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Getting my 1983 911 cab back on the road


AdRock
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52 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

Supertec is a bit cheaper. 650 for the kit of studs. 

Is that price from the US? I think I saw that price on Pelican.

Doing some reading last night, quite a few people suggested that getting the ARP or Supertec studs might be a bit of overkill?
My car will never be a race car or modified for more horsepower as long as I own it - so some new steel Porsche / OEM studs could very well be suitable. I haven't seen any evidence on the forums yet where that's not the case. They seem to be a fair bit cheaper too.

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48 minutes ago, AdRock said:

Is that price from the US? I think I saw that price on Pelican.

Doing some reading last night, quite a few people suggested that getting the ARP or Supertec studs might be a bit of overkill?
My car will never be a race car or modified for more horsepower as long as I own it - so some new steel Porsche / OEM studs could very well be suitable. I haven't seen any evidence on the forums yet where that's not the case. They seem to be a fair bit cheaper too.

Yep, on pelican its even better - 640usd for the lot which is 24 studs, loctite etc https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/SPTCHSK1.htm?pn=SPTC-HSK-1&SVSVSI=798

993 head studs a bit cheaper - 654usd for 24 studs http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/part/eng-993-101-170-53/

and ARP for some sweeter price - ta-dam - 549usd https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/arp-204-4206/overview/make/porsche

the problem with the studs they are tend to brake even with just some street driving, vibrations + rusting (moisture) = broken studs. at least that is what I`ve found quickly glanced on the internets

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thanks @Cheshire Cat for looking at those! The ARP set looks like a good price at summit racing.
Shame about the killer postage and conversion rate.

I'll check out what our local friends have on offer and at what price. Might work out a similar price to just go local...
Lots to think about!

 

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1 minute ago, AdRock said:

thanks @Cheshire Cat for looking at those! The ARP set looks like a good price at summit racing.
Shame about the killer postage and conversion rate.

I'll check out what our local friends have on offer and at what price. Might work out a similar price to just go local...
Lots to think about!

 

much welcome. I`m pretty sure I`ll get the same dilemma quite soon :))

share your experience with us pls when you`ll get numbers. my experience says that us prices with shipping etc still beat local ones :)

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As much as this sucks that I have to do this and I dont even get to start up my engine before dropping it out...
I'm kind of excited about getting acquainted with my new engine.  They are a bit more complex than the VW's that I'm used to, so I have a bit of a learning curve. But that's a good thing, right? It means that if the car ever poops itself when I'm out driving my girlfriend from winery to gin distillery in the yarra valley, I will have a better idea of what's going on and where to look.  Plus, it means that I can start off known that I've checked out most of the engine and hopefully it will be reliable once it's up and running!

(I put my positive hat on this morning).  :)

 

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2 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

Yep, on pelican its even better - 640usd for the lot which is 24 studs, loctite etc https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/SPTCHSK1.htm?pn=SPTC-HSK-1&SVSVSI=798

993 head studs a bit cheaper - 654usd for 24 studs http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/part/eng-993-101-170-53/

and ARP for some sweeter price - ta-dam - 549usd https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/arp-204-4206/overview/make/porsche

the problem with the studs they are tend to brake even with just some street driving, vibrations + rusting (moisture) = broken studs. at least that is what I`ve found quickly glanced on the internets

After much navel gazing and then advice from someone who has rebuilt a couple hundred Mezgers here, I'm using OEM steels for all my studs.  $348.36 USD shipped from Design911. 

If I wasn't using steels I would have gone the whole hog with fully threaded 993 Dilvars but at $1,128USD plus shipping I was a little circumspect.  I would have grabbed them at $654!

Supertec are also well regarded by the other school of thought due to the fine pitch thread making torqueing the head a doddle

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On 5/29/2018 at 12:38 PM, P-Kay said:

Specific yoke only needed if you're going to split the case. If you plan on only top-end, then I see no reason why the standard one will not do.

 

 

Despite most things suggesting that a specific Porsche yoke isn't required... I'm kind of leaning towards buying one... just for the peace of mind.

I looked at them on The Samba.  They are only $102 USD, but after converting to AUD and including shipping they end up being about $300.  I was wondering if anybody knows of anywhere that sells these in Australia? Any of the parts stores, etc? I've had a bit of a google around but nothing in Australia comes up at all.

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  • 1 month later...

So, I manged to get the engine out... took longer than expected... mainly due to rusty bolts and also a bit of paranoia on my part.  But got there in the end.

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Looks like the triangle of death oil leaks are running rampant on this engine.  Have added all new gaskets and seals to my shopping list.

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Pulled out all of my spark plugs in order to do a leak down test. They all look nice and oily.  Hence the reason for the leakdown test. Also when I saw the engine run for all of 10 seconds, it blew more smoke than Cypress Hill. 

 

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If I did the leakdown test correctly (my first time, after learning how to do so at the Academy of You Tube) all 6 cylinders checked out perfectly!

Good News!

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Looks like either the rear tin or muffler wasn't mounted correctly and was rubbing on each other.  It took off the paint and then of course rusted through! I've had a look at replacement / second hand versions and it looks like i'll be attempting to weld a patch into this.

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My expensive engine yoke arrived. Turns out it wasn't expensive enough as it doesn't fit my engine properly. Well, it fits the engine, but because I have the 1983 Japan SC model which apparently utilised the 930 case and 930 exhaust components including exhaust cross over - it wont fit without removing the cross over pipe. Turns out once you undo the cross over pipe's rusty nuts and bolts and cut the ones off that wont budge - you still can't remove it. You actually also need to loosen up the heat exhanger to give the cross over pipe some wiggle room to come out.

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So, needless to say, it ended up becoming a multiple day project just to get it onto the stand.  I firstly purchased the 2 meter slings, which were way too long to be useful. So, the next day I went back to bunnings and picked up the 1m / 3 tonne slings and it did a much better job.  I still needed to tilt the stand and lift the flywheel end of the engine myself to get it mounted. but got there in the end.   With these yokes from VW Alley on the The Samba, you actually need to drill your holes yourself to lock it onto the stand - so that took another hour or so.  I'm constantly amazed at how little I manage to get done, despite working on the engine for a full day each weekend.

 

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So, remember i mentioned that my engine was smoking a crapload when it was started up... I'm thinking the heat exchanger full of oil might have something to do with it.  With the leakdown test results coming back postive and the previous owner advising they overfilled the oil - it seems that's all the problem was.

What's even more scary is the sealant that has made it's way through the heads, into the heat exchanger.  Who knows where else that red sealant has ended up!

 

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Whoever worked on this engine last must have had shares in Permatex... it's everywhere and i KNOW there is a lot more to be found.
Check out the oil cooler seals

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I managed to find myself some Sea Foam deep creep, which according to some of the youtube videos i watched had better results than WD40.  I turned my engine upside down (covering my garage floor in oil which hadn't drained out of the sump yet!) and soaked my exhaust nuts multiple times in the Deep Creep. It will be soaking for the rest of this week until i go back this weekend and have a go at removing them.  Hopefully no broken exhaust studs! Once the exhaust is off, then I can start removing the fun bits and really seeing what's inside of there.... other than more sealant!!

 

Oh and for anybody that cares, you can follow my instagram posts for my rebuild over at @DiyPorscheGuy

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, MrRPJ said:

Holy fucking dooley that wiring brings back reminders of mine. Get in contact with Kroon and get a new loom. 

 

haha I dont think it's too bad, I think it's just messy.  The guy did a LHD to RHD switch and the wiring clean up was a job he never got to.

The engine rebuild is taking priority at the moment... after that's done, i'll clean up the wiring and see where i'm at then.

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On 8/11/2018 at 6:55 PM, Cheshire Cat said:

How are the studs going? I`ve managed to take them all out without destroying any of them (one bent quite good but was in one peace). Heating on the case works really good.

What did you use to grab them with mate? I'm just at the stage of removing them now. Taking this engine apart is proving a very slow process.  
I'm down to the short block now. Couldn't remove the crank bolt even with an impact wrench, busted the socket! 

 

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Still need to track down a 12 point, 12mm triple square socket too for the flywheel bolts, where did you get yours from? I couldn't find them anywhere... and online they were only available in a set.

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I found the Porsche equivalent of crop circles on my engine case.  but only on the right hand side! I have absolutely no idea why someone would have done this... other than out of boredom! 

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I wasn't planning on splitting the case... but a few things have led me to believe it's probably worth a look. 

Looks like something has gone CRUNCH at some point through the dizzy drive gear. 

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Also dragged a magnet through the oil that I drained out of the case. Found some tiny shavings. 

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Heads were removed, still attached to the cam towers.  All looked in pretty decent condition. 

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Glad that the engine ended up coming out, as there was no way I was ever going to be able to clean up all of this RTV sealant whilst it was still in the car.  

I've already found some pieces of sealant in places where it definitely shouldn't be, so it's going to be good to check the inside of the case to see if there's any more laying around inside there. 

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15 hours ago, AdRock said:

What did you use to grab them with mate? I'm just at the stage of removing them now. Taking this engine apart is proving a very slow process.  
I'm down to the short block now. Couldn't remove the crank bolt even with an impact wrench, busted the socket! 

Still need to track down a 12 point, 12mm triple square socket too for the flywheel bolts, where did you get yours from? I couldn't find them anywhere... and online they were only available in a set.

 

 

 

 

I`ve borrowed some stud removing tool from a friend looks like this 71200.jpg

I can tell you I was quite lucky so far, 11 of them I got out with either minimal or no problems but one of them was a pain. Anyway, if you feel like nothing helps and the stud is bending\twisting and doesn`t want to come out - use a gas torch to heat up the case and start loosing the stud. Works very good and saves time and the case.

As for the socket for the flywheel - got the set, bought it long time ago, hopefully I`ll manage not to destroy it :))

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Ha, I have one of those at home and completely forgot about it! Did you just do it by hand or did you impact wrench them out?

I watched a guy on You Tube do it pretty easy with a pipe wrench and an extension pipe on the end.
 

I purchased myself one of those portable blow torch things... I did see a video posted from the Loctite guys that said the best way to remove studs installed using loctite is to melt it with heat.

Fun times ahead!!

 

 

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Just now, AdRock said:

Ha, I have one of those at home and completely forgot about it! Did you just do it by hand or did you impact wrench them out?

I watched a guy on You Tube do it pretty easy with a pipe wrench and an extension pipe on the end.
 

I purchased myself one of those portable blow torch things... I did see a video posted from the Loctite guys that said the best way to remove studs installed using loctite is to melt it with heat.

Fun times ahead!!

 

 

By hand, but it is MUCH easier to use heat and it is fun. I was quite worried about it but that was easy as. You will hardly need any extension pipe with heat.

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Well, yesterday was a massive day! Felt like I got lots done.  Still amazes me when you see videos of people on youtube who tear down and split the case in one day!

I've lost count on how long it's taken me... probably 10 days at least. The thing that really slowed me down was rusted and inaccessible bolts and nuts - I lost hours there and LOTS of skin on my knuckles! 

Yesterday I started off by removing the head studs... the whole reason that I'm in this position in the first place!
I was kind of dreading doing this, after all of the horror stories I had read of people breaking studs, especially at case level.
I used a stud extraction tool like this

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It worked perfectly, however it took a bit of getting used to.  My tips for using it would be:

Draw a straight line on the top of each stud so that you can see if the stud is turning or twisting.
This tool is best used about half way down the stud in my opinion... This means less chance of the stud twisting and snapping.
However in this position, the tool will need something to bite onto, so youll most likely need to grind a flat side onto the stud. This works perfectly.
Because the tool needs to spin around the stud in order to get a bite, the studs that are close to another stud, one of the studs needs to be cut to allow room for the tool to spin.
Mostly I didn't need heat, but for about 4 of them, they didn't want to budge too easily, so I got out my bunnings portable blow torch and heated the case for 60 seconds around the stud and they loosened up and came out fairly easily.
Hardest part of the process was removing the stud from the tool after each extraction. This involved grabbing the stud with vice grips and turning the stud in the opposite direction. That was the only downside to this tool that I found.

They all came out, no breakages and I was feeling quite proud of myself!!!

Next came the flywheel and the crank pulley nut. 
I had to purchase a whole set of triple square bits from ebay for $35 just to get the 12mm bit that I needed to remove the flywheel.
Came off fairly easily, no issues there.
Then came the crank pulley bolt. Ugh! Nothing would budge it! Not even the impact wrench.
That was until I heated it up red hot and had another go with the impact wrench and then ZIP! Off it came... winning!!!

This meant that it was time to start undoing all the case bolts! Exciting!!
Took a while to make sure I had them all removed before I attempted to split the case.

Once they were all out, a few light taps with with a rubber mallet and piece of wood and it came apart, not too hard at all!
There's a trick for new players that you need to make sure you dont forget... Dont forget to undo the chain ramp bolts on the top half of the case before you lift it off! I lifted it up and couldn't remove the half because the chain was still wrapped around the chain ramp! You're pretty stuck at this point if you have forgotten this, because there's nowhere to put the case half down. You can't really put it back on top of the bottom case because your rods have since fallen to the sides meaning that they will be squashed between the edges of the case. I didn't have a choice though.  Lucky I had my impact wrench close by to reach with one hand and zip off the chain ramp bolts. while holding the top half with one arm.  Ugh.

And then you have yourself a split case!

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Obviously the bearings have never been replaced, as these are still stamped with 1/83. To be honest, I'm not completely sure what I'm looking for, but for an almost 40 year old car, the inside of the case looks like it's in bloody good condition!

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There's some wear on the bearings, but nothing too crunchy... I can't see any chunks of metal anywhere throughout the case or damaged bearings. Happy with that... I think.

 

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Any ideas on what could have caused these marks inside the engine case? Possibly something has come loose at some point inside the case?

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And then there's THIS! Apparently from what i've read on Pelican, this 'hole' that's right where the thermostat is, is quite normal? It looks like it's literally been HACKED out of there.
The guys on the pelican forum seem to think this is normal and there's even some photos on there of people with similar holes in their case. Possibly an afterthought for some reason at the factory? Anybody here got any clues?

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So, next on my to do list is to start cleaning all these parts and start doing some measuring! I'm going to try and do as much of this as I can, short of machine work.
I also still have to remove the heads from the cam towers.   I was quite surprised that considering all of the RTV sealant used around this engine, there was actually ZERO that was used to join the crank case together! Maybe the case has never been split before.

 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, ANF said:

Well done @AdRock! I must say those bearings look in very good condition!!

And people say that 928s are complex and hard to work on..... :lol::P:cool07::Beer:

I'm actually surprised at how simple the internals of the 911 engine are.  There's not much in there... a crank and and oil pump, some gears, bearings and rods.
I think as long as you're confident with all of your measurements - assembly seems to be fairly straight forward.  I say that now..... hahahah

At least from here on in, I shouldn't have to fight with any more rusty nuts and bolts!

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