Subdivision Development advice

[Troubleshooter]

Ok learned gents, some will have experience in this. Looking for a little pricing advice before I chase up some other quotes.

I'm doing a 6 lot subdivision on a basically flat near on 1.5 acre corner allotment, min 864 mtr lots. A 40 metre "concrete 5mtr wide road" no footpaths but grass reserves, will run into the centre of the 1.5 acre as the entrance and 6 driveway crossings off of it. The town planning company I engaged are about to lodge application and a possibility it'll be rejected (they'll allow 5 lots) and then it's on to VCat if so. 

The intention is to provide a building design for each lot, (only for  demonstration purposes) for how the lot can contain a house while ensuring that the trees remain viable. Furthermore we want to provide a landscape plan of the site showing additional vegetation which may or may not ultimately be tied to the lots. This will be beneficial to really sell the development to council. 

The fees I've been quoted to prepare 6 conceptual house plans and 3d images of the site will be $6k+gst and the Landscape plan will be an additional $3K+gst. The landscape plan is basically placing around 12 trees along the "road" and around 30 trees around the perimeter of the 1.5 acre.

These prices sound a bit rich to me. Any thoughts on pricing gents?

 

[turboT]

get what you pay for. That sounds cheap. Hugh is your man in Melbourne

[MFX]

59 minutes ago, Troubleshooter said:

Ok learned gents, some will have experience in this. Looking for a little pricing advice before I chase up some other quotes.

I'm doing a 6 lot subdivision on a basically flat near on 1.5 acre corner allotment, min 864 mtr lots. A 40 metre "concrete 5mtr wide road" no footpaths but grass reserves, will run into the centre of the 1.5 acre as the entrance and 6 driveway crossings off of it. The town planning company I engaged are about to lodge application and a possibility it'll be rejected (they'll allow 5 lots) and then it's on to VCat if so. 

The intention is to provide a building design for each lot, (only for  demonstration purposes) for how the lot can contain a house while ensuring that the trees remain viable. Furthermore we want to provide a landscape plan of the site showing additional vegetation which may or may not ultimately be tied to the lots. This will be beneficial to really sell the development to council. 

The fees I've been quoted to prepare 6 conceptual house plans and 3d images of the site will be $6k+gst and the Landscape plan will be an additional $3K+gst. The landscape plan is basically placing around 12 trees along the "road" and around 30 trees around the perimeter of the 1.5 acre.

These prices sound a bit rich to me. Any thoughts on pricing gents?

 

It has been 3 or 4 years since I submitted any concept plans, but for 2 lot subdivisions I have done I think I paid around $1500 for the concept plans and around $600 each for landscape plans. 

[turboT]

1 hour ago, MFX said:

It has been 3 or 4 years since I submitted any concept plans, but for 2 lot subdivisions I have done I think I paid around $1500 for the concept plans and around $600 each for landscape plans. 

I'd never make any money out of you two ?

[Troubleshooter]

2 hours ago, MFX said:

It has been 3 or 4 years since I submitted any concept plans, but for 2 lot subdivisions I have done I think I paid around $1500 for the concept plans and around $600 each for landscape plans. 

Thanks Jeff sounds like mine's not too far from that if extrapolated

45 minutes ago, turboT said:

I'd never make any money out of you two ?

Cmon Tom, should be half that price for the concept plans, just a concept not bespoke! They'll just be grabbing 6 standard designs outta the computer and slapping on a green background, job done!

[turboT]

30 minutes ago, Troubleshooter said:

 

Cmon Tom, should be half that price for the concept plans, just a concept not bespoke! They'll just be grabbing 6 standard designs outta the computer and slapping on a green background, job done!

you sound like half my clients..

[Troubleshooter]

1 minute ago, turboT said:

you sound like half my clients..

Gotta keep you blokes honest, playing with other's cashola

[sleazius]

You don't want to know what i paid my landscape architect. Sounds cheap as chips.

[GC9911]

Paid my landscape architect $15K for 5 acres of garden, pool, dam, roads etc. Expensive maybe but the professional service he delivered was worth it, I think it was mentioned here before, you get what you pay for.

[Troubleshooter]

50 minutes ago, sleazius said:

You don't want to know what i paid my landscape architect. Sounds cheap as chips.

 

32 minutes ago, GC9911 said:

Paid my landscape architect $15K for 5 acres of garden, pool, dam, roads etc. Expensive maybe but the professional service he delivered was worth it, I think it was mentioned here before, you get what you pay for.

Thanks for your input guys, appreciate it  but I think this landscape "concept" is a little different to your situations "The landscape plan is basically placing around 12 trees along the "road" and around 30 trees around the perimeter of the 1.5 acre. And that's it! If I had the computer program and it was my profession, I could knock it up along with the dialogue/smoozy report in half a day. I was thinking more around $1500 incl gst should cover the tree concept.

[GC9911]

11 minutes ago, Troubleshooter said:

 

Thanks for your input guys, appreciate it  but I think this landscape "concept" is a little different to your situations "The landscape plan is basically placing around 12 trees along the "road" and around 30 trees around the perimeter of the 1.5 acre. And that's it! If I had the computer program and it was my profession, I could knock it up along with the dialogue/smoozy report in half a day. I was thinking more around $1500 incl gst should cover the tree concept.

And if it’s a second rate presentation that doesn’t get your project across the line with the council, what will that cost?

[LeeM]

  Just knocked this up for ya. Will send my bank details via pm. Cheap Mate! ?

[Troubleshooter]

3 minutes ago, GC9911 said:

And if it’s a second rate presentation that doesn’t get your project across the line with the council, what will that cost?

Believe me I hear you and I wont allow a 2nd rate presentation and I'll pay what I have to but I hate getting gouged if unnecessary. So far over the last 8 months since the development began I have seen every 2nd outsourced consultant/contractor getting right in for his chop, snouts in the trough, overcharging me by double a coupla times and I've found the service myself at half sometimes when I've investigated. 

5 minutes ago, LeeM said:

  Just knocked this up for ya. Will send my bank details via pm. Cheap Mate! ?

Hhahahah - And that's about all the road concept will look like when presented Lee, albeit spit n polished in correct format. Knock up one for the boundary also and the 3,3k is yours mate. Can't knock your immediate service either, makes a change from waiting 1 month a report, 2 months an inspection, etc etc etc

[LeeM]

1 hour ago, Troubleshooter said:

 Knock up one for the boundary also and the 3,3k is yours mate. Can't knock your immediate service either

 Sweet!  I'm a gun with photo editing texta mate ?

  Gimme 10 and I'll see what I can do 

@Troubleshooter Here ya go (Not to scale though ofcourse)

 Hope it helps ?

[Troubleshooter]

When I do some council flats I'll give you a hoy!

[LeeM]

1 hour ago, Troubleshooter said:

When I do some council flats I'll give you a hoy!

?

[hugh]

10 hours ago, Troubleshooter said:

Ok learned gents, some will have experience in this. Looking for a little pricing advice before I chase up some other quotes.

I'm doing a 6 lot subdivision on a basically flat near on 1.5 acre corner allotment, min 864 mtr lots. A 40 metre "concrete 5mtr wide road" no footpaths but grass reserves, will run into the centre of the 1.5 acre as the entrance and 6 driveway crossings off of it. The town planning company I engaged are about to lodge application and a possibility it'll be rejected (they'll allow 5 lots) and then it's on to VCat if so. 

The intention is to provide a building design for each lot, (only for  demonstration purposes) for how the lot can contain a house while ensuring that the trees remain viable. Furthermore we want to provide a landscape plan of the site showing additional vegetation which may or may not ultimately be tied to the lots. This will be beneficial to really sell the development to council. 

The fees I've been quoted to prepare 6 conceptual house plans and 3d images of the site will be $6k+gst and the Landscape plan will be an additional $3K+gst. The landscape plan is basically placing around 12 trees along the "road" and around 30 trees around the perimeter of the 1.5 acre.

These prices sound a bit rich to me. Any thoughts on pricing gents?

 

There are a lot of questions and variables that need to be ascertained before anyone could come close to verifying your listed quotations (where is the site, overlays, special conditions etc. etc) I also am not understanding the strategy (if there is one?), are you lodging just to get a refusal and head to VCAT or are you looking to gain support at a council level? For example, you maybe better off investing more upfront to get a really great + high quality proposal together that will get council support than spend another 6-8 months sitting on a site while you go to VCAT (VCAT isn't a cheap option either) and be going for broke through that process (Due to not being in a position to appeal the VCAT decision). 

Saving yourself a couple of grand upfront may come at quite an added expense downstream. 

It all sounds easy enough but its definitely not that simple anymore and requirements (+expectations) can vary significantly pending the location of the site and its respective council. 

[Troubleshooter]

Thanks for your input Hugh, will take it onboard. We definately have a strategy and after various discussions with them lodging to gain council support is the aim. As I knew it would be, extras of $10k here, $20k there, another 5k for this, and a drain now required over there $30k.... I always knew it would be like that. Was just keeping an eye on the ledger.

[hugh]

14 minutes ago, Troubleshooter said:

Thanks for your input Hugh, will take it onboard. We definately have a strategy and after various discussions with them lodging to gain council support is the aim. As I knew it would be, extras of $10k here, $20k there, another 5k for this, and a drain now required over there $30k.... I always knew it would be like that. Was just keeping an eye on the ledger.

Gaining council support is getting harder and slower but its still typically quicker and less costly than taking it to VCAT. Council's are also typically broke so they rely on you (the developer) to pay for upgrading to infrastructure that can extend well beyond the proximity of your site - you are at their mercy in terms of these associated costs. Also, the ever increasing project team of secondary consultants required to provide advice and reports, nothing is a few hundred, its all thousands...............almost as bad as Porsches!  

Its definitely not an easy game but if you can get the right team/professionals together it definitely helps to get ultimately better outcomes in terms of approvals.  

[Troubleshooter]

I definatly hear you Hugh. There's a fat pay cheque at the end of the day and everybody's aware of that and in for their bit as well, council included, and nothing wrong with that. Provided I get my full bit as well hhahaa

[sleazius]

21 hours ago, GC9911 said:

Paid my landscape architect $15K for 5 acres of garden, pool, dam, roads etc. Expensive maybe but the professional service he delivered was worth it, I think it was mentioned here before, you get what you pay for.

I think I paid about $35k in 2009. 3 acres or so, lots of revisions, and they took it to council and got it approved (council fees and 'experts' not included in that figure). Pool took up 9 months of the 14 months total.