sydr Posted 25August, 2019 Report Share Posted 25August, 2019 On 24/08/2019 at 21:31, Mike D'Silva said: Here is my 997 Muffler setup... it's a tad loud! love the sound, Mike, but does it drone? NOISY is GOOD, but Drone does my head in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 25August, 2019 Report Share Posted 25August, 2019 1 minute ago, sydr said: love the sound, Mike, but does it drone? NOISY is GOOD, but Drone does my head in! No, doesn't drone. If you want, I have another 997 muffler you can have for $50 (no pipe work though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydr Posted 25August, 2019 Report Share Posted 25August, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mike D'Silva said: No, doesn't drone. If you want, I have another 997 muffler you can have for $50 (no pipe work though) Thank you, yes please. for easy contact pse sms or call zero 418 18 zero 418 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cafe_racer Posted 25August, 2019 Report Share Posted 25August, 2019 I just got that new M&k active exhaust and their single inlet muffler. Great sounds from it. And unless you give it the beans not too loud. If you do step on the gas though the sound is glory. Peter M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydr Posted 25August, 2019 Report Share Posted 25August, 2019 On 24/08/2019 at 20:25, Peter M said: Sydr, Great story and thank you for telling it. I think many of us could take a leaf from your book on the subject of contentment and be so much happier as a result. Thanks again! While searching the archives I came across some photos that you may recognise: Since you've posted this, please stop for a second and salute a wonderful woman. Nicki passed away nearly 6 years ago, from Pancreatic Cancer. She was incredibly courageous, to the end. She was a special person, never complained when I drove too enthusiastically, even when I made her somewhat carsick - which is what was happening in the photograph which was taken making rather rapid progress along the Great Ocean Road while she was working with the navigation notes and the egg timer and calculating the variance between the Porsche speedo and reality. She was quiet, thoughtful and observant, considerate (Opposites attract). Somewhat shy. An amazing mother. She encouraged me to do things I certainly would not have done without her back up. Like, buy the 911 - and some other self indulgent purchases, and never expected something for herself because I'd bought something for myself. At the end of every trip, as we rolled into our driveway she would always quietly say "Thank you for bringing me home safely." I had a honeymoon that lasted nearly 40 years and I never failed to be proud of her. My life was richer because of her. edgy, Rod C, Scott930 and 19 others 21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 25August, 2019 Report Share Posted 25August, 2019 1 hour ago, cafe_racer said: I just got that new M&k active exhaust and their single inlet muffler. Great sounds from it. And unless you give it the beans not too loud. If you do step on the gas though the sound is glory. How much was that? Would be interested in a sound clip.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 25August, 2019 Report Share Posted 25August, 2019 1 hour ago, sydr said: Thank you, yes please. for easy contact pse sms or call zero 418 18 zero 418 PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cafe_racer Posted 26August, 2019 Report Share Posted 26August, 2019 4 hours ago, Mike D'Silva said: How much was that? Would be interested in a sound clip.. $1400 in total, i'll get a sound clip and will post it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 7September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 7September, 2019 Datalogging Had my first go at using the datalogging function in my ecu today. I was interested to see how much power I was leaving on the table with using the stock air cleaner. Discovered I've got a lot to learn on using the graphic package to present data managed to something together! Using 3rd gear roll ons from about 2000rpm to apply enough loading over a reasonable period to get useful almost steady state data. A few interesting points: Injector duty cycle is around 60%, ignition timing is only around 15 degrees at that loading and rpm, very conservative AFR. The pressure drop over the air filter and throttle body is about 16kPa (2.3psi! My absolute is already down 1.2psi to start with due to my elevation) which is heaps and worth exploring further. (Yeah, yeah settle down you ITB guys!) Next outing I'll do 3 runs: with air filter complete, without lid but with filter taped in place and then without both lid and filter and see what the differences are. Benny reckons there is about 3 Mainline rwhp in it. Will the sans filter and lid run indicate a bigger throttle body would be worth while? Let's see! Probably a better explanation of what I'm doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 7September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 7September, 2019 ECU Upgrades on "Old" Engines Yeah, I won't be going back to Motronic clutch-monkey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 8September, 2019 Report Share Posted 8September, 2019 I really like their presentation. Very well spoken, easy to understand (sort of). So you think you would use Haltech next time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepo Posted 9September, 2019 Report Share Posted 9September, 2019 On 17/08/2019 at 18:53, Peter M said: New to 3.2 Ownership? Squeaking Fan Motors - These cars have a large number of fan motors that have oilite style bearings. After many years the lubricant is lost and the motor will develop a squeak that will drive you crazy. I have found if you sit the motor in a small container of engine oil overnight that is deep enough to cover most of the bearing but not so deep to contaminate the brushes or the armature, these motors can be successfully saved. Hey Peter, is this fan fix what you did on the blower motor that sits at the back of the frunk? Mine is squeaking and I'm just wondering why you didn't split it like the comments in the following link. Was it an issue of removing ducts, cable linkages and those little round clips that sent you down another path? I'd be interested in your comments before I tackle the project. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/899739-fresh-air-blower-squeal-fix.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 9September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 9September, 2019 Hi Peter, That's a good link you added. Yes, we're lucky that all the housings are easy to split to access the motors and I have been doing that. However I've never been able to remove the press fit plastic squirrel cages from the shafts because of a fear of breaking them so that has made soaking the motor bearing bush adjoining the cage a bit of a challenge! I did both ventilation motors in my 993 by soaking in an ice cream container of oil and gave the cages a good wipe down with rag to remove the oil before reassembly. The smell of engine oil in the cabin dissipated after a couple of weeks! With the ventilation flap seals, I made new ones using this sheet foam rubber: https://www.jaycar.com.au/self-adhesive-sound-absorbing-foam/p/AX3662 I've used this rubber to make body seals and other bits and pieces. Very handy! Stepo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 9September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 9September, 2019 9 hours ago, Mike D'Silva said: I really like their presentation. Very well spoken, easy to understand (sort of). So you think you would use Haltech next time? I agree. Haltech are masters of marketing and are spending a lot of money on improving their profile and importantly their firmware. They have recently bought Adaptronic for added intellectual capability. Interesting thread here: http://performanceforums.com/forums/forum/general/general-discussions/209347-adaptronic-bought-by-haltech?67315607-Adaptronic-bought-by-Haltech= I attended Haltech's 2 day tuners workshop which I found very worthwhile and would certainly consider using a Haltech in a future build. However my tuner prefers Link to Haltech and as I learn M1 Tune it's going to be hard not to go Motec again, even if just for the convenience not having to learn something new. Trying to compare ECU's is a bit like trying to agree on the best religion, or heaven forbid, the best engine oil! RwGreeny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 10September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 10September, 2019 What's Losing the AFM on 3.2 is Worth? 12 Dynojet rwhp according to Steve Wong: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/636516-3-2-dyno-tests-airboxes-mufflers.html What's Extrudehoning the Intake Manifold and Bigger Throttle Body Worth? 7 Dynojet rwhp according to Steve Wong: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/126005-3-2-intake-mods-pics-info-good-read.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 12September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 12September, 2019 Worth posting and watching again: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 13September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 13September, 2019 Bigger Throttle Body Worth It? Appears to be but by how much I can't seem to find any one who knows for sure. This appears to be the closest thread to knowing something factual.... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1015032-3-2-throttle-body-question.html However the pressure drop I measured in my data log (above) suggests there's a few hp's to be exploited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 13September, 2019 Report Share Posted 13September, 2019 I didn't realise that Steve Wong did this for stock 3.2 and provides a modded chip too. Maybe send him an email direct, he was pretty good when I bought a chip for my 964. http://www.911chips.com/engine.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 14September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 14September, 2019 On 13/09/2019 at 21:05, Mike D'Silva said: Maybe send him an email direct..... Mike, What a devilishly simple idea! Might just do that! EFI Hardware in Victoria offer this service for $330. https://www.efihardware.com/products/1724/enlarge-throttle-body-fly-by-wire If I wasn't keen to keep the stock look I'd just go DBW and plastic 964/993 intake plenum: https://www.efihardware.com/products/3066/bosch-74mm-electronic-throttle-body or ITB's for that matter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 15September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 15September, 2019 On 07/09/2019 at 16:46, Peter M said: Datalogging The pressure drop over the air filter and throttle body is about 16kPa (2.3psi! My absolute is already down 1.2psi to start with due to my elevation) which is heaps and worth exploring further. (Yeah, yeah settle down you ITB guys!) Next outing I'll do 3 runs: with air filter complete, without lid but with filter taped in place and then without both lid and filter and see what the differences are. Benny reckons there is about 3 Mainline rwhp in it. Will the sans filter and lid run indicate a bigger throttle body would be worth while? Let's see! Doh'! I don't know where I got the notion the ambient absolute air pressure here is 101kPa! Too much watching national weather reports maybe. Doing some data runs today had the MAP showing 90.8kPa engine off so the pressure drop across the air filter and throttle body is no where near my estimates of last week. Today showed the pressure drop to be between 5.1kPa (Standard airbox lid and filter) to 3.8kPa (No lid/no filter and surprisingly Lid with extra holes with filter) at WOT at around 6100 to 6300rpm . At best that's a pressure drop of 0.55psi. (There was an effect on Lambda but not much and certainly not a concern as I'm very very safely rich.) So drilled lid it is! The holes have been discretely placed so it still looks standard unless you look really hard. Now begs the question if a larger throttle body would actually provide a measurable benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 18September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 18September, 2019 @Redracn Red, Have you any advice on sizing throttle bodies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redracn Posted 18September, 2019 Report Share Posted 18September, 2019 20 minutes ago, Peter M said: @Redracn Red, Have you any advice on sizing throttle bodies? I haven't been following this thread so I am probably a bit in the dark about what is going on. I did just look at the logging screen shot above and the MAP pressure and had a good giggle as it was a very flat trace which is not what you get with airbox/filter restrictions. You expect to see the MAP pressure drop as the airflow increases. I am concerned that Motec is in trouble as they have not released a new product in over 5Years which is forever in a fast changing hi tech industry and a lot of the products are now old and stale. M1 was designed around 2006 so even it is showing its age. Even the colour dashes are just an ADL3 with a third party plug in graphics processor added to run the colour LCD. "What size throttle bodies?" Or do you mean a single throttle body? Now there's a loaded question. ITB are a tuned resonant part of the system so as usual the answer is that it depends!. Heads, cams, rev range etc. Every bit needs to work with the other bits to give the best result. The best source of this information is from someone who has been there and done that with real data/results to back up their expertise. When it comes to power and dyno results the old saying "the BS stops when the flag drops" about somes it up. My advice is that unless you are just happy to have a bit of a play and the final results are not that important do it right once and go to an expert on your engine. Yes I know there are many so called self proclaimed experts out there and finding a genuine one is near impossible.😟 Now for a TB that feeds a plenum it just needs to be big enough to have minimal pressure drop across it. What pressure drop is acceptable? Well that depends too.. I would expect something around 75mm would give good results on a 3.2 but that depends on what feeds it and what is on the other side. I.e no use being bigger than what follows or precedes it. The less sudden cross section area changes the better for air flow. Now you need some CFD calculations or a good old fashion flow bench to evaluate all aspects of the inlet path. I did a check the other day on my rally cars stock air filter. At full noise it dropped 9KPa. Put in a K&N and the drop was under 1KPa being a Turbo it did not change the end result much but in a NA it is a huge gain. Lesson! Air filters matter especially on a NA engine. Mike D'Silva and Peter M 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 24September, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 24September, 2019 On 18/09/2019 at 20:06, Redracn said: Now for a TB that feeds a plenum it just needs to be big enough to have minimal pressure drop across it. What pressure drop is acceptable? Well that depends too.. I would expect something around 75mm would give good results on a 3.2 but that depends on what feeds it and what is on the other side. I.e no use being bigger than what follows or precedes it. Given that Porsche has used the same 74mm DBW Bosch throttle bodies on all the following cars with capacities from 2.7 to 3.8 litres, they agree with you! Porsche MY06-09 - 911 Carrera, Carrera (997), Carrera 4, Carrera 4 (997), GT2 & more Also use (Qty.) (1) 997 110 319 00 seal. MY05-05 - 911 Carrera (997) Also use (Qty.) (1) 997 110 319 00 seal. Manufacturer Body Code: 997 Only for cars with option M620 e-accelerator. Also use (Qty.) (1) 997 110 319 00 seal. Manufacturer Body Code: 996 MY05-08 - 911 Carrera 4S, Carrera 4S (997S), Carrera S, Carrera S (997S), Targa 4S & more Not for cars with option X51 Power Kit Also use (Qty.) (1) 997 110 319 00 seal. MY99-05 - 911 (996), 40TH ANNIVERSARY Edition, Carrera 2 (996), Carrera 4 (996), Carrera 4S & more Only for cars with option M620 e-accelerator. Also use (Qty.) (1) 997 110 319 00 seal. MY15-15 - 918 Spyder Also use (Qty.) (1) 9A1 110 319 00 seal. MY07-12 - Boxster Base, LIMITED, RS60 Spyder, S, S BLACK Edition & more Also use (Qty.) (1) 997 110 319 00 seal. MY13-16 - Boxster Base, Black Edition, GTS, S, Spyder Also use (Qty.) (1) 9A1 110 319 00 seal. MY09-09 - Boxster S Also use (Qty.) (1) 997 110 319 00 seal. MY04-18 - Cayenne Base, Platinum Edition Also use (Qty.) (1) 997 110 319 00 seal. MY06-12 - Cayman Base, R, S Also use (Qty.) (1) 997 110 319 00 seal. MY14-16 - Cayman Base, Black Edition, GT4, GTS, S Also use (Qty.) (1) 9A1 110 319 00 seal. MY09-09 - Cayman S Also use (Qty.) (1) 997 110 319 00 seal. MY15-18 - Macan GTS, S, Turbo Also use (Qty.) (1) 948 110 144 02 seal. MY11-16 - Panamera Base, 4, 4 Edition, Edition Also use (Qty.) (1) 946 110 144 01 seal. So one of these looks the ticket and can be bought locally from EFI Hardware for about $260 AUD https://www.bosch-motorsport-shop.com.au/electronic-throttle-body-74mm-bore Note: even the generic motorsport ones have a Porsche part number! Even the mounting PCD is the same as the standard 3.2 so should be an easy bolt on. https://www.raceworks.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/LR-RWORKS-DATA-TBO-500.pdf I seem to recall Martin's been down this path before with DBW: https://porscheforum.com.au/topic/4748-91130-hotrod-yeah-again/?do=findComment&comment=140748 https://porscheforum.com.au/topic/4748-91130-hotrod-yeah-again/?do=findComment&comment=135926 firstone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 6October, 2019 Author Report Share Posted 6October, 2019 Another cool engine build. Old but still worth a read. I wouldn't mind a ITB with common plenum setup too if I had some spare cash to lubricate my way (further) down the slippery slope! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/553991-tale-one-insane-911-motor.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutch-monkey Posted 6October, 2019 Report Share Posted 6October, 2019 16 minutes ago, Peter M said: Another cool engine build. Old but still worth a read. I wouldn't mind a ITB with common plenum setup too if I had some spare cash to lubricate my way (further) down the slippery slope! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/553991-tale-one-insane-911-motor.html i have the adaptors for jenvey ITB to 964 intake under my bench somewhere.. Peter M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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