924/944 running and maintenance costs

[sim84]

Hi, I'm new to the forum, and have very little knowledge of cars. I've driven a 2002 Mitsubishi Mirage for almost 10 years, and it has been an amazing little car, only costing $200 to $300 a year on servicing (plus tires), with good fuel economy. It's almost time for an upgrade though, and while looking around on carsales.com.au, I started looking at 80s Porsches. I've always wanted one as I really dig their looks, and it seems like there are 924 and 944 models to be had for $10k to 20k, with the sellers stating they are in good working order. I'm guessing that I won't get the kind of low maintenance costs I've experienced with my Mirage, but I'd like to get a rough idea of the typical maintenance costs involved per year of keeping these vehicles running. That way I can either give up the idea of buying an 80s Porsche for now, or start getting more in depth with my research. I'm not opposed to the idea of learning to do some maintenance myself, but this would only work if it was the kind of thing a diligent novice could learn to do without screwing things up. Thanks in advance for your help!

Cheers,

Simon

[brian in buddina]

Simon

Welcome to the forum. One does not buy a Porsche thinking about maintenance costs. One buys a P car because he has too.

If @Jason E gives his 2 cents worth, in answer to your question, you will change forums and take up golf.

I remember asking the same question, but couldn't sleep until I got one. Mine being a 30 year old 944, and maintained 'well' still has a list a mile long on things to refurbish, fix & repair. I knew this going in. I'm trying to do most of the work myself, with forum assistance for the satisfaction of doing it myself.  

If on the other hand you can't sleep at night until you get your hands on one, welcome to the society.

brian in buddina

 

[Jason E]

Hello Simon,

944s are bloody great fun, look bloody awesome & are bloody dear to own (until they're sorted then they are just expensive like any older classic).  If you have disposable income that isn't already allocated to important matters like - children, eating, medical bills, mortgages, 3rd wives etc, etc, etc then they are the car for you.

My phone number is 0410 439 764.  It will probably take a conversation to either convert you or crucify your dreams.  Talk soon.

Jesus E

[sim84]

Thanks for the replies. The majority of my income is reserved for guitars, basses, recording studio gear etc. For me the car is a necessity to get around, but if I can afford to get around in something that looks cool, and might even appreciate in value, then why not? I’m happy to learn about maintenance and spend a couple of weekends a year getting greasy, but I don’t have time for it to be a main focus of my life, and I don’t want to be spending thousands of dollars a year to keep it running. Some of the stuff I’ve read suggests that if you’re smart about it, get hold of an interchangeable parts guide and do some of the simple maintenance yourself, it’s possible to run an 80s Porsche without spending an arm and a leg. Other stuff I’ve read makes me think it’s a pipe dream on my budget. I’m just trying to get an idea of what kind of costs I can expect in an average year of running a 924 or 944 assuming I find one in reasonable condition for around $15k. Thanks for the offer Jason E, the reception is pretty bad where I am at the moment but I’ll try giving you a ring later if I can.

[Airhead]

Don't listen to the naysayers above. ?

My wife ran a 944 as a daily driver for 7 years. Did 74400kms. Regularly serviced and maintained by Porsche specialist.

All costs (maintenace, rego, insurance) & including fuel worked out at $0.52 per kilometer including the low 2K depreciation from the buy price to the sell price. Look up RACV cost schedule for modern cars and see how that compares.

Buy the best car you can afford, use it and enjoy it.

[edgy]

Most say the 924 is cheaper to own and maintain because of the Audi/VW motor and some other mechanical parts interchange.  

In my experience with a 924, if it’s mechanically sound, and well maintained they do not cost much to own at all. 

Service parts are cheap, i know this because I have bought pretty much every consumable there is, as I had to recommission my one after a decade of storage, we replaced practically everything rubber (hoses), rebuilt the entire brake system, new tyres, timing belt, water pump etc the list goes on! It wasn’t too bad at all. 

Just keep in mind they’re getting a little long in the tooth, but keeping it moving is usually the best thing for it rather than storing it away. 

[tazzieman]

You can do it!
It's swings and roundabouts with parts prices/maintenance compared to more modern and more complex cars.

Porsches are very durable , being built from high quality components. 
Compared to most 80s cars , they feel bulletproof. 
If the bones are good , cosmetics not too bad and the major items up to date (Timing belt/waterpump on 944 , clutch) there shouldn't be too much risk/pain.

...providing  you are prepared to sort out the various niggles (common to all old cars) yourself. As a diligent novice , you'll be OK.
Luckily with the internet there are all sorts of work arounds and free advice to keep these beauties humming!

Buy the best you can afford and avoid the projects/ghetto modded ones.
Best of luck 

[Jason E]

10 hours ago, sim84 said:

Hi, I'm new to the forum, and have very little knowledge of cars. I've driven a 2002 Mitsubishi Mirage for almost 10 years, and it has been an amazing little car, only costing $200 to $300 a year on servicing (plus tires), with good fuel economy. It's almost time for an upgrade though, and while looking around on carsales.com.au, I started looking at 80s Porsches. I've always wanted one as I really dig their looks, and it seems like there are 924 and 944 models to be had for $10k to 20k, with the sellers stating they are in good working order. I'm guessing that I won't get the kind of low maintenance costs I've experienced with my Mirage, but I'd like to get a rough idea of the typical maintenance costs involved per year of keeping these vehicles running. That way I can either give up the idea of buying an 80s Porsche for now, or start getting more in depth with my research. I'm not opposed to the idea of learning to do some maintenance myself, but this would only work if it was the kind of thing a diligent novice could learn to do without screwing things up. Thanks in advance for your help!

Cheers,

Simon

Just thought I would add some thoughts on your initial post -  I daily drive my 944 & it is terrific.  I don't begrudge the money I've spent & if you are passionate about cars neither will you.  Having said that it's ownership has cost me more than I thought.  I suppose the costs are comparative to what you have to spend.  Some will say it doesn't cost much, others like me might say they've been surprised at the ongoing costs.  I've met some great people through owning my car & had some great times.  Smiles for miles are worth the spend in my opinion.  I'm not trying to be negative or stifle your enthusiasm but I think eyes wide open is good.

 

Hi, I'm new and have very little knowledge of cars.  This isn't an issue unless you either have enough disposable cash to afford the labour costs of a good Porsche indie Mechanic (Call it $150 p/hr) or are looking to learn about doing basic maintenance yourself.  Do you have tools?

There are heaps of youtube vids & excellent sites like Clarks Garage/ Pelican etc that have very detailed "how to's".  I have used them myself to do jobs that seemed daunting but were not too bad once I'd dipped my toe in.  If you are handy with a mechanical mind you should be good.  I've been lucky that a mate gives me heaps of direction & allows me to use his tools.  All it costs me is beer!!  I don't have an inherently mechanical mind so I feel much better with a guide or specific instructions. 

I've driven a 2002 Mitsubishi Mirage for almost 10 years, only costing $200 to $300 a year on servicing (plus tires).   I had to replace my oil pressure sensor this week.  It's about the size of one of those really small vegemite jars.  The cheapest I could get it was $166.00 (I spent about 2hrs looking for better prices in Australia/ USA/UK/ Latvia friggin everywhere)- so there's half your yearly budget that your used to spending on one minor, little, easy job (No labour I did it myself on a friends hoist with borrowed tools & knowledge).

I started looking at 80s Porsches, and it seems like there are 924 and 944 models to be had for $10k to 20k, with the sellers stating they are in good working order.

A standard 2.5 (not being a Turbo or an S2) will be late teens for a decent car (hopefully).  DEFINITELY get a pre purchase inspection - this will be $500 plus but worth it to tell you if the car has issues.

Speak to @bear924 he's had a 924 for 20 years & has done everything & will give you an accurate idea on costs.  I've only had my 944 for 2 years others will give you more years of experienced advice.  I think most would say a 944 is a "better" car as a daily driver over a 924 due to being more modern/ powerful/ parts easier to source etc. 

As a few others have said - get the best one you can (this often means spend as much as you can afford on a well kept car) wait until you get a car that has been properly looked after.  Many sellers will say their cars are great (in order to sell their car).  A forum like this generally attracts people who look after their cars & when they sell you will do better here than you might on fleabay/ carsales etc.

I'm guessing that I won't get the kind of low maintenance costs I've experienced with my Mirage, but I'd like to get a rough idea of the typical maintenance costs involved per year of keeping these vehicles running.

I PERSONALLY have found the car comparatively expensive generally to bring it back to daily driver condition compared to say a modern sporty car.  Lets say you bought a Toyota 86 for $25k & in good condition.  Might cost 1k per year in total servicing costs etc.  I search the internet for deals on parts, buy good used where I can but the price is generally high & the freight is expensive from both US & UK where you will source most of your parts.  Plus your more modern car will require less ongoing maintaining of the little things that break or need upkeeping.  Most cars that have been really well kept or recently revitalized are more expensive than your middle of the road cars due to the costs getting them to that condition.  

That way I can either give up the idea of buying an 80s Porsche for now, or start getting more in depth with my research.

Don't give up - they are great cars - outstanding really - but in depth research will show you the true cost. 

I'm not opposed to the idea of learning to do some maintenance myself, but this would only work if it was the kind of thing a diligent novice could learn to do without screwing things up.

Be honest with yourself - does this mean you're happy to change the oil every 10 thousand or happy to install a new clutch?  I took my car to a well known Porsche Indie here in Brisbane to do "a few small things" when I went to pick it up the bill was near $2500.00.  I couldn't believe it, they where small jobs.  Nearly all the big jobs I do with a mate.  So the costs are high if you are paying for labour.

Good luck, I hope you decide to go ahead, if you do the smiles for miles are worth the cost.

[SteveF]

Simon, they are a fantastic car with lots of character and well worth the cost of ownership. I have had mine for about 18 months and i think in above average condition. I have probably spent about $3k to $4k over various bits and pieces as I want to get it back to original but could have gotten away with spending less because many things didn’t need to be done. 

If you are going to daily drive the car I would recommend an 944 with the more modern dash and air conditioning. As mentioned above check to see if the clutch and belts have been done as they are the more expensive items to replace.

As with any car buy on condition and the best one you can afford. Do it, you won’t regret it!!!

[bear924]

I believe the 80's water cooled transaxle cars are fantastic buying for a Porsche enthusiast who wants to get into classic Porsche ownership. I would suggest that you highlight the following key words - enthusiast, classic Porsche.

The reality of owning any old car is that you'll be replacing lots of stuff unless you happen to come across a very well sorted car that was owned by a true enthusiast owner.   I do nearly all my work on my 924, and it can still get expensive, they require an effort to source parts, and you do need access to tools and an area to work on them. If you are an enthusiast, this kind of hassle is part of the joy of owning a classic Porsche. If you are less of an enthusiast, this kind of hassle will just grind you down until you sell the car.

The other thing to remember is that older cars are not new cars. Even with the best of efforts, they will sometime break down in a very inconvenient time. Your partner will question your sanity of driving a car that will nearly always have something little that needs sorting. It won't really be that quick, sub 200 hp in a car is not particularly exciting performance wise these days.  If spending $$ repairing the car instead of buying a new music gear will annoy you, I would reflect on what you want to achieve out of your ownership experience.

On the plus side. These car will probably not depreciate and may even go up in value a little (I don't anticipate they'll ever become collectible like the 911). They are fun cars to drive, and the 924 is a great car to learn mechanicing skills as they are relatively simple. You will get car enthusiast talk to your car when you are out and about, and you will become known as the guy who drives a Porsche. You may even luck into a good one and years of low cost motoring.

If you are looking for a cheapish Porsche that is fun to drive, however want some of the modern trappings, I suggest you consider purchasing a Boxster (I'd suggest S2 986). These car are a little unloved, however they are amazing cars that were highly praised when new (Australia's motor mag gave the 986 s1 and s2 boxsters PCOTY back in their day.) The chances of finding a good example is higher than 924/944, and I understand they are actually not too difficult to work on yourself. 

 

[TINGY]

@sim84i have had 3 944's, 1st one was a series 2, 2.5 ltr with the round dash. This car cost me the same amount of money in maintenance over the 3 years that i owned it that i paid for the car. The guy i got it off was not a car guy and it showed, paint was weathered, needed a full service and lots andlots of jobs done, air con system can cost a bomb also.

Next car i got is the car that everyone wants, full service history, immaculate interior with 9/10 paint and not much to spend, 1989 turbo with S spec options, I got extremely lucky with this car and would confidently drive it anywhere in Australia on a trip. Spend on this car has been a new battery, clutch master and slave cyl, (you will do these on any 944 that has sat around and not had regular use) new rotors and pads and front caliper rebuild and also a full belts and water pump service. What i have spent is mostly regular maintenance and the other big ticket item is the A/C system on these cars, with 3 cars i  have had this has failed with everyone being the compressor from lack of use.

I also had an S2 which for me would be the pick for a daily driver, this was also a great car in great condition with a failing A/C and also had to replace the clutch master cylinder. I took this on a big weekend away and was very impressed, great brakes, good power and most of all the neutral handling of these cars is the biggest asset. 

Buy a shitty car and it may put you off the Porsche experience forever if you haven't got the funds to spend on the maintenance which is more than your average car. If you can stretch to a good car with a good maintenance history you will just have the ongoing costs to keep it up to date and you can buy something like this. 

This is a forum members car and is said to be well sorted, i'm not trying to sell his car just pointing out a good one.

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-944-1990/SSE-AD-5596790/?Cr=2

[Pintail]

Hi Simon and Others,

I'm another one new to this forum. 

My car is a 924 - (1984).  I have been lucky enough to find one that was owned by someone for the previous 27 years.  Always serviced by Porsche specialists in Melbourne. No corners cut.

Inspection showed the car to be original and in good condition. With it I received a fat binder with full maintenance history details. Have had it now for four years.  All maintenance is carried out by a garage where they often work on classic cars. I just clean and polish.

During my time I have clocked-up some 16000 km.  Cost of maintenance to date is $2400 over four years.  This includes a one-of post-purchase inspection.,  but does not include the next basic service due this September.

Annual basic service cost me around $250.

Additional items were: relining rear brake shoes ;  adjust valve clearances;  worn gear shift bush;  replace brake master cylinder. That's all.

I live in TasTarga territory and the sheer driving pleasure I get from my little lightweight 924 on my weekly trip to the big smoke in Hobart  (two hours round trip), I just find difficult to describe.  Not exactly a muscle car, but so well balanced,  precise and forgiving. Have never driven another Porsche,  so I don't compare,  just enjoy the 924 for what it is. Damn thing really grows on you.    So what does all this mean to me in terms of running and maintenance cost?   Huge value for money. 

Simon, if you would like to talk,  you can get me on 0427 951006.

Cheers/Svend

 

[Jason E]

1 hour ago, Pintail said:

Hi Simon and Others,

I'm another one new to this forum. 

My car is a 924 - (1984).  I have been lucky enough to find one that was owned by someone for the previous 27 years.  Always serviced by Porsche specialists in Melbourne. No corners cut.

Inspection showed the car to be original and in good condition. With it I received a fat binder with full maintenance history details. Have had it now for four years.  All maintenance is carried out by a garage where they often work on classic cars. I just clean and polish.

During my time I have clocked-up some 16000 km.  Cost of maintenance to date is $2400 over four years.  This includes a one-of post-purchase inspection.,  but does not include the next basic service due this September.

Annual basic service cost me around $250.

Additional items were: relining rear brake shoes ;  adjust valve clearances;  worn gear shift bush;  replace brake master cylinder. That's all.

I live in TasTarga territory and the sheer driving pleasure I get from my little lightweight 924 on my weekly trip to the big smoke in Hobart  (two hours round trip), I just find difficult to describe.  Not exactly a muscle car, but so well balanced,  precise and forgiving. Have never driven another Porsche,  so I don't compare,  just enjoy the 924 for what it is. Damn thing really grows on you.    So what does all this mean to me in terms of running and maintenance cost?   Huge value for money. 

Simon, if you would like to talk,  you can get me on 0427 951006.

Cheers/Svend

 

Hello Svend,

Well this story tipifies the dream.  Finding & buying a cared for & loved classic, finding it a pleasure & a joy to drive & not spending the Earth to make it happen.  Congrats Svend, well done.

[sim84]

3 hours ago, Pintail said:

Annual basic service cost me around $250.

If I could spend ~$20K on the car including any necessary work to get it to a stage where I was only spending $250 a year on maintenance, I'd be happy with that. Is that realistic? What did you pay for yours, Svend, if you don't mind me asking?

bear924 - The Boxster doesn't appeal to me in the way a 924/944 does. The 80s vibe is what does it for me, and, being born in 1984, it's a bit of a dream to get a birth year Porsche. Also, I'd rather get something with a back seat. Otherwise I'd probably prefer a BMW Z3 over a Boxster, as they are less money and I like the look better.

This is the one that caught my eye:

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-944-1984/SSE-AD-5535447/?Cr=5

I'd much prefer a manual, but the silver and black is so sexy.

[Troubleshooter]

Good luck with the hunt Sim and you may be lucky. I had an 84 944 and paid 6k for it 2013. Good cond (horribly cracked dash!) all original with good books and 172ks. Drove it quite often  for the 2 1/2 years I owned it, and the first 2 years spent $600 on a service in the first year and that was that. All good! Then in the last 6 months after that I had to spend around $4500 to $5000 in total for repairs on it (including another service) with all sorts of shitty failures to keep it running. All work done by my local guy. Put about 15ks on it in that time and sold it for $10k. 2 cents worth. 

[SteveF]

Sim, if you really want an '84 what about this one...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1984-Porsche-944-5sp-manual/302658042511?hash=item4677d33a8f:g:IQAAAOSwI39amv6m

Referring to your last post I would recommend a manual over an auto. If you haven't already done so I would recommend driving some to get a feel for the cars and you will be able to identify a good one vs a not so good one. Where are you based?

Also, this recent thread may be of interest to you...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1984-Porsche-944-5sp-manual/302658042511?hash=item4677d33a8f:g:IQAAAOSwI39amv6m

[sim84]

1 hour ago, SteveF said:

Where are you based?

Sydney, Newtown area. Do you know a dealer in Sydney that has used Porsches I can try?

[sim84]

2 hours ago, SteveF said:

if you really want an '84 what about this one..

It'd be a nice touch, but it doesn't have to be an 84. If a car from a different year turns out to be a better buy I'd go with that. I was reading about the 944 and saw there were a few revisions over the years. Is there a particular revision that I'd be better off with, all other things being equal?

[brian in buddina]

At the 86.5 MY these models come with the oval dash, better air flow through the vents and air con!

Get out and find some 924/944's for a test drive. Or maybe, a local to you, PFA member will show you theirs. 

Clarks garage web site has a vast store of knowledge relating to the 944. They also have a checklist on what to look for when reviewing a potential purchase.  

Good luck in your search.

[TINGY]

7 hours ago, sim84 said:

Sydney, Newtown area. Do you know a dealer in Sydney that has used Porsches I can try?

If you ask nicely someone on here will take you for a drive and maybe throw you the keys

1 hour ago, brian in buddina said:

At the 86.5 MY these models come with the oval dash

MY 85.5 come with the oval dash and also first year of the turbo.

[Pintail]

 

12 hours ago, sim84 said:

If I could spend ~$20K on the car including any necessary work to get it to a stage where I was only spending $250 a year on maintenance, I'd be happy with that. Is that realistic? What did you pay for yours, Svend, if you don't mind me asking?

Simon,   paid the Healey Factory $8.5K. in 2014.

[Dreamr]

4 hours ago, Pintail said:

 

Simon,   paid the Healey Factory $8.5K. in 2014.

And we all wish it was still 2014 and we could buy more at that price ... ?

[TINGY]

When you say revisions @sim84

 there is really only the first series square dash, then 85.5 changed to the round dash with some other features added in. A 2.7 ltr twin cam was added then the 3ltr S2 was added with some extra features as well, mainly suspension and brakes to go with the 155kw engine which is no slouch, also the front end got the turbo look.

The turbo also got an upgrade in '88 in power, brakes etc.

If i was to pick one as a daily it would be the S2, or mod a series 1 turbo to get the power down a bit lower.

[Buchanan Automotive]

The first twin cam was the 2.5 Tingy, there was a 2.7 but it was a single cam engine. utilised a 104 bore from the 3.0ltr engine but with a 2.5 crank. People source these to do a 3.0ltr single cam turbo conversion. 

Regards

Sean

[TINGY]

So that was the 944S then with the 2.5 twin cam?