Jump to content

Getting my 1983 911 cab back on the road


AdRock
 Share

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, AdRock said:

I'm actually surprised at how simple the internals of the 911 engine are.  There's not much in there... a crank and and oil pump, some gears, bearings and rods.
I think as long as you're confident with all of your measurements - assembly seems to be fairly straight forward.  I say that now..... hahahah

At least from here on in, I shouldn't have to fight with any more rusty nuts and bolts!

Most engines of that era, and a lot newer as well would fall into the same category. The 928 is probably (in 2 valve form) easier than a 911.....

You are now at the stage (or very near to) waiting on others to do work for you, I have been waiting on engine machinist for months now...…. :angry:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

Finally,  congrats mate, I was worrying about your studs :)))

? I'm glad you reminded me about that tool! I was going to use a pipe wrench! This was so much better! Thanks!

15 minutes ago, ANF said:

Most engines of that era, and a lot newer as well would fall into the same category. The 928 is probably (in 2 valve form) easier than a 911.....

You are now at the stage (or very near to) waiting on others to do work for you, I have been waiting on engine machinist for months now...…. :angry:

My 2L kombi engine seemed much more complex inside, mainly because the case also contained the cam and lifters... but still fairly simple I guess.

Yeh, I'm not looking forward to this part of the process... I hate relying on other people to work on my stuff.
I have a cylinder head specialist place just near where my car is stored who will assess my heads and probably do the work for me.
I'm hoping after measuring that my crank requires nothing more than a polish.  If the rods check out within spec, then probably just a re bushing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I got into the final part of the engine tear down over the weekend. 2 days worth with a little bit of cleaning thrown in. Even had the girlfriend cleaning parts in the ultrasonic cleaner.  I can recommend both for anybody needing parts cleaned! ;)


Found some more interesting bits and pieces as I continued the tear down. I removed the rods from the cranks - there was some wear, but nothing terrible that I could see. Once again the bearings are the originals from 1983.


I did notice that one of the bearing journals in the case looks like it had some dirt or something running through under the bearing with a fair amount of scoring... I dont think that any repair is required here. I'm pretty sure i can just clean it up and install a new bearing over the top, I can't actually feel any scratches. Maybe the machine shop will have other ideas.

2wqqNEMHp4Ut-q1M6_eZ9kD5MGeZuPVMj9FQ4iEB

2wqqNEMHp4Ut-q1M6_eZ9kD5MGeZuPVMj9FQ4iEB

 

I also found this.  I posted this on the classic porsche australia FB page.  Nobody really had any idea what is is.  It's not neat enough for my liking to have been drilled. My guess is a casting imperfection.  Given the matching dot on the back of the bearing, I would say that oil is getting through this hole.  I'll let the machine shop tell me what they think I should do with this... but i dont think it would be a problem to leave it as is - as it's likely been there since it was new.

 

MCY9Nni3jhcRPhMXx89G1NaxQ_TDsk0kLxuxdnqV

 

There was some IMS bearing wear, right down to the copper... but from what i have read, these bearing wear more than the rest and this is normal.
The other mains and rod bearings have much less wear. However a little patchy in places - but to my untrained eye,  I would have hoped that the wear would be a bit more uniform. on the mains. 

 

cHL0PNhCjpTT2jpTWYyLxHQjwDOy4fvQxZu6g1Je

 

KEbIDeF6o-d6MaUw3l1Ly7wIbk7cNTZRn6SrZAHo


Decent amount of wear here:

61hU2NN1ftDv71tcFz2Alb6D0LoW4OLTV-4svYZG

 

This is the only obvious pitting I could find on the cam shafts and it is TINY!  However, these will be sent off to Clive Cams for a bit of love.
Going to leave the stock grind on these.  From what I've read, the 964 cams have more torque at higher revs and the stock SC grind is more suited to lower range torque and even more even throughout the rev range.  Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I will repair and leave the profile as is.

 

 

 

 

...And then there's this. frown.gif
I have no idea what the hell I was thinking.
As you have seen in all of my previous photos, the engine is COVERED in silicone / RTV sealant. The cam towers to the heads are no different. In an effort to try and separate the cam tower and heads, I began tapping anywhere that looked suitable to be tapped with a piece of wood and rubber mallet.  Nothing would budge. Argh.... then.... when nothing would budge, I got to the point where to be honest I didn't even really look closely at where I was tapping. At first I thought, awesome - it's coming apart. Nope! It was the fin breaking off. AARGGGHH!!!! IDIOT!!!
On the positive side, I dont think it's in an area that will affect the function of the head and hopefully not reduce the heat dissipation too greatly. I could probably have the bits welded back on, but not sure if it's even necessary. I'll see what the cylinder head surgeon says.

3IgBs7EDp2ryfK3X42D3M6PUb0TDq__yxv37mEjY

6yYJRHzwtICKkaeqS56PSr2aSGAyT4bAisLcIBJG

 

Despite the above, I pushed on.... mounting the crank to the flywheel.  I picked up some micrometers from Total Tools so that I could measure the crank myself.
Measuring a crank is NOT as easy as it sounds.  Firstly the micrometers that I purchased only measure 0.00, whereas for an accurate crank reading you need to measure 0.000.

The minimum size of the main bearing journals crank before it needs to be machined is 59.971mm.  Most of my measurements appeared to be good around 59.980.  However a couple were coming up as somewhere between 59.97? and 59.980.  I don't trust the micrometer at all.  Infact i'm hoping it's not right, because it's getting close to where it would need to be ground for the next bearing size.  I'll suck it up and take the crank to a machine shop to measure the crank properly.

dfRpjJ68c9w6dfaOMS6MvphlLGqX4iL8gtH530kd

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Cheshire Cat said:

I see Jeff saying this on youtube lol 

How much did you pay for them? I`m pretty sure I have the same 4pcs kit...

Haha I filmed some video of me working on the engine, but there's too many swear words to post it anywhere.  :)

The micrometers were $150 in store... but I managed to get them from the eBay total tools store for $94. How do you find them?
I also read that for measuring the crank you should use ball tip micrometers to avoid scratches from the edges on the micrometer (like I did!)
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, AdRock said:

Haha I filmed some video of me working on the engine, but there's too many swear words to post it anywhere.  :)

The micrometers were $150 in store... but I managed to get them from the eBay total tools store for $94. How do you find them?
I also read that for measuring the crank you should use ball tip micrometers to avoid scratches from the edges on the micrometer (like I did!)
 

It is good to know mate, thanx! 

I got the kit from total tools for 99.95 (was on the price tag) and when the guy scanned it the machine showed 140+, had to tell him that I want this for the price on the tag and he had to sell it for 99.96 swearing on his co workers :))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spent a good part of the weekend cleaning down the inside and outside of the case. Thankfully SCA had degreaser on special for $1.50 per can! Went through about 10 cans between myself and my girlfriend.  She was on transmission duty, while I cleaned the case.   It's still far from perfect, but seriously... it's an engine, it doesn't need to be perfectly clean.  If there's an opportunity for the machinist to put it in a hot tank or ultrasonic cleaner, i'll do that, but i'm going going to go the soda blasting or hydro blasting route.

R9BwD5nhh0umvwLz-yIsZ9hdWfW2DmInyhG8d6J_

zH13h4ay0j_6uefPByfTucGB3gTczScExA3MHYa0

NfbModsGfMViClgYmrYU-Q2SSB18oKwLgd_rQKjB

And the girlfriend's handywork! Love a good before and after!

gqHtLjlZdx72yJIgrtLewgSx8xtZsYZ-ztSFkv-L

 

DO1U_1ZnFaWNxN81uefspcXkkezN8_9S7f3vwyF6

 

Everything is ready to send off to a machine shop now... just have to find the right machine shop - in price and in quality. Leaning towards either Windford Engineering in Scoresby or Speedworks in Ringwood, although from what I've read they are expensive - but awesome at what they do.    

For the life of me I cannot remove the heads from the cam towers... probably doesn't help that I ruined one of the fins in trying to do so... and now I'm paranoid to pull them apart using any type of force.  Does anybody have any tips?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, ANF said:

The first thing the machine shop will do is hot bath them top remove all dirt/ grime/ grease.... :)

Good work anyway!

Haha, I knew that... but i figure the hot bath won't remove everything and if I get most of it off before hand, there's a better chance that it will remove the stuff that i couldn't get off.I also prefer to not deliver a filthy engine case to the machine shop.

It also gave me a proper chance to look at the inside of the case and how everything worked / fit together. I think judging my some marks around the chain area, I think one of the chains let loose at some point inside the case - which is possibly why all the chain tensioners have been upgraded to the carrera style.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, AdRock said:

Haha, I knew that... but i figure the hot bath won't remove everything and if I get most of it off before hand, there's a better chance that it will remove the stuff that i couldn't get off.I also prefer to not deliver a filthy engine case to the machine shop.

It also gave me a proper chance to look at the inside of the case and how everything worked / fit together. I think judging my some marks around the chain area, I think one of the chains let loose at some point inside the case - which is possibly why all the chain tensioners have been upgraded to the carrera style.

 

Yes it does feel better :)

Fortunately my block was virtually spotless! Only thing dirty is the sump, and I have that here to clean.

Race, who will be finished first…. (mine has been at machine shop since April..... <_<) so you could be odds on...…  :D

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, ANF said:

Yes it does feel better :)

Fortunately my block was virtually spotless! Only thing dirty is the sump, and I have that here to clean.

Race, who will be finished first…. (mine has been at machine shop since April..... <_<) so you could be odds on...…  :D

 

Unfortunately I'm away this week, so it won't even be dropped off to the machine shop until late next week.
Have you been bugging your machine shop? Hopefully they gave you an idea of how long it would take? I'd like to be in the car by xmas time, but I really shouldn't be putting my hopes on any date really! It still needs new tyres, wiring to be sorted, needs to be complianced / RWC and if I have any money left - the soft top needs to be replaced!  If I dont have any money left, well there will be lots of fair weather driving! :)
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He used to give me estimates, now it's just "when I get to it"..... frustrating as if I had of known up front it would have been better. Still I have no option as he is the only one with experience with the liner locally....

No time was given up front but the way the conversation went and when I told him I wanted it, I was very hopeful of a return in July/ early August..... and there is still a lot of work for me to do once I get the bits back....

Money left, HaHa, what's that!! :D:blink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow. He actually says "when I get to it?" Sounds like someone I'd go out of my way to make sure they never see any of my money. ;)

I recently had an engine rebuilt for my volkswagen.  It took the builder at least SIX attempts to get it right over 2 years. And he was one of those guys that always had a story about why he hadn't finished (or started it). A couple of times I said I had had enough and was on my way to come and pick it up in pieces and get a refund - magically it ended up being ready pretty quickly after that!   Which is exactly why I'm doing everything I can myself this time around.   I'm nervous that i'm going to encounter a machine shop that takes months.
Not that I dont have plenty to do in the meantime... I just hate the whole chasing them up thing.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I can gather it is pretty common, not enough good people for the volume of work....

I have known this guy for ages, and he is the only one capable (at his business - he owns it) it do my job as it's fairly involved, h just needs to get on with it instead of running his business :D

I wanted my car ready for a drive in October, that will now not happen, which sucks but little I can do.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Just a little update....

Picked my case up from Windford Engineering. True to his word, it was ready within a week!
He hot tanked the case and pistons, torqued up the case and measured everything up. Confirmed that the case is in spec, as is the crank.
He balanced all of my rods, pistons, pins and re-bushed the small ends of the rods. Big ends were all within spec.

When I picked up my case, etc, I dropped off my heads also at Windford in scoresby. They'll get a good cleaning, then new springs, new valve guides, valves will be assessed for wear, etc.
Also hot tanking the cam towers and valve covers. Should be ready for pick up this weekend.

Just down the road from Windford is Clive Cams.  Dropped off my cams and cam followers with Clive.  He showed me some other Porsche bits he had just finished and they looked as good as new. Clive is a top bloke... looking forward to picking up my other bits... he reckons about 2 weeks.

Started bead blasting and painting my engine tin and other various bits over the weekend.  Bead blasting is a much slower process that I thought it would be!

Almost ready to put the case back together.  Now that I know what bearings i need, I can place my massive order for parts. 
Also going to get my big end rod bearings from ACL Bearings - I believe they are based in Launceston! Main bearings i'll just run with Glyco.  I checked with EBS Racing and they confirmed that they haven't had any issues with Glyco bearings for quite some time... so I'll give them a measure when I get them and see how we go.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, ANF said:

You lucky bugger!! I am still waiting.....

Yes ACL are down here, used to be a customer of mine many years ago!

Things look to be going very well for you :)

 

Haha don't jinx me!

Think you might need to pull the pin and find a new machine shop. Tell him you're coming to pick up your parts on Friday and take them somewhere else.
I'd be willing to bet they suddenly get some attention. ;)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just heard back from the machine shop, they started on my heads today.

Apparently 2 bent exhaust valves, including one with a chip that can't be machined out. This means two replacement exhaust valves required.

Glad I got them checked... as that would have been so disappointing to put it all back together only to have valve issues!

Also goes with my theory that at some point the engine had a major failure - I'm assuming that valves hitting pistons can cause bent valves?

I think judging by the scuff marks in the chain housing and the fact that carerra chain tensioners have been installed - something in that region failed - possibly the old tensioners.

Hopefully once it's all back together it will be as good as new! Pick up the heads this weekend. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/24/2018 at 11:44 AM, AdRock said:

Just a little update....

Picked my case up from Windford Engineering. True to his word, it was ready within a week!
He hot tanked the case and pistons, torqued up the case and measured everything up. Confirmed that the case is in spec, as is the crank.
He balanced all of my rods, pistons, pins and re-bushed the small ends of the rods. Big ends were all within spec.

When I picked up my case, etc, I dropped off my heads also at Windford in scoresby. They'll get a good cleaning, then new springs, new valve guides, valves will be assessed for wear, etc.
Also hot tanking the cam towers and valve covers. Should be ready for pick up this weekend.

Just down the road from Windford is Clive Cams.  Dropped off my cams and cam followers with Clive.  He showed me some other Porsche bits he had just finished and they looked as good as new. Clive is a top bloke... looking forward to picking up my other bits... he reckons about 2 weeks.

Started bead blasting and painting my engine tin and other various bits over the weekend.  Bead blasting is a much slower process that I thought it would be!

Almost ready to put the case back together.  Now that I know what bearings i need, I can place my massive order for parts. 
Also going to get my big end rod bearings from ACL Bearings - I believe they are based in Launceston! Main bearings i'll just run with Glyco.  I checked with EBS Racing and they confirmed that they haven't had any issues with Glyco bearings for quite some time... so I'll give them a measure when I get them and see how we go.

 

any rough money numbers for such job?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well! All of my gear is back from the machine shop, picked the rest of it up on Friday.

Cylinder heads look brand new - all new springs, worn valve guides replaced, etc. Don't have any cylinder head porn photos to post at the moment - will post some up on the weekend.

Also just dropped a massive load of cash on the guys over at EBS racing. Troy over there is really helpful and help me put together a really well priced shopping list - they seem to be cheaper than almost anywhere else I could find - and I've been searching for months.  I even went to the trouble of putting a spreadsheet together with parts price comparison. EBS almost always came up cheaper.

I decided to splurge on some ARP rod bolts.... I figure if somethings goes wrong in there - it's going to be the most expensive to resolve - so I thought it was worth the investment. My only problem is now - ARP apparently suggest that you install these using a stretch gauge to measure bolt stretch.  Only problem is that they are circa $300+ to buy from ARP.
You can buy some cheaper ones here for about $100 - but by all accounts they aren't easy to use.  Just wondering if anybody here has a ARP (or similar) that I could beg, buy, rent, steal or borrow for this job? Or alternatively - has anybody used these bolts and only relied on torque? If so, did you have success/confidence doing it this way?

Also - as mentioned earlier - after much reading and much paranoia, I shied away from Glyco for my rod bearings and with with the Tasmanian ACL Race Bearings. I've read so many good things about them - that I couldnt resist giving them a go.  They set me back $130

For the main bearings I went with the GT3 bearings.  There was a lot more confidence in those bearings across most of the threads I read on pelican and from the guys at EBS. Also they were only $30 more than standard Glyco 911 bearings.

For the IMS bearings - I went with the Porsche brand (which I believe are just pre-measured Glycos) which aren't much more expensive than Glyco name ones.

I think I've set myself up for success here... looking forward to starting to put bits back together soon!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Well, it's been a while since I updated here...

But the case halves are back together!

image.thumb.png.ad01b96addf362783866d3c706496357.png

 

They went back together late last year. Man that was a stressful day! I practiced a few times putting the halves back together and didn't have an issue during practice at all.  Then as you would expect - when it came to game time - I couldn't get the halves to line up - so it took a few goes. Did I mention that it was stressful? Especially when trying to get everything torqued down within the required timeframe - before the sealant sets. We got there in the end though. My GF was super patient and helpful and put up with me running out of swear words to use. haha.

Also got all the new head studs installed - which in comparison, was quite a nice - relaxing process to do and relatively straightforward. I went with simple steel replacement studs all around - I didn't opt for the high end race studs that some people use.  From what i read - it was unnecessary given this is a stock power engine.

The flywheel is currently off at a machine shop I found just down the road in North Melbourne - being resurfaced and balanced with the new pressure plate.
Also waiting on some rocker arm bushes to arrive from Germany from the guys at Porsche in Collingwood.  I didn't remove the bolts from the rocker shafts before extracting them - so I stupidly deeply scored some of the rocker bushings - so they need to be replaced.

I was in Japan over the christmas break - so not much else got done until last weekend when I spent the weekend sanding, cleaning, rust treating, priming and painting tinware and other bits and pieces.  At least it wasn't difficult - just tedious. One of the worst bits of tin was the rear-most tin that sits above the exhaust. It had actually been rubbing and the muffler and had rusted through.  So, I'll have to cut a small section out and weld a patch in there.

image.thumb.png.eec8d147b29d806b9fae7a4314ffe874.png

 

Next on the to do list is to determine the deck height and piston / valve clearance. Keen to hear any tips on how to do this - as it's not something I've done before.
I've read waynes book and lots of forum posts, but I'm still not confident. My heads have been resurfaced, so I'm tipping I'll at least need an extra shim... but I'll see how I get on. I might wait until the flywheel comes back before getting stuck into that. Plenty of other stuff to do in the car itself. eg. replace soundproofing, reinstall interior, install new steering wheel that i purchased and porsche seats that I bought.... then there's the electrics!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...