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Bardman

Oak Green GT3 Touring - I Want to Swap for 991.1 GTS!

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Ok, so this is a bit left field, and a bit of a long story so bear with me here.

So i had a GT4 as a daily driver which I absolutely loved, but when the 991.2 GT3 was announced with a manual, I decided that I must have one.  So I duly put my deposit down and had one specced, until I saw the rennlist discussions about a possible Touring edition - and I was like, this is my perfect car!  Particularly if it has back seats, so we can all (at the time we had one child) go for a drive in it on occasion.  Awesome.  Of course I was pretty disappointed when it was announced and it had no back seat option, but it still looked pretty close to my dream car, so I stuck with it. Not long after this we got pregnant with our second child.

I really struggled with what colour to order the car in, as all the off the rack colours just looked a bit plain.  So I pushed for a PTS colour.  With the silver trim and wheels I thought Brewster Green would look perfect, so initially had that on the build sheet.  After a while though, I started looking at lots and lots of pictures of Oak Green.  A photo of an Oak Green (964 I believe?) in the Porsche Museum sealed the deal - I switched to Oak Green.  Then there was the wait.  Will I or wont I be granted PTS.  After some months of badgering, I got confirmation that the colour had been accepted.  Amazing!

On the GT4 I skipped on some of the fancy options as it just kept adding to the cost.  As the GT3 was the dream car - I specced it exactly as I wanted.  Options that I wanted, I included in the car - regardless of price.  I didnt go overboard and add lots of bling - I just wanted to have no regrets as I wanted to keep the car for a long time.

After all the options were selected and the paint was locked in, I had the long, long wait.  Many months passed with no news.  Then suddenly in June/July? I got the phone call.  The car has been built!  It was super exciting, but there was a bit of a "but".  Our second child was born and life was just a bit different now.  With one child we could alternate "adult" time.  With two children, adult time has shrunken into small pockets of time seized when you can get them.  Another thing I noticed also, driving my GT4 was starting to give me a bit of a sore back. 

So, some 5-6 weeks ago now, I got the call that my car had arrived.  Feeling a little less sure that this was in fact my dream car, but not yet willing to concede after that multi-year journey (I need to check the deposit slip, but I believe I first put money down some time in 2016 for this car) from deposit to the car arriving, I went in and picked up the car.  And it looked amazing!  Better than I could have hoped for imagining what all the options together would look like.  It was just perfect.

The problem was, driving it caused my back to be sore - kind of what I was anticipating after my more recent driving in the GT4.  And my life is just different now.  I dont really have much time to just go for drives for fun.  Particularly as I cant bring anyone with me.  Whenever we go anywhere - we take the family car.

I'm bitterly disappointed, I still want a nice drivers car - with both NA and a manual - but it also needs to fit my partner and our 2 young kids, and it needs to have less stiff suspension so it doesnt hurt my back.  So after plenty of reading and a quite rewarding test drive, I come to the conclusion that a manual 991.1 GTS is the car I need.  The problem is, there aren't many manuals around.

So - I'm thinking, maybe there is a manual 991.1 GTS owner who really wanted to get a Touring, but wasn't able to secure one.  And because they couldn't secure one, they have kept their car.  Maybe they would want to swap their car for my car!?!?!

Of course it wouldn't be a straight swap.  My car has less than 300kms on it (for the reasons stated above).  Its also a PTS Oak Green Touring - a pretty special and unique car.  So I would be looking to pay market for your car and sell mine to you for market.

So if you (or someone you know) has a really clean, well optioned, low kms, manual (this is a must - I do not want a PDK car), 991.1 GTS and you want to "swap" it for my Touring then please let me know.  We can maybe work something out!

 

Being honest, every time I walk past the car, I really dont want to let it go, so if someone has some realistic suggestions on how I could soften the suspension to help with my back I would welcome that input also.  My concern is that I dont want to "ruin" the car, by tinkering and upsetting the balance that Porsche spent a lot of time honing with a fleet of engineers and test drivers.  But if someone has experience with changing the spring rates or some other options that they feel would not "ruin" the car I am all ears.  It doesn't need to be limousine soft - the test drive I had in the 991.1 GTS was fine, so as soft as that would be no problem.  If driving it didn't hurt my back, I'm sure I could find pockets of time when I could go for a drive.  ?

Any input welcome!

 

 

 

 

 

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Pics please! Sounds like a beautiful spec.

I can appreciate how difficult the transition is from 1 to 2 kids. I bought a race car the month before our 2nd came, consequently I’ve driven it twice in 7 months. However, if I had a touring in the shed I’d simply be divorced by now ?

What seats did you option? Not up to date on 991 options but is there a way you could fit the 18 way sports seats? I’d imagine these would be a lot more comfortable than the 918 buckets. Also I believe you can convert to 4 seat, at least you could with 997. Everything for a price though.

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Interesting dilemma! We've had a similar problem with three young children so a Porsche sports car is not an ideal family car so personally I was looking at an M3 or something more practical.

However, then I started thinking how often do we use the second car/my car to shuttle kids. Maybe a few times per year and if then only one or two children. 

How I solved it was having a sporty and comfortable daily which both my wife and I could easily drive but then also offer a bit of enjoyment for myself after dropping the kids off at sport or where ever. So we opted for a sports wagon, lots to choose from such as RS4, RS6, Panamera, 330 msport, C63 touring etc. 

So what I am getting at maybe you need to focus more on your what your daily is and keep your weekend car just for your self or that special outing with your wife. I mean how often will you use it for shuttling kids, let a lone infants?

I can also relate to the sore back, it has really been starting to hound me in my relatively older age and sedentary life style.

You didn't mention the seats that were optioned but as mentioned above I think the 18 way seats will help here. I'm assuming you have the buckets.

I test drove the 991.2 GTS on a drive day and it is definitely comfortable. I haven't driven a GT3 but I would think the GTS will be a let down in comparison and no where near your dream car. The GTS' are rarely optioned with RAS let alone manual so it is never going to drive like your GT3 let alone not having the GT3 engine. 

So maybe you should be looking for a GT3 with the 18 way seats. Though I think it will always be a harsher ride than the GTS, after all it is really a track car. 

Also have you thought of retrofitting the rear seats if it is a must? 

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Flowing in from what @donR has said, also bear in mind that if you want to do some twisty roads your kids might not last very long in the back of any 911. My son has gone green every time I’ve done it with him. That said, it is nice to have the option to pack the whole family in if needed, but if you had something like an M3 (especially the V8 E92 which are now pretty reasonably priced, and probably close to what you’d lose in dollars by changing cars) that would be a pretty good substitute and more comfortable for all!

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Having regard to the hit you will take on the change over.  You would be best to keep the GT3 and buy a 3rd car for the kids commute.  Mazda CX5 (or smaller CX3) would be the go and the cost would be less than the change over.  Keep the dream.  GT3 Touring to a GTS you will regret this move in the end.

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4 hours ago, D2000 said:

Flowing in from what @donR has said, also bear in mind that if you want to do some twisty roads your kids might not last very long in the back of any 911. My son has gone green every time I’ve done it with him. That said, it is nice to have the option to pack the whole family in if needed, but if you had something like an M3 (especially the V8 E92 which are now pretty reasonably priced, and probably close to what you’d lose in dollars by changing cars) that would be a pretty good substitute and more comfortable for all!

Each child is different, mine loves being in the back of the 928, for the noise and speed :)

 

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I'd normally be the guy that tells you to keep the GT3.

But when you can't share it, and responsibility calls, that kind of becomes old, I get that! Life is short, too short for the car to sit and wait for 'that rare moment' that you can enjoy it by yourself, and as far as I am concerned there is no point compromising the cars sole purpose to be something it is not. 

Getting a nice family bus will only lure you away from it even more :lol: trust me on that one... 

If you've done the seat time and decided the 991.1 GTS is for you and your current life circumstances, go for it... potentially you could approach your dealer with your situation and come to an arrangement that works for both of you, I am sure they'd love the opportunity to make a margin on the same car twice, and probably satisfy some poor sole who didn't get an allocation whilst they are at it! 

 

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10 hours ago, spiller said:

Pics please! Sounds like a beautiful spec.

I can appreciate how difficult the transition is from 1 to 2 kids. I bought a race car the month before our 2nd came, consequently I’ve driven it twice in 7 months. However, if I had a touring in the shed I’d simply be divorced by now ?

What seats did you option? Not up to date on 991 options but is there a way you could fit the 18 way sports seats? I’d imagine these would be a lot more comfortable than the 918 buckets. Also I believe you can convert to 4 seat, at least you could with 997. Everything for a price though.

It really is a lovely car.  I dont have any great photos, but will look to grab some.

I went the 18 ways already - I have had bucket seats on a previous car and I find them a pain to get into and out of.  So no go there in terms of softening the ride.  

With regards to fitting the rear seats, I'm pretty confident it cant be done in the 991 GT3, but will ask the dealer for confirmation.  Interestingly, it seems you can with the 911T - but I think it shares the body in white with the base carrera whereas the GT3 has a unique body.

9 hours ago, D2000 said:

Flowing in from what @donR has said, also bear in mind that if you want to do some twisty roads your kids might not last very long in the back of any 911. My son has gone green every time I’ve done it with him. That said, it is nice to have the option to pack the whole family in if needed, but if you had something like an M3 (especially the V8 E92 which are now pretty reasonably priced, and probably close to what you’d lose in dollars by changing cars) that would be a pretty good substitute and more comfortable for all!

The E92 was the other car I was thinking about.  I do miss driving a V8...  The only issue here is that late model E92s with a manual transmission are about as rare as manual 991.1 GTSs.  It seems a lot of people like to have autos... :(

With regards to twisty roads - I'm really not expecting to take the kids on too many of these, but when I am driving with them, I want to be in a car I enjoy, even on a straight road, not just hauling them in a people mover because its practical.  The original sales proposition of the 911 was that it was a sports car that had back seats after all.

8 hours ago, tazzieman said:

Can you strengthen your back? You're going to need it for a few years yet.

I had thought about this.  Life is quite hectic at the moment, but I will have a look at what my options are here.

 

6 hours ago, StevepGT3 said:

Road tyres and a DSC Box

 

8 hours ago, tazzieman said:

Can you strengthen your back? You're going to need it for a few years yet.

I had thought about this.  Life is quite hectic at the moment, but I will have a look at what my options are here.

6 hours ago, StevepGT3 said:

Road tyres and a DSC Box

Had also considered this.  Do you have any experience with either?

I emailed the DSC guys some time ago asking whether they could do a "street tune" for me and never got a response.  I will perhaps try again.

Would street tyres make much of a difference you think?

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5 hours ago, edgy said:

I'd normally be the guy that tells you to keep the GT3.

But when you can't share it, and responsibility calls, that kind of becomes old, I get that! Life is short, too short for the car to sit and wait for 'that rare moment' that you can enjoy it by yourself, and as far as I am concerned there is no point compromising the cars sole purpose to be something it is not. 

Getting a nice family bus will only lure you away from it even more :lol: trust me on that one... 

If you've done the seat time and decided the 991.1 GTS is for you and your current life circumstances, go for it... potentially you could approach your dealer with your situation and come to an arrangement that works for both of you, I am sure they'd love the opportunity to make a margin on the same car twice, and probably satisfy some poor sole who didn't get an allocation whilst they are at it! 

 

Food for thought here - you dont happen to know someone who has a GTS they want to part with?  :)

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21 minutes ago, Bardman said:

With regards to fitting the rear seats, I'm pretty confident it cant be done in the 991 GT3, but will ask the dealer for confirmation.  Interestingly, it seems you can with the 911T - but I think it shares the body in white with the base carrera whereas the GT3 has a unique body.

I think you're right, it's been discussed on rennlist quite a bit with consensus that you would have compliance/insurance issues adding seats to the 991 GT3 as the mounting points differ from the base shell apparently... however I note that on my rego papers my touring already says its a four seater?!...

p.s. I may know someone interested. They were wanting my allocation. I'll make a call.

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5 minutes ago, itsujack said:

I think you're right, it's been discussed on rennlist quite a bit with consensus that you would have compliance/insurance issues adding seats to the 991 GT3 as the mounting points differ from the base shell apparently... however I note that on my rego papers my touring already says its a four seater?!...

p.s. I may know someone interested. They were wanting my allocation. I'll make a call.

Appreciate it - thank you.

BTW - for those that were looking for a picture, here is an ok one I took.  It doesn't really do it justice, but its the best I've got at the moment.

ufID6Kv.jpg

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On 22/10/2018 at 21:36, Bardman said:

Appreciate it - thank you.

BTW - for those that were looking for a picture, here is an ok one I took.  It doesn't really do it justice, but its the best I've got at the moment.

 

Great colour !

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47 minutes ago, Bardman said:

Food for thought here - you dont happen to know someone who has a GTS they want to part with?  :)

Unfortunately I don’t know anyone with a GTS at the moment, I think Greg ( @GC9911 ) had a 991.1 briefly, they’re pretty thin on the ground! 

I have the DSC sport module in my 997 GT3, whilst it certainly improved the road manners, I found that it gave me more benefit for driving the car at its limit.

Tom Chan is the guy to talk to there, he could probably program a unit for your desired outcome, I’ve no doubt about that, and they are straight plug in for the 7.2 and newer, it’s not a bad suggestion, just not sure how significant of a change you’d see without changing the spring rates? 

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2 hours ago, Bardman said:

It really is a lovely car.  I dont have any great photos, but will look to grab some.

I went the 18 ways already - I have had bucket seats on a previous car and I find them a pain to get into and out of.  So no go there in terms of softening the ride.  

With regards to fitting the rear seats, I'm pretty confident it cant be done in the 991 GT3, but will ask the dealer for confirmation.  Interestingly, it seems you can with the 911T - but I think it shares the body in white with the base carrera whereas the GT3 has a unique body.

The E92 was the other car I was thinking about.  I do miss driving a V8...  The only issue here is that late model E92s with a manual transmission are about as rare as manual 991.1 GTSs.  It seems a lot of people like to have autos... :(

With regards to twisty roads - I'm really not expecting to take the kids on too many of these, but when I am driving with them, I want to be in a car I enjoy, even on a straight road, not just hauling them in a people mover because its practical.  The original sales proposition of the 911 was that it was a sports car that had back seats after all.

I had thought about this.  Life is quite hectic at the moment, but I will have a look at what my options are here.

 

 

I had thought about this.  Life is quite hectic at the moment, but I will have a look at what my options are here.

Had also considered this.  Do you have any experience with either?

I emailed the DSC guys some time ago asking whether they could do a "street tune" for me and never got a response.  I will perhaps try again.

Would street tyres make much of a difference you think?

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1 hour ago, Bardman said:

It really is a lovely car.  I dont have any great photos, but will look to grab some.

I went the 18 ways already - I have had bucket seats on a previous car and I find them a pain to get into and out of.  So no go there in terms of softening the ride.  

With regards to fitting the rear seats, I'm pretty confident it cant be done in the 991 GT3, but will ask the dealer for confirmation.  Interestingly, it seems you can with the 911T - but I think it shares the body in white with the base carrera whereas the GT3 has a unique body.

The E92 was the other car I was thinking about.  I do miss driving a V8...  The only issue here is that late model E92s with a manual transmission are about as rare as manual 991.1 GTSs.  It seems a lot of people like to have autos... :(

With regards to twisty roads - I'm really not expecting to take the kids on too many of these, but when I am driving with them, I want to be in a car I enjoy, even on a straight road, not just hauling them in a people mover because its practical.  The original sales proposition of the 911 was that it was a sports car that had back seats after all.

I had thought about this.  Life is quite hectic at the moment, but I will have a look at what my options are here.

 

 

I had thought about this.  Life is quite hectic at the moment, but I will have a look at what my options are here.

Had also considered this.  Do you have any experience with either?

I emailed the DSC guys some time ago asking whether they could do a "street tune" for me and never got a response.  I will perhaps try again.

Would street tyres make much of a difference you think?

Street tyres make a difference, had some on mine and it was noticeable compared to the cups, DSC also makes a big difference on the 7.2, but unsure how much diff it would make on yours 

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If your GTS swap scenario doesn't works out, let me know because I could be interested in taking it off your hands as I have been keeping a look out for a Touring on the Aussie market. I would snap up the black car (its almost a perfect config) that is currently on carsales, if it wasn't, well...black. I know that a lot of people are very passionate about Oak Green, but it's not one of my favourite colour...but at least its not black...so let me know.

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7 hours ago, WGA said:

If your GTS swap scenario doesn't works out, let me know because I could be interested in taking it off your hands as I have been keeping a look out for a Touring on the Aussie market. I would snap up the black car (its almost a perfect config) that is currently on carsales, if it wasn't, well...black. I know that a lot of people are very passionate about Oak Green, but it's not one of my favourite colour...but at least its not black...so let me know.

@WGA There is another PFA member who has a beautiful chalk grey Touring and he was selling it a few weeks ago.  Really nice car.  Unsure if it is now off the market (sold) but worth a look.  

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As a bloke with 4 kids (8, 5, 3, 7mths), so even less time than you, I say hell with it. You will regret selling the dream, unless it is financially motivated. Pick up something cheaper in the meantime to fill your other needs.

Do some strength work on your core for your back, like another poster said, you’re gonna need it for the next 40+ years by the sounds.

You know what is better than one 911? Two or more. A manual 997 Turbo could fit the bill nicely as a ‘family’ sports car. Kids can fit in the back up till about 10 or 11 depending on size.

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18 hours ago, WGA said:

If your GTS swap scenario doesn't works out, let me know because I could be interested in taking it off your hands as I have been keeping a look out for a Touring on the Aussie market. I would snap up the black car (its almost a perfect config) that is currently on carsales, if it wasn't, well...black. I know that a lot of people are very passionate about Oak Green, but it's not one of my favourite colour...but at least its not black...so let me know.

Lol - you don't like Nirvana? ? (check the door sills if you haven't seen them).

Will let you know with regards to selling it outright - the likelihood of a swap is low, but thought it worth a chance.

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10 hours ago, Bardman said:

Lol - you don't like Nirvana? ? (check the door sills if you haven't seen them).

Will let you know with regards to selling it outright - the likelihood of a swap is low, but thought it worth a chance.

Yes, I saw the nirvana door sills and made mental note to immediately replace them if I bought it. Not to my taste at all.

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Hi Brad,

Sorry to hear you're considering parting with your beautiful Touring. What if you swap your tyres to PS4S, they have softer sidewall and should give you added cushioning, you can can sell your cup2's at near new price so there wont be much of a difference in pricing.

Cheers Jim

On 22/10/2018 at 15:16, StevepGT3 said:

Road tyres and a DSC Box

Yes this ^^^

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