over the 996. 

In my experience this is just not true. 

A better road car because of it? Sure 

[SS 3]

7 hours ago, symsy said:

PS I will have a 991 is the garage one day , but probably a touring .2 once they get smashed in depreciation or even a NA 991 S or Targa and yes probably a PDK  

In the mean time there is a glut of cars for sale , it hurting prices  and one can only hope there is a crash in RS prices and i will upgrade to either a .1 or a .2 997 cos they just look mean.

991.2 Touring appeals to me as well

14 hours ago, Redracn said:

Interesting on the feel as if it is agreed that older cars have more feel then that could translate to cars with more feel being designed by people with a poorer understanding of vehicle dynamics and shocks absorbers (although they were experts at the time). Would this mean the more unpredictable or weird  the handling the more feel  a car has?

 

I think what you are saying and what we are all feeling is that the vast majority of car manufactures are not making a true feel sports car anymore there are layers between what is true feel and todays feel. These layers are to do with design progression, suspension technology and of course general technology in the form of sensors  which are shooting off loads of information  that we then develop another layer of interference for, all in pursuit of progression. Of course a lot of this progression is driven by international emission standards which there will be no end .... so forget about buying new true feel cars that we fantasise about the ones that emit gorgeous sounds amazing wheel feel their days are dead. 

I think what we are seeing is that driving enthusiast are saying we want more feel we want more natural visceral stuff and the only way they can find it is the good old stuff and hell they are even paying a fortune to build their own cars or rebuild.

[StevepGT3]

The only nanny I have met so far in  nearly 20 k is the ABS nanny, happy to have her on board. I never push in the wet, but go pretty hard in the dry and no nanny interference even with the back end out what felt like 3 foot a few times. I have never bothered to turn them off as I can’t positively say they are even working. As I have no fault lights on the dash, and my scanner says they are ok I am quite happy they are unobtrusively keeping an eye on procedings just in case things turn to shit one day.

[symsy]

1 hour ago, StevepGT3 said:

The only nanny I have met so far in  nearly 20 k is the ABS nanny, happy to have her on board. I never push in the wet, but go pretty hard in the dry and no nanny interference even with the back end out what felt like 3 foot a few times. I have never bothered to turn them off as I can’t positively say they are even working. As I have no fault lights on the dash, and my scanner says they are ok I am quite happy they are unobtrusively keeping an eye on procedings just in case things turn to shit one day.

Yup agree Steve I havent felt mine kick in either ..  I only felt the roundabout come up real quick in the rain , the aqua plane and the sudden impulse if I dont get off the brakes now and steer im gonna hit that and its gonna be expensive and a little bit more than the front lip.   

Must be the Cups 2's and the Troferos in the rain.. not that I get my boot in like i do in the TT with teh 4WD    Lesson in respect start in the GT3 .. and the pace is much quicker ..is my early learning.

[dragon02]

#metoo Symsy!!! 

Rainy day, wet road, just got into the car, very cold tyres, roll to a red light about to turn into a 90 degree left hander....proceeded to enter and gave it a bit of gas (too early), as the rear end swung around, tried to correct it and over correction swung the tail back the other way!!!  Tail swung like a pendulum a couple more times, foot off brake and lightly on accelerator pedal till I got the beast back in control, definitely heart-in-mouth moment. Realised those Michelin Pilot Sports may not like the wet too much!! Respect your GT3 and never get complacent ?

[StevepGT3]

The cup 2’s are a lot better than the cup1’s in the wet, but I consider them a tyre to get you home if it rains while you are out,rather than an all weather proposition. I will be trying the PS4s next round.tried to get them or supersports the last two sets, but the timing  for availability was out both times.

[GRK930]

I just put on a set of PS2’s. Very happy. Haven’t been too bad in the wet, admittedly though, I didn’t give it much stick when wet.

[GRK930]

I noticed the white VIV car in Qld has disappeared off Carsales. Wonder if it sold?

[356993???]

What's the pecking order of the GT3s currently on the market?

The grey/silver series 2 caught my eye but seems high $ relative to much lower km cars on the market and interior seems 'used'. 

What are these cars actually changing hands for at the moment?

[Ntg]

The 2007 Touring in silver with ceramics and Genuine Rs wing, spare wheels etc- exceptional condition  that i listed on here last year sold for $189k two weeks ago, no track whore either

It was stunning and that's all they are worth in my opinion,

part time track car with hard work??? -quite a bit  less in the real world

lots of  dreamers in the market

 

[SS 3]

4 hours ago, Ntg said:

The 2007 Touring in silver with ceramics and Genuine Rs wing, spare wheels etc- exceptional condition  that i listed on here last year sold for $189k two weeks ago, no track whore either

It was stunning and that's all they are worth in my opinion,

part time track car with hard work??? -quite a bit  less in the real world

lots of  dreamers in the market

 

Interesting opinion was this your car ? 997.1 Touring with how many kms ?

 

There is lots of good information as to values on this thread and it depends on wether you are an owner or a seller as to your bias.

The one thing that I will say that is well documented is that 997 GT3's are not that common the .2's less so. The time in and around the GFC saw sales in low volumes around the world at this time. from Memory

World wide production

2200 GT3 (CS to touring i dont know)

1650 GT3 RS

If you combine this with last of the small body etc etc they will always be a desirable item. As time goes by this will reveal itself further. 

Be sure to buy the best you can at any given time - Pay for something that really appeals  something that has the options/spec that you like while its possible to do so, you will be less inclined to want to sell it again anytime soon. The 997 GT3's tick all the boxes, for me the the .2 ticks more.

 

[edgy]

7 hours ago, Ntg said:

The 2007 Touring in silver with ceramics and Genuine Rs wing, spare wheels etc- exceptional condition  that i listed on here last year sold for $189k two weeks ago, no track whore either

It was stunning and that's all they are worth in my opinion,

part time track car with hard work??? -quite a bit  less in the real world

lots of  dreamers in the market

 

I recall asking you about the RS wing on that car. It looked like a nice example. 

So that kinda reinforces my thoughts that the 7.1 pricing barometer is at $180k +/- $20k for a private sale. 

Of course there is always exceptions. 

SO Cup cars look like the better deal right now. ? 

[Troubleshooter]

Well there ya go, this one seems rather realistic in price .. even comes with a guarantee that it'll increase in value with age. Wonder what his remittance to the buyer will be if it hasn't increased in value in a year or 2 or 5 or 10?

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-2008/SSE-AD-4670370/?Cr=0