What to bring back to OZ - 996 GT3 RS or 1988 Clubsport

[WGA]

Looking for some feeback on what cars I could bring back to OZ from my stable when I return later this next year. Everything else I have is LHD so not considering any one of those.

If I understand the crazy personal import scheme correctly, I have the opportunity to bring back two cars - one under my name and one under my wife's name.    But after getting some info from a local company in Melbourne, I am beginning to wonder if it is worth the hassle given that they will always be "UK Imports" and the OZ market for some bizarre reason seems to discount UK cars by around 20%.  So I am starting to conclude that I should probably just sell them before I head back.

The first one is a 1988 White/red Clubsport with 35,000miles/60,000km. Based on the info I received, I would have to pay around $90,000 in taxes (based on current UK market value) pushing what the car would owe me to around $250,000. I have no idea what the market value of this car would be in OZ.

The second is a 996 GT3 RS white/blue with 25,000miles/40,000kms. For this one, I would have to pay around $105,000 in taxes (based on current UK market value) taking what the car would owe me towards $330,000.  Duttons have an OZ delivered car with 31,000km for sale at $400K which I am guessing you could probably get for $370,000 making my UK car marginal considering it will always be regards as a UK car. I am thinking I may as well sell the 996 in the UK and buy the Duttons car.

Would appreciate some feedback on what you genuinely think the market value in OZ of these two cars might be.

 

 

[Coastr]

When cars get very desirable the original delivery location is less important - but I’m not in that market so I don’t know.  

The biggest issue here is the taxes- I would be talking to an importer about it to see what can be done about the taxable valuations.  You don’t have to just take retail value and multiply by tax rate.

also unless you are twelve months out from importing, you can’t get someone else to import a car under the personal import scheme- it has to be registers, insured, etc under their name.

 But  it’s not an issue for you because your 1988 can be brought back anytime as it falls before the 1 jan 1989 build date for importing any car.  So as long as the RS is in your name you’re good to go.

the underlying question should be: do you want to keep one or both?  Importing rarely works out as a big profit, especially considering the hassle and time it takes.

Id look at reducing the taxes and keeping both if I had the cash, garage space and time.

[WGA]

53 minutes ago, Coastr said:

When cars get very desirable the original delivery location is less important - but I’m not in that market so I don’t know.  

The biggest issue here is the taxes- I would be talking to an importer about it to see what can be done about the taxable valuations.  You don’t have to just take retail value and multiply by tax rate.

also unless you are twelve months out from importing, you can’t get someone else to import a car under the personal import scheme- it has to be registers, insured, etc under their name.

 But  it’s not an issue for you because your 1988 can be brought back anytime as it falls before the 1 jan 1989 build date for importing any car.  So as long as the RS is in your name you’re good to go.

the underlying question should be: do you want to keep one or both?  Importing rarely works out as a big profit, especially considering the hassle and time it takes.

Id look at reducing the taxes and keeping both if I had the cash, garage space and time.

Thanks for the feedback. By the time I come back I will have owned both for over 12months and done around 8,000km on both. I don't want to bring them back to OZ if the market value is equal or below what they owe me. in this situation it would annoy me having paid the OZ government over $200K in taxes. In this case, I would rather buy OZ delivered cars.

So any additional comments out there about values? I understand that someone in OZ recently sold a 1988 Clubsport that got imported back to the UK. Would be interested to know what it sold for.

[Troubleshooter]

Geez those taxes seem high to me - someone here can break down the costs. Do you love the cars? I say bring them both even based on those tax and total $$$ numbers. Being sought after cars and both low ks, the import component becomes less of a price issue

[WGA]

1 hour ago, Troubleshooter said:

Geez those taxes seem high to me - someone here can break down the costs. Do you love the cars? I say bring them both even based on those tax and total $$$ numbers. Being sought after cars and both low ks, the import component becomes less of a price issue

The advice I got on the 996 GT3 RS was based on the current market price in the UK of 150,000 GBP. When converted to AUD and the Import Duty, GST and LCT is then applied , it comes out to $103,000 in taxes. $73,000 in LCT alone.

[edgy]

At the current numbers you suggest, I agree with you, it does look marginal, so if there is potentially a chance you may need to get out of them in the short term, I would say that the risk outweighs the reward. 

However, I think if you manage the tax situation to be, lets say more economic (and I'd imagine there is some scenarios you could do it above board). It is going to be worth it to a small degree in the short term, and most certainly the 996 RS is a good long term proposition... that is the colour combo I'd have it in, not that you asked. :lol: 

[IanJ]

When I looked in to this. I thought it was 10% of the value of the priced you paid in duty and the same in GST for anything newer than 30 years old (no duty if it’s older than 30) that you had owned for more than 12 months plus luxury car tax if the amount of gst paid was over a certain value? 

I think the key difference is having a receipt for what you paid and not letting customs dictate a price  

Did you manage to pick up both cars from a private seller at a bargain price? ?

One of the importers had a rough calculator but all of them can tell you exact costs if you contact them. 

[GTP911]

1 hour ago, WGA said:

The advice I got on the 996 GT3 RS was based on the current market price in the UK of 150,000 GBP. When converted to AUD and the Import Duty, GST and LCT is then applied , it comes out to $103,000 in taxes. $73,000 in LCT alone.

My understanding if you bring a "personal owned" vehicle from the UK, there are no additional duty/taxes?, refer link below:

https://infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/imports/import_options/pis.aspx

The purpose of the option

The personal imports option allows migrants settling in Australia, and expatriate Australian citizens returning permanently to Australia after a long period overseas, to bring their personal road vehicle with them, where the vehicle has been owned and used for a period of 12 months or longer.

The personal import option only covers individuals. Companies and/or corporations are not eligible to import a vehicle under this option.

[Mike-S]

Duty & GST are payable on the importation, simple as that. LCT also if the threshold is exceeded.

Valuations will need to be obtained from a local valuer, on which the duties etc will be calculated + import costs and insurances. You don’t have to use a receipt unless the car was bought within the 12 months and could be argued was specifically for importation. These valuers are sensible, they realise that sat on the docks unregistered and essentially unable to be registered until they’ve gone through compliance the values are much lower. Take the bottom trade value in the country of origin, drop it a bit and that’s what they’ll use. That valuation can then also be used for stamp duty purposes, even though VicRoads didn’t like it much.

I imported my RRS 6 years ago, valuation was bottom book UK and less than 30% of the Oz delivered value. All legitimately obtained and accepted by customs here. 

Suggest you email Gerry, the guy I used and ask him the questions. http://motorvaluers.com.au/

[TwoHeadsTas]

WGA, I'll mention your plans to a mate.  He has a 996 GT3RS that might end up going to UK if a local deal falls through.  If you have equivalent cars there might be some sort of swap deal that might work for both of you......

Perhaps PM me with some more details of the car and I'll refer on to him

[Avon]

Its worth doing it, especially for the GT3RS given it is rarer and more difficult to get into the country.  Having done this with a 99 C2 last year when returning from Europe here are a few tips.

1) The 1988 can be imported at will,  fits into the pre-89 option.  However there are slightly different rules for pre-89 vs. personal import such as saftey devices can be handled differently, and you need to consider asbestos more in an older vehicle.

2) Get an import agent to quote it all up for you.  The whole thing as a single amount, but itemized.  You could be pleasantly surprised, especially about the import duties.  I did the same thing as you and calculated what I thought it would be, but an import agent quoted thousands less in import duty... lets just say they know the system a lot better and know er... how to navigate through it at substantial saving to you.

3) Stamp duty is NOT payable on vehicles you already own.  If you get told otherwise at your local govvy office differently when you go to register it here, find another branch.  Make sure you have extremely clear, signed, dated purchase documents.

 

I used Dominic Bonasia (personal imports ltd) in QLD and can highly recommend him, as I said above, saved me thousands and a LOT of stress.

 

[spiller]

Im just here to see pics of the 996RS. Blue is worth more than red, or so they say...

[hugh]

6 hours ago, spiller said:

Im just here to see pics of the 996RS. 

+1

[WGA]

12 hours ago, Windsor289 said:

My understanding if you bring a "personal owned" vehicle from the UK, there are no additional duty/taxes?, refer link below:

https://infrastructure.gov.au/vehicles/imports/import_options/pis.aspx

The purpose of the option

The personal imports option allows migrants settling in Australia, and expatriate Australian citizens returning permanently to Australia after a long period overseas, to bring their personal road vehicle with them, where the vehicle has been owned and used for a period of 12 months or longer.

The personal import option only covers individuals. Companies and/or corporations are not eligible to import a vehicle under this option.

Thats what I thought too so got excited about bringing back a couple of my cars with zero tax...but.....all this does is give you the right to import a car. All the taxes still apply so there is no financial benefit.

[symsy]

Also  I would go with some lower reasonable values  .. just take a look at some of the possible references ..  Red book for example .. we all know its crap but some use it 

2007 GT3 997 .. Use the low number , I would say market is for example 190-220

*Trade In Price Guide

$132,800 - $149,800  ..

Private sale - $147,700 - $164,700

Check your car … You can also be in need some some work!!!!  Nice little ocndition report from your friendly aftermarket in the uk…  thats another 20% of its value scratched.

Efficient and professional importers whiz through this stuff , most govt people are lazy get yourself a really confident and switched on importer, it will be rubber stamped super quick

 

 

[spiller]

I would recommend Iron Chef imports. At least speak to them. They bring in cars from Japan, USA and Europe/UK, have been doing it for years and know how to do it efficiently whilst keeping it above board. 

[ELSPORTO]

There are only 3 x Aussie delivered 3.2 Carrera CS's, so you might find someone who desperately wants one and is willing to pay good money for a UK one.

From memory the Aussie ones traded for around the $300 mark.

By your calcs you paid $160k AUD for yours ... it's worth that in GBP in the UK right now no?

I'd be selling it in it's country of origin and using the $275K AUD to get close to a rhd 2.7 MFI Carrera ...

[WGA]

On 5/8/2018 at 3:07 PM, symsy said:

Also  I would go with some lower reasonable values  .. just take a look at some of the possible references ..  Red book for example .. we all know its crap but some use it 

2007 GT3 997 .. Use the low number , I would say market is for example 190-220

*Trade In Price Guide

$132,800 - $149,800  ..

Private sale - $147,700 - $164,700

Check your car … You can also be in need some some work!!!!  Nice little ocndition report from your friendly aftermarket in the uk…  thats another 20% of its value scratched.

Efficient and professional importers whiz through this stuff , most govt people are lazy get yourself a really confident and switched on importer, it will be rubber stamped super quick

Thanks for the tip. I took a look at Redbook and using the lower end of the price range makes the taxes a whole lot lower.

 

 

On 5/9/2018 at 12:40 PM, ELSPORTO said:

There are only 3 x Aussie delivered 3.2 Carrera CS's, so you might find someone who desperately wants one and is willing to pay good money for a UK one.

From memory the Aussie ones traded for around the $300 mark.

By your calcs you paid $160k AUD for yours ... it's worth that in GBP in the UK right now no?

I'd be selling it in it's country of origin and using the $275K AUD to get close to a rhd 2.7 MFI Carrera ...

I really want to bring back the Clubsport. IMHO, it is such an under rated car. It is an RS in all but name. I love all the little things that Porsche did with this car including removing the passenger sun visor to save weigth. As a result, for its HP, it is a surprisingly lively car. In the UK they sell for around 150K GBP.

[HUL911]

Only four  911 CS delivered new to Aust. so it's the CS in my opinion.

[ELSPORTO]

10 hours ago, WGA said:

I really want to bring back the Clubsport. IMHO, it is such an under rated car. It is an RS in all but name. I love all the little things that Porsche did with this car including removing the passenger sun visor to save weigth. As a result, for its HP, it is a surprisingly lively car. In the UK they sell for around 150K GBP.

100% bring it back if it's a keeper ... if you're selling, do it in the UK. 

 

8 hours ago, HUL911 said:

Only four  911 CS delivered new to Aust. so it's the CS in my opinion.

Flushed out a real one?!

Nice 1st post HUL911 .... what's the scoop with your car ... assuming that's your car in the pic?

[carl888]

I can't see any financial upside in bringing either of the two cars to Australia to make money.  Once here and complied the personal import stigma applies and I think in the current market there is not enough margin to make this risk worthwhile.  At a pinch, bring the CS, there's only a handful here.  Whilst you have the advantage of the 10.3:1 engine in your car, it's not an Australian delivery, and rightly or wrongly, that matters when selling.

The only people I know who have imported cars from UK and Europe and made the exercise financially rewarding upon subsequent sale in the last 5 years are those that brought in cars that were never offered for sale here officially.  Examples include but are not restricted to:  328 GTB, 288 GTO, F40, F50, Enzo, Integrale, 190E 2.3/2.5-16, E30 M3, 959, 918, etc.

You don't sound like you're living in the streets, any reason why you wouldn't keep one O/S, take two months off each year and attend a few European events?

[WGA]

On 5/14/2018 at 8:25 AM, carl888 said:

I can't see any financial upside in bringing either of the two cars to Australia to make money.  Once here and complied the personal import stigma applies and I think in the current market there is not enough margin to make this risk worthwhile.  At a pinch, bring the CS, there's only a handful here.  Whilst you have the advantage of the 10.3:1 engine in your car, it's not an Australian delivery, and rightly or wrongly, that matters when selling.

The only people I know who have imported cars from UK and Europe and made the exercise financially rewarding upon subsequent sale in the last 5 years are those that brought in cars that were never offered for sale here officially.  Examples include but are not restricted to:  328 GTB, 288 GTO, F40, F50, Enzo, Integrale, 190E 2.3/2.5-16, E30 M3, 959, 918, etc.

You don't sound like you're living in the streets, any reason why you wouldn't keep one O/S, take two months off each year and attend a few European events?

Good question. I plan to to keep my 964 RS, GT3 Touring, 997.2 GT3 RS and new GT3.2 RS WP in Europe (all LHD) and come back each year for the track season. Will sell what’s left.

[JLD]

I'd bring the 88 CS, you're less likely to be able to buy one here than the RS

[Troubleshooter]

^^^ what he said - plus you'll have more street cred  with an AC with us PFAers 

[npvpositive]

Definitely the Clubsport.  There is no shortage of RS cars here . . . but an 88 Clubsport is something special.  You would have no problems selling it at all.