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Why so expensive?


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 I've been asked this a few times by people, and I've not been able to answer it because it baffles me.

Why have older cars become so expensive? Not just Porsches (even though I still think the prices are ridiculous), but Mini's, Cortina's etc etc. I recently saw a Mini Cooper S 'replica' sold for $60k, and a Lotus Cortina replica for $55k. For replicas?? 😲 Also, when a bone stock (albeit immaculate) 6 cylinder HK Monaro sells for $125k, you have to wonder why on earth someone would pay that sorta coin when they could own something outrageous for a lot less money. Same with Porsches too. Why pay $150k for a longhood 911 when you can have a GT3 for the same money or even less? Or in my case a '78 911 when I could buy a nice 996? I prefer the look of my car to a 996, yet from a spirited hills driving perspective (which is the only real reason I drive my car) the 996 kicks its arse.

 Is it because new cars are just so friggin boring and lose half of its value the second you drive off the showroom floor, or is it just the nostalgia of owning something old? I just don't get it at all why old cars are so expensive really, and wish to ask what you think? 

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 My old ute is worth S F A :)  I remember I was looking at a Magnum Ferrari it was 32 K ,Then a bit of life happened, Had another look and it had jumped a 100k, Along with every other Classic car, I think investors saw it as a good way to stash some dough.

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I think it's partly 'the second/weekend car' thing. Whereby you have your daily and family car sorted and now want something special for the weekend. Purchasing the real deal is worth a bomb, so the replica is the next alternative.

Having built many cars over my years and currently doing the 71, it's an expensive exercise. The older these cars get, the less parts there are which just inflates the price even further!

I agree with you totally, that if it's your 'only' car, then shit yeah, water cooled all the way = waaaaaay better car for the money! I also believe there's the bit of reliving the youth and having that old school feeling. In my opinion, money can't buy it, however driving an old car gets you damn close ;) 

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Boomers and cheap rates for so long. It’s not just cars, it is anything that can be a store of wealth.

Turd pinball machines that would struggle to sell for $1200 a bit over 10 years ago now ask 7-8k. How’s that for ROI?

Once the boomer money starts filtering out of the system over the next 15 years a lot of ‘asset’ classes will be hit hard. Classic cars will definitely be one of those, never mind that they’ll probably be banned from the road at some point (or the fuel will be).

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Happy to debate the pro's & con's of older cars vs newer cars and everyone will have their own opinion on this....................

The main reason for the pricing is simply supply VS demand equation. Plenty of options and availability out there for new cars, finding (good) old cars is a much harder proposition. So, if you are in the market for a 'good' older car the availability is much more limited and given this they tend to command a premium as a result. There is still a decent population of people chasing their childhood dream cars and/or wanting their own piece of motoring history so as a result the 'classic' car market still seems to tick along. 

It does beg the question though as to if this will continue to happen in the future? Given the significant increase in production numbers and the significant decrease in the population that are choosing to own a car (not even bothering to get a drivers licence let alone seen a manual trans before!) its hard to say if there will be the same increase in pricing as we have seen over the last 10-15 years.

The "car enthusiast" is an ageing demographic and as @sleazius says, the age of the asset rich "Boomers" living out their childhood car ownership dreams maybe a thing of the past.

The motoring world moved quickly through the 60's & 70's as it was a battle of ideas era - people who grew up in this period tend to get excited by cars as a result. Throughout the 80's and 90's it became more of an economically driven exercise, progress was more incremental, desirability for cars throughout this era is more selective as a result. Its only now as we are transitioning into electric cars etc. that we are seeing a spike in technology and it seems like again the race is on to build better cars. The difference being though that 'better' in this instance (unlike the 70's) is more focused around the range of your battery and the ability no not even need to drive it at all! I believe this will no doubt shape the car enthusiast of the future. 

So I say get out and enjoy "driving" your cars now while you still can. Highly likely that we will be the last generation of petrol dependent, gear head motoring junkies that enjoy getting our hands dirty! 

(Sorry @LeeM for a bit of a thread tangent, great topic for discussion though!) 

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I think one of the reasons also will be the onslaught of boring electric and hybrid cars. (IMHO)

Some enthusiasts who have loved the "older" type cars are now trying to get back into them.

The newer generations have no interest in the classics of yesteryear.   Their interests lie with iPhones etc etc etc..

In not too many years to come petrol will be a no no, and all our environmentalists will be looking down their climate emergency noses at anyone who uses it.

Governments local and Federal will tax us out of existence when we register our petrol cars and buy fuel for them.

Only a matter of time before we will all be in electric buzz boxes.    Get your old classic while you can.

Bring back the Datsun 1600 days......BBBWWWWAAAHHHHHHHHH:(

 

  

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I had this theory a few years ago that a bunch of rich mates got together and decided to advertise their cars (Porsches, Ferrari's etc) for double the normal advertised price with absolutely no intention of selling them and knowing full well that no one will buy them just so others will think that their car is worth that amount as well (this ploy to increase the value of their own cars ) then all of a sudden everyone was trying to sell their car at that inflated price so what was a $50k car on average became a (advertised) $100k car and no one had a choice but to buy at the inflated price because that was all that was available and thinking wow these cars must be a good investment but as I said it's just a theory. 😉

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2 minutes ago, 3legs said:

I had this theory a few years ago that a bunch of rich mates got together and decided to advertise their cars (Porsches, Ferrari's etc) for double the normal advertised price with absolutely no intention of selling them and knowing full well that no one will buy them just so others will think that their car is worth that amount as well (this ploy to increase the value of their own cars ) then all of a sudden everyone was trying to sell their car at that inflated price so what was a $50k car on average became a (advertised) $100k car and no one had a choice but to buy at the inflated price because that was all that was available and thinking wow these cars must be a good investment but as I said it's just a theory. 😉

That is a good theory and very true .

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7 hours ago, LeeM said:

 I've been asked this a few times by people, and I've not been able to answer it because it baffles me.

Why have older cars become so expensive? Not just Porsches (even though I still think the prices are ridiculous), but Mini's, Cortina's etc etc. I recently saw a Mini Cooper S 'replica' sold for $60k, and a Lotus Cortina replica for $55k. For replicas?? 😲 Also, when a bone stock (albeit immaculate) 6 cylinder HK Monaro sells for $125k, you have to wonder why on earth someone would pay that sorta coin when they could own something outrageous for a lot less money. Same with Porsches too. Why pay $150k for a longhood 911 when you can have a GT3 for the same money or even less? Or in my case a '78 911 when I could buy a nice 996? I prefer the look of my car to a 996, yet from a spirited hills driving perspective (which is the only real reason I drive my car) the 996 kicks its arse.

 Is it because new cars are just so friggin boring and lose half of its value the second you drive off the showroom floor, or is it just the nostalgia of owning something old? I just don't get it at all why old cars are so expensive really, and wish to ask what you think? 

Whilst Im not doubting your figures at all Lee, I think people always have and always will quote the high watermark figures on a car.

Good Cooper S replicas are a $25K proposition as are Lotus Cortinas, I would consider cutting my genuine Mk1 Cooper S loose for $60K.😲

My point would be to consider how the market relates to rarity as well as the desireability, XU.1  Toranas are desireable to some of us but 3200  made and not a "world " car means there's plenty still kicking around.

Our collector car market is not strong enough to support multiple sales of any Marque IMO

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There is also the theory that the collectors, both here and overseas, have plundered our market of most of the “best” examples, leaving the rest to fight over what’s left, which tends to drive up prices.

...but the stock market hit a pothole yesterday, so there should be some toys appearing soon.

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1 hour ago, 3legs said:

I had this theory a few years ago that a bunch of rich mates got together and decided to advertise their cars (Porsches, Ferrari's etc) for double the normal advertised price with absolutely no intention of selling them and knowing full well that no one will buy them just so others will think that their car is worth that amount as well (this ploy to increase the value of their own cars ) then all of a sudden everyone was trying to sell their car at that inflated price so what was a $50k car on average became a (advertised) $100k car and no one had a choice but to buy at the inflated price because that was all that was available and thinking wow these cars must be a good investment but as I said it's just a theory. 😉

isn't this what happened to GTHO's?

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so is it likely the prices of new will drop?

We are just about to recommence shopping for a new Macan or alternative after a few weeks off, maybe prices will trickle down if luxury cars get harder to shift.

My first car was a 71 Capri, bought for $2,000 when I was 18. At around 25 or 30, I considerd selling it but didnt need the $8k or so at the time.

So I still have it now, still rego'd, and insured. No way could I buy one now.

I picked up an Escort MK2 2L up a few years ago, now running, yet to paint up.

Prices for them have close to doubled in the time I have had it, and solid, restorable ones are harder to come across.

You are best to find as complete a car as possible, as any parts for 40 year+ cars are getting rarer.

 

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5 minutes ago, deano said:

so is it likely the prices of new will drop?

We are just about to recommence shopping for a new Macan or alternative after a few weeks off, maybe prices will trickle down if luxury cars get harder to shift.

You might get a deal if they stop selling. Macan is the volume seller though so I highly doubt it.

They couldn't give 4cyl 718 Caymans away and you were lucky to negotiate 10%. The dealers are factory owned, getting a deal of any consequence is pretty difficult.

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owchy. I like my 718, but I get what you are saying.

So even PC Brighton isn't private?

I haven't had this sought of purchasing environment much before, usually everything is negotiable, so long as you approach it fair and aren't a knob about it.

It is refreshing in a way to cut out alot of the BS out of new car buying, if that's truly the price, then thats the price.

MB seem more open to negotiating, though for sure, with street price around 10% off initial quoted.

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1 hour ago, deano said:

owchy. I like my 718, but I get what you are saying.

So even PC Brighton isn't private?

I haven't had this sought of purchasing environment much before, usually everything is negotiable, so long as you approach it fair and aren't a knob about it.

It is refreshing in a way to cut out alot of the BS out of new car buying, if that's truly the price, then thats the price.

MB seem more open to negotiating, though for sure, with street price around 10% off initial quoted.

Lol - sorry - I didn't realise you had one, but they were a really hard sell.

Most of the Euros you can negotiate at least 20% off them, for Porsche 5% seems to be about it. Always ask the question, it never hurts to ask.

I did get laughed at repeatedly by different dealers when I asked for a discount on my GT3 .... got to get use to rejection. When the GT2 RS came around though a lot of people dropped their allocations and I probably could have negotiated then. A car that was unobtainable only months before, suddenly was very attainable to anyone who had the coin.

edit - what I meant to say above was PCA is factory owned -> the dealers that aren't owned by PCA don't have a lot of say in setting their prices as a result.

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27 minutes ago, sleazius said:

A car that was unobtainable only months before, suddenly was very attainable to anyone who had the coin.

Absolutely... hasn't the landscape changed dramatically! GT4's were selling above sticker on first release... don't think they can find them all homes at the moment, whilst its been no secret for a while, I was offered a 718 GT4 allocation "if I wanted one" :LOL:

27 minutes ago, sleazius said:

the dealers that aren't owned by PCA don't have a lot of say in setting their prices as a result.

Odd, when benchmarking Macan pricing on a different forum in the earlier Macan days, the conclusion was the franchised dealers negotiated harder than the PCA owned ones.... but your 5% if you're lucky number sticks regardless 

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