Raven Posted 8October, 2018 Report Share Posted 8October, 2018 I agree Jeff the ford vs holden thing just bores me too ,,,,as Lee said about the GT racing with all the Top European brands is more interesting to watch ......I honestly hope they do get more manufacturer involved ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 8October, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 8October, 2018 Especially as Betty used the Merc's with no help from the factory. Shame, as I enjoyed seeing them on the grid. Sounded great too Running turbo cars like the GTR OR Supra is just going to be a JDM race series (Japanese Domestic Market for those who don't know. Drifters love that shit) How boring! Aussie race fans want V8's, that's it, and as Red Bull have already been testing the V6 twin turbo, the writing is on the wall with that series I think. GT is a much better series to watch in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted 8October, 2018 Report Share Posted 8October, 2018 I much prefer the GT Series also ,,,proper factory sports cars from all Marque makes great racing ... Interesting thing about Redbull and it getting the Factory sponsorship from Holden ,,this decision by Holden really got Ryan Walkinshaw ticked off as he owns the Holden race team and Holden ignored him and went straight to Redbull based on their race victories over HRT ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC9911 Posted 8October, 2018 Report Share Posted 8October, 2018 They need to move on from the Holden - Ford thing, neither are made here anymore, there is no local content. The whole thing is irrelevant as the Ford - Holden scenario was based on cars that the average punter could buy in the showroom, how many working “average” punters can afford a Camarro or Mustang? There was a mass appeal which is no longer relevant, I’m not sure the fan base has caught up yet with reality. Maybe there should be two distinct categories/series, one based on cars you can actually buy from the showrooms with classes as per the early bathurst 500 & one based on the 24hr GT series (IMHO of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted 8October, 2018 Report Share Posted 8October, 2018 I’m just an armchair racer and don’t understand the financials of the category at all, but I’m increasingly unsure why they want to have their own bespoke platform for “Supercars” when so many manufacturers have GT3 and GT4 cars raced around the world? Surely switching to these as the basis of the series would deliver a nice mixed grid with a lot more interest from teams and manufacturers around the world? Who is interested in spending a fortune on developing a car that can only be raced in one very small market? Basically I suppose I’m suggesting killing Supercars and promoting an expanded version of Australian GT as the #1 category in the country. Maybe there’s too much invested in the way it’s setup today for that to happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstone Posted 8October, 2018 Report Share Posted 8October, 2018 I'm sure it will be a difficult transition for the die hards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 8October, 2018 Report Share Posted 8October, 2018 23 minutes ago, GC9911 said: They need to move on from the Holden - Ford thing, neither are made here anymore, there is no local content. The whole thing is irrelevant as the Ford - Holden scenario was based on cars that the average punter could buy in the showroom, how many working “average” punters can afford a Camarro or Mustang? There was a mass appeal which is no longer relevant, I’m not sure the fan base has caught up yet with reality. Maybe there should be two distinct categories/series, one based on cars you can actually buy from the showrooms with classes as per the early bathurst 500 & one based on the 24hr GT series (IMHO of course). I always wondered how Red Bull could afford to sponsor the top teams in every extreme sport around the world. Surely they don't sell that many cans of lolly water. I was interested to learn that they are the biggest manufacturer of the Holden supercar panels (I think there are only a couple of places that make them). So obviously a lot of income is generated through developing and selling parts and equipment to other teams in each sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 8October, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 8October, 2018 Pretty sure Roland Dane (Red Bull boss) said they supply ALL the Supercar teams bodywork @MFX Think they also supply engines to some teams. The ball is firmly in their court that's for sure 33 minutes ago, GC9911 said: There was a mass appeal which is no longer relevant, I’m not sure the fan base has caught up yet with reality Oh they know alright. Have a look at Supercars Facebook page (or don't, as you'll want to stab yourself in the eyes with a fork) and just about every 5th post is either whinging about the cars/future or the pay tv deal. 'Bring back free to air' is the normal cry. They've even created a page about stopping Murdoch from raping Australian motorsport for his personal financial gain ?? It never ends. I'm with @JWM in that GT should be the future of Australian motorsport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted 8October, 2018 Report Share Posted 8October, 2018 V8 supercars is big business ,,,All of the components for the cars are provided by parties involved in the series ,,,,the sponsors pay big dollars to have the brand on prime time TV ,,,,the Manufacturers only provide funds as the cars used in the series only have around a dozen small cosmetic parts from the production car on them .. Realistically this is a one make series as just about all of the major parts on the Holden ,,Ford ,,,and Nissan are shared ..eg chassis ,gearbox ,brakes , wheel , tires , same suspension set ups and aero packages designed for the 3 brands to have equal downforce and parody .. only the Engines and the panels are different .. The Engines are all proper racing engines and have nothing in common with the production engine other than being a V8 . The panels are custom made from thin gauge steel and made in such a way as to be replaced quickly and cost very little and meet the series requirements .. The Teams provide what the fans want and the fans pay ,,,the Australian public are in love with the Mystic idea that the family V8 falcon or Holden is someway linked to the race car .. This sounds silly to think some one could be that naive ,,,but the proof is in the money the teams generate ... Just look at the amount of V8 super car crap people buy in support of the teams and brand they follow ...The Merch alone is worth Millions each year ,,let alone the sponsors Dollars and the income generated when a team has a win ... 2 hours ago, MFX said: I always wondered how Red Bull could afford to sponsor the top teams in every extreme sport around the world. Surely they don't sell that many cans of lolly water. I was interested to learn that they are the biggest manufacturer of the Holden supercar panels (I think there are only a couple of places that make them). So obviously a lot of income is generated through developing and selling parts and equipment to other teams in each sport. In 2017 Redbull made $7.4 billion ,,,they are very good at placing there product with popular sporting events and being involved with popular culture ..........smart marketing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted 8October, 2018 Report Share Posted 8October, 2018 20 minutes ago, Raven said: V8 supercars is big business ,,,All of the components for the cars are provided by parties involved in the series ,,,,the sponsors pay big dollars to have the brand on prime time TV So I guess where I reality differs to the outlook of a naive car enthusiast (i.e. me! ?) is that the manufacturers aren't that invested in it versus all the other sponsors. The current setup makes more sense when you think of it in this way. Hard to argue in some ways, has delivered close racing and they've done well to cultivate the promotion of drivers to create interest at that level. As you say though, a lot still hangs of the mystique of Commodore v Falcon, however far fetched (always surprised me how many people didn't realise the reality!) and needs replacing with something... I suppose the question is whether the team and driver 'brands' are strong enough to keep people interested when the cars change under that... I still want GT4/3 racing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9fan Posted 10October, 2018 Report Share Posted 10October, 2018 On 10/7/2018 at 10:35 PM, Raven said: I also feel for him ............but he shall have many years of racing ahead to make up for it ...Lowndes and Richo are getting to the ends of their career ,s and it is nice to see them finish on a High .. I think Steve drives like his Dad so he has a long way to go in his career ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 10October, 2018 Report Share Posted 10October, 2018 Bring back group A or B The old Bathurst 12 hours that had 968 vs rx7 vs M5 were entertaining. Why not that class? Holden is making itself irrelevant quickly and will probably go the way of Pontiac in the next ten years. Once you are 100% badge engineered what is the point anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 10October, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 10October, 2018 1 hour ago, Coastr said: Holden is making itself irrelevant quickly and will probably go the way of Pontiac in the next ten years. Once you are 100% badge engineered what is the point anymore? Brand loyalty and marketing. One of Holdens execs told me last year it will probably always remain badged as a Holden, as the domino effect is merchandising with the loyal fans who own a 'Holden'. They know and we all know what it really is, but it looks good to see the Holden Lion on a jacket or coffee mug. Dare say most owners/enthusiasts wouldn't want to be seen wearing a Pontiac jacket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 11October, 2018 Report Share Posted 11October, 2018 Pontiac owners had all that stuff, didn't matter in the end. it might hang around - at the bottom of the sales table. They have no class leaders pro differentiated product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFX Posted 11October, 2018 Report Share Posted 11October, 2018 6 hours ago, LeeM said: Brand loyalty and marketing. One of Holdens execs told me last year it will probably always remain badged as a Holden, as the domino effect is merchandising with the loyal fans who own a 'Holden'. They know and we all know what it really is, but it looks good to see the Holden Lion on a jacket or coffee mug. Dare say most owners/enthusiasts wouldn't want to be seen wearing a Pontiac jacket The issue I see for Holden though, is that they don't have anything that stands out in any sector of the market. Ford is doing great things with a range of hot hatches (not sure for how much longer), Mustang (like it or not) through to the Ranger. What does Holden have? Nothing for the enthusiasts to lust after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted 11October, 2018 Report Share Posted 11October, 2018 The Holden marketing strategist have really left them selves short in regards to a market competitor to the Mustang ... The Pony car is selling well and was a smart move by Ford ,,demand has been very High ... Like you said Jeff Holden has nothing ,,,,even when the new HSV ZB lands here with its quoted 450 HP twin turbo V6 ,,,I dont think it will be any threat to Mustang sales ,,,Holden needs a V8 coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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