Lowndes in a Porsche

[LeeM]

 Great to see Aussie legend Craig Lowndes in a Porsche at the 12hour 👍 Bloody good driver line up in that team

 https://www.speedcafe.com/2020/01/14/lowndes-joins-b12hr-winning-porsche-squad-for-2020/?fbclid=IwAR2S-CdyoUPs7OJJY8ft1yVghdqcbff1yQGoy08zsS16dtulKXXS6Mstda4

[Raven]

looking forward to seeing him at the 12hr in a Porsche 

[firstone]

Ol fart, give someone else a go. 😂

 

[spiller]

Cracking team to have your Porsche debut with too. Can’t wait.

[WGA]

Don’t you think it’s about time they ditched the V8 Supercar formula and adopted GT3/GT4 class racing?

[LeeM]

4 minutes ago, WGA said:

Don’t you think it’s about time they ditched the V8 Supercar formula and adopted GT3/GT4 class racing?

 Absolutely! 

They did try to pump up the GT series, yet the organisers ensured they stuffed that up for various reasons. Last meeting at The Bend they had 11 cars total! Eleven?? 

 V8 racing to me is dead or its dying a death, as the Supercars management also seem to be trying to maximize their dollar instead of engaging with the fans. The support categories are usually a pisstake, and the entry fees are getting way beyond what people can afford.

 The new to Oz TCR class seems to be gaining momentum, but I hate the sound of those 4cyl things. Time will tell if its successful, yet in all honesty, I think Australian motorsport at the top end is gradually killing itself. I'm very bored with it all

[Arnage]

38 minutes ago, WGA said:

Don’t you think it’s about time they ditched the V8 Supercar formula and adopted GT3/GT4 class racing?

Yes the V8's have had their day & time to move on. Personally I don't think GT3/4 is the answer to fill the gap, it's too exclusive & does not relate to the average guy or gal, it would be great for us who love Motorsport but will it put bums on seats?

It will be atough nut to crack. I have said before that the organisers need to drop the shithouse support cat of the so called "Super Utes"  &  replace with a formula such as TCR which is similar to the BTCC in the uk, just look at the crowds that brings in. The fans can have a connection to the cars, it's not all about factory run cars & does attract privateers. The 4 bangers sound pretty good, not a good as a V8 I concede 

My fear is that if the V8's go then so will the paying spectators. It's bad enough already, you only have to watch Speedweek to realise no one goes to watch. If it's burn outs, blowing up engines & popping tyres they will come in droves.

[LeeM]

 That's the thing mate. The V8's are now direct competition with TCR, so theyll never be a support category unless one buys out the other.

 What the V8's need is back to basics grass roots racing like Group S, N, improved production etc. IP was a massive grid here in Adelaide and the crowd loved it, so why not have them on the bill? Cost! Supercars want so much money from support classes that they can't afford it. Even Touring Car Masters are gradually becoming more aligned with Shannons Nationals and the other series that's up and running now, yet that's become a borefest with either Johnson or Bowe winning most races by a country mile unless they break down. Superutes are just a bloody joke, especially now that they're fitting V8 crate engines for this season. Where can you buy a V8 Triton? You can't!

 Last weekend we had the Asian Le Mans series at The Bend, and apparently there were a few more spectators than the Shannon's nationals I went to a while ago which was next to bugger all! 23 cars on that grid using the big 7.7km track is next to boring as batshit with 2.58 laps. I nearly went along, but a 90 minute drive each way, the cost to get in etc had me say "Bugger that, I'll watch it online and Foxtel". I'm just getting lazier all the time I spose, especially when the Le Mans cars were here! 

  I maybe biased, but the only racing I feel has any semblance of entertainment is Carrera cup and the GT3 Porsche cup. Infact, I'll go so far as to say I'm just bored with motorsport in general now, excluding MotoGP ofcourse, as it's all become way too professional and basically written scripts with who is going to win. Theres no door bashing because of pathetic regulations to not offend the snowflakes who think little Tommy will be a maniac when he grows up, so what's the point of it when none of the cars can be bought off the showroom floor? 

 F1 is not even worth mentioning as a spectator sport, as that's beyond boring now.

 I'd love to go to Bathurst for the 12 hour just to experience it and the track for the first time, but can't afford the time off. Let's hope some Aussies get back in the thick of it like Matt Campbell did last year

 

[JV911]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have viewing and crowd figures for the V8s?

12 hours ago, LeeM said:

 What the V8's need is back to basics grass roots racing like Group S, N, improved production etc. IP was a massive grid here in Adelaide and the crowd loved it

Yea, but I don't know if they can pull a decent TV audience which is where the money is. A new Group A would be ideal, but I can't think of a single car that would be suitable, or that i'd want to watch....it's hard to get back to grass roots when manufacturers make predominantly SUVs and hatch backs.

[LeeM]

 Totally understand what you mean @JV911, though by grass roots I meant getting club racers and their old Celica's, Datsuns, Corollas, old 911's etc. The improved production was a massive hit with a full grid at the Adelaide 500, Tasmania and that wild race at Bathurst a year or two ago. People can relate to those types of cars. I also realise it's all for tv, yet Supercars management are focussing way too much on running a very profitable business, which is understandable to a point, but they need to liven up the support categories instead of a field of 10 4wd utes. They're flogging a dead horse with them unless they get 20 odd cars on the grid. When punters are paying $75-95 a day to go watch, they want value for money which many are saying they aren't and have stopped going to the track.

 Again, it all comes down to money now, and that's a bloody shame for most motorsport fans

[JWM]

20 hours ago, LeeM said:

 F1 is not even worth mentioning as a spectator sport, as that's beyond boring now.

I was of the same mind for many, many years... but, the last half of the 2019 season, immediately after the winter break, really had me glued to it... Such a turn around! Really interesting races. Before that, I don't think I'd watched a race (other than a bit of the Melbourne and Singapore) for years - but I watched every single qualifying, race and even quite a few of the practice sessions in the last six months...

I also really enjoyed watching the "Drive to Survive" series they had on Netflix. That was a bit of a master stroke for pulling fans who haven't really been paying attention back in I think, I got straight up to speed with the new teams, drivers, team principals, and what was going on since I'd last taken notice, and that added to the great racing.

Sensational stuff that I hope we get more of next year, and more again when things get a shake up with the new rules in 2021... Especially if the rumours of Ricciardo going to Ferrari pan out...

As for V8's, I think they're just flogging that dead horse as long as they can to get back what they paid for the series a few years back... I can't stomach it at all any more, from the cars to listening to the drivel of most of the drivers and the commentary...

[LeeM]

 @JWMI haven't seen the F1 Drive to Survive series (no Netflix), yet that sort of thing interests me more with the behind the scenes stuff. The SkySports commentary and incessant dribble during practise and in between sessions drives me nuts! I just can't watch any of it. 

 Supercars commentary is also bordering on utter dribble, especially Skaife, then ofcourse the pit reporters who are trying to cause rifts between drivers for tv, not to mention Crompton interviewing people and is always looking away from them 😡

 Think I'm just becoming a grumpy old man 🙄

 

[JWM]

38 minutes ago, LeeM said:

 @JWMI haven't seen the F1 Drive to Survive series (no Netflix), yet that sort of thing interests me more with the behind the scenes stuff.

Well worth getting hold of a copy if you can, it was really interesting and much more candid that I was expecting. I thought it would be pretty tame 'press release' type stuff but a lot of it was really open... You're not left in any doubt over things like what Horner thought of the Renault engines, or what Cyril thought of Horner! 🤣 Interesting insight into Ricciardo's move to Renault and a heap of other behind the scenes stuff. 

Maybe I didn't watch enough to have a complete gut full of the commentary team. I'll check in with you again end of 2020 with an update 😁...

[firstone]

@LeeM you probably are becoming a grumpy old man, 😆  but you've nailed it.

[Raven]

2 hours ago, firstone said:

@LeeM you probably are becoming a grumpy old man, 😆  but you've nailed it.

nothing wrong with being a grumpy old man ,,I am looking forward to it myself 

[JV911]

12 hours ago, LeeM said:

 Totally understand what you mean @JV911, though by grass roots I meant getting club racers and their old Celica's, Datsuns, Corollas, old 911's etc.

Perhaps I could have phrased the sentence about manufacturers better - it was in the context of Group A at it begin grass roots in the "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" way.

[donR]

I agree with what people are saying about the V8s. I guess what still generates a bit of interest from me is the characters that you follow over the years. It does add a bit of interest when those guys like Lowndes, Whincup and Reynolds to name a few jump into a GT car and mix it with some of the international guys. I guess when you are driving at that level you can almost make anything go fast on any track. 

By the way is anyone going there to watch and any tips such as for spectator locations?

Last time I was there was in the 90s watching the Super Tourers in the 12 hour. 

[LeeM]

12 hours ago, JWM said:

 

Maybe I didn't watch enough to have a complete gut full of the commentary team. I'll check in with you again end of 2020 with an update 😁...

 Just the incessant dribble about the drivers personal lives, like who platts Hamiltons hair or what manbag he uses. S'pose I just don't subscribe to the fanboy side of sports stars. Their excitement at all things F1 when its clearly not is laughable too.

If Ricciardo heads to Ferrari I'll probably watch more, but as it is now it's just too stale in my opinion 

3 hours ago, Raven said:

nothing wrong with being a grumpy old man ,,I am looking forward to it myself 

 Enjoy 😁👍

[WGA]

I am convinced that the only way forward is the widespread adoption of the GT4/GT3 class. It would allow local operators to race a car almost out of the box, especially in the GT4 class, at a low entry cost.

The crowd at the Bathurst 12hr promises to be huge so presumably the support is there to support a national competition.

[Raven]

I agree on the GT4 format ,,I personally would love to see this happen as this already covers the two cars the Australian public want to see in the V8 supercars ,,,EG the Mustang and the Camaro ,,,both are available in turn key GT4 spec ready to race platforms for half the cost of a V8 supercar .

There are a host of other brands of Vehicles available to compete in GT4 class and this would put Australia in a global category , instead of this current one off format we have ,GT4 offers close racing from cars with different engine types and layouts competing together ,,unlike the V8 format that use the same chassis and driveline ,,,only things that differ are engine brand and cosmetic panels to differentiate the brands..

The issue is not the class or the types of cars its the people who control V8 supercars ,the big players V8 supercars commission and their investors who have a huge financial investment in it and all the related merch and TV rights ,,they are not going to give up the supercars formula if it is making them money ,,regardless of there being a cheaper and more widespread global race class out there like GT racing .

The V8 supercar power brokers will not want to lose their control to a FIA governed format like GT racing .

As with everything in life it seems to come down to  money and power ,,,the majority of use here see it as a better and more relevant form of racing ,than the current V8,s ,,,,but I can guarantee that the likes of the V8 supercars commission and their investment partners see the GT format as the ultimate evil and the end to their reign ..