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Jaffar

A over ripe banana

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Hello all.

I have recently purchased a 1982 944 in a bit of a sorry state. It looks ok in the photo if you like the colour (which I do) but its quite rough close up. It came from Hong Kong many years ago and has been laid up since 2004. A few of the bits and pieces have been pilfered and there have been a few attempts at repairs. There are also some dubious mods like the running boards. Apart from the bottom of the front fenders and around the hatch locks it looks rust free.

There are a million things to be done to get it back on the road. It is an auto and I would like to swap it to a manual and to that end I have obtained a parts car which generated a gearbox and a few more bits and pieces more of which will come up later.

The motor is a non runner but that is, I think, due to electronics as someone has had much of the wiring apart. More on that later.

I am a bit shy of starting this thread as I see so many projects start and never finish but there are so many questions to ask. I have a Lotus Elan in the works for 25 years and only just got it on the road. It was a burn out and in far worse condition than the banana.

One of the things that I have noticed is what appears to be there is a larger gap between the rear wheel and fender between one side and the other. The amount is about 5mm. I have checked the wheel width, offset, spacers, and hubs and all are equal from side to side. Could the suspension be incorrectly set from side to side? I just had a thought that maybe the camber may be different from side to side. Is this possible?

Also is there a way of extracting the seats from the parts car I have purchased as the runners are rusted solid?

Cheers.

20181003_164939.jpg

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Yikes is buying a clean running manual 944 a better option?

For the suspension issue check and measure all the bits that hold up the car and compare from one side to the other.  You’ll find something that doesn’t match.

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The discrepancy might be rectified by adjusting the ride height. It's possible to do so by about 15-20mm on each side independently by loosening, adjusting and then tightening the trailing blades.

An auto to manual swap is ambitious and likely not worth the $$$. Everything in the drivetrain from the engine back is different. I'd just clean it up and enjoy as is.

There's also a lot of extra fibreglass on that car. I personally don't mind it. Someone has tried to make it look like a 944 at some stage. Any chance of pix front on?

 

 

As for seats, soak in penetrating oil, and try again later.

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21 minutes ago, XLR8 said:

Someone has tried to make it look like a 944 at some stage.

I think that was done by the factory ... it is a 944 ... :Chuckle2:

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18 hours ago, Jaffar said:

One of the things that I have noticed is what appears to be there is a larger gap between the rear wheel and fender between one side and the other. The amount is about 5mm. I have checked the wheel width, offset, spacers, and hubs and all are equal from side to side. Could the suspension be incorrectly set from side to side? I just had a thought that maybe the camber may be different from side to side. Is this possible?

 

Maybe the added flares are not mounted the same left & right. Take your measurements from original panels first.

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Thanks for the replies.

Banana is a very early 944, chassis no 2795. The are no non standard panels apart from the running boards and a European diffuser.

I could have purchased a manual 944 but that would be too boring. This is a project. I did not want to buy a runner and then make it into a non runner along the way if it all got too much.

Re the gearbox installation, the parts car yielded all of the manual bits in about 4 hours work and was surprisingly easy.  Nice to have a car that has been sitting in a field for a long period of time and find no seized bolts. The extraction of the auto will no doubt take a bit longer but should be a bit tidier as I had the bottom cleaned before I picked it up.  The manual in will be longer again but the motor is coming out at the same time.

The new trans is a 016/Z so all the bits are far lighter and more manageable. It also appears to have a few more bits and pieces available for it.

Thanks for the replies re the suspension. The ride height all round seems high but I did not look to see whether it was the same side to side. Will pull the wheels off and measure accordingly.

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14 hours ago, Dreamr said:

I think that was done by the factory ... it is a 944 ... :Chuckle2:

Ooops. My bad!

11 hours ago, Jaffar said:

Re the gearbox installation, the parts car yielded all of the manual bits in about 4 hours work and was surprisingly easy.  Nice to have a car that has been sitting in a field for a long period of time and find no seized bolts. The extraction of the auto will no doubt take a bit longer but should be a bit tidier as I had the bottom cleaned before I picked it up.  The manual in will be longer again but the motor is coming out at the same time.

Fair enough. I'd wager on quite a few extra hours to put the new trans in (and the pedal box, and clutch, and hydraulics, and wiring etc), but if I was in your shoes, that's what I'd be doing!

Do you plan to remove the running boards? Soooo very early 80s!

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On 10/22/2018 at 11:40 PM, Jaffar said:

One of the things that I have noticed is what appears to be there is a larger gap between the rear wheel and fender between one side and the other. The amount is about 5mm. I have checked the wheel width, offset, spacers, and hubs and all are equal from side to side. Could the suspension be incorrectly set from side to side? I just had a thought that maybe the camber may be different from side to side. Is this possible?

The difference in clearance side to side rear apparently not uncommon - I experienced it with my 968 and my '90 Turbo - and it annoyed me greatly!  There is some slotting on the pass. side (I think) of the torque tube mount, which may provide some adjustment.  But @Buchanan Automotiveshould be able to provide some learned insight.  Sounds like a challenging project, but as Bruce B said re swap projects, it's very good to have a donor car handy, so you're off to a good start there.  It's be nice if you could document the process with pics it would be of interest to many of us...?

 

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17 hours ago, XLR8 said:

Measured the wheel arches to various suspension and body parts and all is symmetric. Looks like it is the suspension/running gear which may make the offset easier to deal with.

I don't think I will be re installing the running boards unless I need to escape the police while firing a machine gun however banana has another 2 pieces of 80's memorabilia which I was contemplating getting rid of and replacing with Porsche seats but hey they are there, they just need to be re upholstered and they are comfy albeit I would say a bit heavier than the Porsche seats.

It looks like they once used to be white but someone gave them a coat of black. I would have thought the white would go better with the shoulder pads.

20181011_180052.jpg.81bf3ed296d4b87a379ade7913c2d581.jpg 

 

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 Those seats are awesome! Stratos brand maybe? 

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They look like fancy recaros but might be copies / competitors.

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Can anyone explain how to remove the steering column. I notice there are a couple of sheer bolts which I do not want to disturb but I would like to replace the steering lock and get into that area to remove the pedal box. Is that possible?

Also decided to ditch the Recaro C-Classics and going back to a set of standard early 944 seats modified to incorporate the sports seat bolsters and longer seat like this:

 

592021140_390002(1).jpg.a380233cc3bb37a03b496c46754cfcf3.jpg

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Those Recaro classics are a hoot! Especially the ones with the gradient.

Not elegant like original Porsche ones but they must be hard to come by at this point. Looks like a TV remote built into the side 

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Someone will give you good money for the old recaros, no doubt.

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Moving on, the major part of this venture will be the insertion of one of these under the bonnet.

It is an Audi 3.2ltr FSI from a 2008 A5. It generates 198kw and 300 odd nm. The weight is about 50kg lighter, about 60% of the length and 20mm smaller in width than the distance between the shock towers. The height I think from a whole lot of measuring is just short enough to fit under the bonnet as it will sit so far back. I bought it for very cheap with most of the ancillaries attached and it has 47,000 klm.

The major problems with using one of these are the alteration to the sump due to the crossmember being in the way, they are a DI motor and there will need to be a bit of an alteration to the firewall to enable easy access to the VVT covers without pulling the engine. It is in a way a bit simpler than the 2.5ltr and I should have a neater, cleaner engine compartment.

I have been reluctant to discuss this as I note that most engine swaps in these cars tend to fail apart from the Chev mods in the US. Most of these projects appear to fail from lack of long term motivation and not doing the early homework. I did a lot of work on this before I purchased both the banana and the motor. The interesting thing is the buying of the 924 with the 016/Z gearbox makes the job somewhat easier as I can use the auto drive shaft by having it shortened and re splined in order to get the correct set back in the engine compartment. This also gives a larger drive shaft and bearings than the 924 set up.

I will use the 924 bell housing with a concentric throw out bearing and just need to have a adapter plate and a flywheel made. There are further issues like engine mounts to think of but It looks like I will be able to revert to a configuration somewhat like that in the 924 and have the mounts on the front chassis rails rather than on the cross member. I can then use the Audi engine mount set up, heat shields and all.

The process starts this weekend with moving everything to a place where I have room to move and make a mess.

 

Audi%20OEM%20A4%20B8%20Engine%20Motor%20V6%203.2L%20FSI%20Engine%20ID%20CALA%2006E100031F%20A5%202008%202009%2020101.jpg

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Nice swap, should be a hoot to drive when it's done.

There's a guy in the US on the FB group 'Porsche 944 Outlaws' who's doing a similar swap with a 4.2 v8.

Looks like he had to clearance the strut tower bracing a little, and also modify the firewall.

31166631_2425752580783724_75755489110880

 

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This looks like a very interesting swap. Definately keep us posted on the banana.

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Cool project,

After my engine mishap, I thought about doing a 3.6L Cayenne (VW VR6 lump) swap, but decided to rebuild

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1 hour ago, 944s2cab said:

I thought about doing a 3.6L Cayenne (VW VR6 lump) swap, but decided to rebuild

Isn't a VR6 too tall? It would be nice to have Porsche script on the head.

On 09/11/2018 at 13:53, Timm said:

There's a guy in the US on the FB group 'Porsche 944 Outlaws' who's doing a similar swap with a 4.2 v8.

Where does the brake booster go? Imagine the exhaust routing?

On 09/11/2018 at 01:11, Jaffar said:

Moving on, the major part of this venture will be the insertion of one of these under the bonnet.

It is an Audi 3.2ltr FSI from a 2008 A5. It generates 198kw and 300 odd nm. The weight is about 50kg lighter, about 60% of the length and 20mm smaller in width than the distance between the shock towers. The height I think from a whole lot of measuring is just short enough to fit under the bonnet as it will sit so far back. I bought it for very cheap with most of the ancillaries attached and it has 47,000 klm.

The major problems with using one of these are the alteration to the sump due to the crossmember being in the way, they are a DI motor and there will need to be a bit of an alteration to the firewall to enable easy access to the VVT covers without pulling the engine. It is in a way a bit simpler than the 2.5ltr and I should have a neater, cleaner engine compartment.

I have been reluctant to discuss this as I note that most engine swaps in these cars tend to fail apart from the Chev mods in the US. Most of these projects appear to fail from lack of long term motivation and not doing the early homework. I did a lot of work on this before I purchased both the banana and the motor. The interesting thing is the buying of the 924 with the 016/Z gearbox makes the job somewhat easier as I can use the auto drive shaft by having it shortened and re splined in order to get the correct set back in the engine compartment. This also gives a larger drive shaft and bearings than the 924 set up.

I will use the 924 bell housing with a concentric throw out bearing and just need to have a adapter plate and a flywheel made. There are further issues like engine mounts to think of but It looks like I will be able to revert to a configuration somewhat like that in the 924 and have the mounts on the front chassis rails rather than on the cross member. I can then use the Audi engine mount set up, heat shields and all.

The process starts this weekend with moving everything to a place where I have room to move and make a mess.

 

 

Being DI, makes sure you give the intake a good clean before you shoehorn that in there!

So, using the 016/z manual, and a shortened auto torque tube? Won't that bring the bell housing back towards the tunnel too much?

Engine mounts won't be easy, but I see that being less of an issue than the other bits.

I wonder if us lowly '24 owners could benefit from your experience .... is there a 4 pot that has a similar bolt pattern as this engine?

Great project! Watching keenly on this one.

 

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The VR6 is taller longer and wider than the 3.2 fsi. The big problem that arises is the sump which has to be redesigned to clear the crossmember hence the use of the shorter motor. If it were not for the height/sump issue I would not bother to mod the firewall to get it all to fit.

I will be using a tilton pedal box and moving all the master cylinders under the dash where there is heaps of room. It means I can also move the pedals a bit closer to the firewall which gets rid of a bit of the arms stretched steering wheel position. The booster will be remote. I will post a photo of the intended later.

Yes will be cleaning the intakes while it is easy to do. There is a you tube video on this for the 3.2 fsi and it is easier than cars like my BMW as you get at them quite easily.

I will be using the 016 torque tube but cutting down the auto drive shaft. This will mean putting new larger bearings in the 016 TT.

Not being wedded to the engine mounts on the cross frame will make this a bit easier. but I will have to fabricate brackets to hang off the 944 frame to fit the Audi hydraulic mounts.

I think the bolt pattern is similar on most of the VAG motors but each motor has it's own challenges. I liked this one because of how short it was and the oil pan issue was not such a big problem as others engines. It is also from the same group and the same unit is used in a Panamera (I think as the V6 tfsi) so feels ok as a swap motor.

 

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This is great.  Always return to this thread if you need motivation to keep going.

i love the irony of using an Audi engine when the 924 was panned for using an Audi engine back in the day.

i was thinking the other day how a 924 would be fun to engine swap the basic car is there, just needs more go.  Getting a wide body and stuffing a v8 in is perfect.

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