Simonk Posted 8December, 2012 Report Share Posted 8December, 2012 Hi everyone This is my first post so hopefully I make a good impression. My Porsche story starts 11 years ago when I was 25 years old. I was a very lucky young man living rent free and having just enough disposable income to own an '86 911 Carerra. It took a long time to find the right one but I eventually got the keys to a beautiful Moss Green one with 147,000kms on the clock. I took great care of the car and it treated me well with no major problems in the 2 years I owned it. The problem was the suspension was getting tired and so was the gearbox and I just couldn't afford to give the car the attention it needed. So I sold it hoping that one day Id get myself into another one when I was older and wiser. So 11 years down the track and Im almost ready to buy. I've been keeping a close eye on the market the last 12 months and have recently got the wife keen on gettin one also but...she wants to wait 6 months for financial reasons. I can live with that as I'm in no rush to buy. But it seems fate has me seriously considering buying now. You see, my old Moss Green '86 Carerra is up for sale. To be back in the old girl would be quite special but the only thing holding me back is the mileage, 220,000kms. Knowing the cost of a rebuild has me concerned that I could be sitting on a time bomb if I buy it. So I thought I'd seek some wise advise from the people of this forum. The plan for the car is for weekend use, up to 5,000kms a year, would be driven maturely and to own it until the day I die. Well, you never know about the last one. A PPI will tell me if the engine is in good shape but will it give any indication of a required rebuild in the future. The car is advertised for $42k. I'm thinking mid to hi $30ks s more reasonable. It has full service history but not at Porsche. Am I on the right track or will I offend the seller offering that price? Should I just hang out and get a sub 100km car. I notice cars sold by the Porsche dealership are $10-$15k more expensive but seem to get snapped up very quickly. What is the attraction of these cars? Is it for investment reasons or is there a perceived reliability advantage. It seems a big premium to pay but if the general consensus was to look out for one of these, then Id seriously consider it. If I paid $35k for the green one but then had to pay for a rebuild then I'd probably have been better off spending more to begin with. That's about it for now. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 8December, 2012 Report Share Posted 8December, 2012 Hi Simon, Welcome to the forum! Keeping in mind you are looking to purchase a near 30 yo car, I would not be so focused on kms but rather the maintenance/history of both the car and owner. For example there are many high kms 911's out there win mature owners who don't cut corners in maintenance, but there are also plenty of cowboy rock star cars with fewer kms that have driven them hard and don't spend the required money to keep them running at their optimum. Even in newer cars Kms can be a misleading indication of car condition. Sometimes the higher kms cars can run better and are in better condition! A PPI is the best way to determine the state of what you are buying. I love the story of you buying your old car and I would encourage you to pursue- you just need to know what you are buying so you get It for the right price. If you are planning to keep the car a rebuild will probably be inevitable on anything you purchase, something that should be factored into your long term plan regardless. High 30's seems right so long as it is in a reasonable condition, great cars for the money. I hope to hear a happy ending to this story! Cheers, Hugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 8December, 2012 Report Share Posted 8December, 2012 Would be nice to get the old car back. Full PPI will reveal any issues with particular attention paid to the gearbox's action. I would also recommend that the specialist drop the oil and remove the cambox covers to inspect for broken head studs, which is a common occurrence. The higher priced dealer cars are generally perceived to be of a better quality and you have the full backing of a recognised dealer. Personally I feel that the premium is not worth it and a good PPI by a trusted independant specialist will reveal what you are considering buying. Sub 100k km cars will command a premium, however these cars are best left for people who prefer to wash their car and show them in concours etc... Moss Green is a rare colour for the model you state and would be worth investing in that car at the right price. Hard to say about price...........without seeing the overall condition of the vehicle and having a detailed PPI completed. I always buy on condition, as opposed to mileage. Just remember, they are all 50 grand cars, whether you pay it up front or later on. Don't even think its an investment as there are 1000's of C3.2's. The best you can expect is to buy the car, run it for a while, avoid any big bills by maintaining it correctly and move it on later on down the track for as close as what you paid for it. The investment is in the smile on your face. Have you got a good specialist you can trust to do a PPI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Man Posted 8December, 2012 Report Share Posted 8December, 2012 http://carsales.mobi/cars/details/?R=13817532 This the one? Emotional attachment is difficult at times. Get a PPI and if it doesn't deliver the goods walk away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smule Posted 8December, 2012 Report Share Posted 8December, 2012 Don't even think its an investment as there are 1000's of C3.2's. The best you can expect is to buy the car, run it for a while, avoid any big bills by maintaining it correctly and move it on later on down the track for as close as what you paid for it. 1000's built... but only 75 delivered new in Australia.... Going on what others said...Be more concerned with a PPI and how it drives then what the odometer reads..they're all 30 years old now and need work in one way or another not withstanding ongoing maintenance... A good one will put a big smile on your face !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 8December, 2012 Report Share Posted 8December, 2012 1000's built... but only 75 delivered new in Australia.... Only 75 delivered between 1984 and 1989? Targa's , convertibles and Coupes? Crikeys, I would have thought there were more than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doish13 Posted 8December, 2012 Report Share Posted 8December, 2012 The mileage is low compared to mine and a few other members here and should not be an issue as long as its healthy. Don't want to tell you how to suck eggs however PPI check on body, engine condition and etc would suffice for me. Mine has 170 thousand miles and the mileage bothered me until I got the pass with PPI and was driving home from picking up. Add a few K for sentimental meaning this car has. NB what did you sell it for if you don't mind me asking and is this the same owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smule Posted 8December, 2012 Report Share Posted 8December, 2012 Only 75 delivered between 1984 and 1989? Targa's , convertibles and Coupes? Crikeys, I would have thought there were more than that? Sorry should clarify ..75 coupes.. as per Jason Pasco.... I do stand corrected but that was my understanding from his email when you i queried my car and delivery numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 8December, 2012 Report Share Posted 8December, 2012 Sorry should clarify ..75 coupes.. as per Jason Pasco.... I do stand corrected but that was my understanding from his email when you i queried my car and delivery numbers Well there you go. Jason is a very helpful chap, I have used him many a time. I would have thought there were loads more than that, probably is a few more imports now though. Worldwide production was 76500, I guess thats why they are so cheap in Europe and USA. This particular Green car looks to be unique though as its a colour not often seen......worth pursuing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonk Posted 9December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Thanks for all your feedback guys. The ad above is the one I'm talking about. I bought it in about 2001 for $50,000. Seemed a reasonable price at the time. Porsche Melbourne were selling them for about $60,000 and they'd sell before they even hit the yard. When it came time to sell 2 years later I had it on the market for 6 months for about $47k without a phone call. I eventually left it with a shonky used car dealer who gave me $40k and sold it on consignment. Only took him a couple months to sell it. The colour is definately rare. I've only ever seen one other and that was a wide body Carerra. I'll keep you all posted with what happens next but it seems my first hurdle is still the mrs. And maybe my brother who's pressuring me to get a UK wide body instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Get the go ahead from the minister for finance (the Mrs) first. If she isn't on board then you are in for a rough time. This car is worth pursuing due to its rare colour. UK wide body could have rust and body issues (salt on the roads) But again, test drive the cars and see which one makes you smile the most.....then decide!! PPI is fundemental to the purchase though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJames Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 ... maybe my brother who's pressuring me to get a UK wide body instead. Be very wary of UK cars. Yes, they were galvanised, but German galvanisation seems to be beaten by the combination of UK weather and "salted" roads. I'm not for a second saying that you won't find a good UK car, but the odds seem to be stacked against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 Be very wary of UK cars. Yes, they were galvanised, but German galvanisation seems to be beaten by the combination of UK weather and "salted" roads. I'm not for a second saying that you won't find a good UK car, but the odds seem to be stacked against. They seem to suffer badly. Although there are exceptions that I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-banger Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 If you go for a UK car, there should be a big discount from the equivalent Aussie delivered car because when you one day go to sell it prospective buyers will expect to pay a discounted price. Unless they find a cure to rust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 As for uk cars, browse the impact bumpers forum for a bit, maybe use the keyword 'rust' to open the eyes. Effectively most people buying an unrestored model make the assumption it needs rust repairs around the sills and guards. The problem with uk cars is that most don't get garaged. So even if they don't get driven on salty roads ( and anyone who tells you that is lying, because they don't post a salting schedule, they just go out and lay down salt when they think the temp might get low) - they sit in permanently cold and drizzly weather. All the dirt and muck sits inside the guards and elsewhere, and it stays damp for half the year. And that's when the thin layer of gal just isn't up to the job. You can find original, clean, always garaged Porsches from the uk. Bt you will pay top dollar, if you can find one. You can also find restored rust-free examples, but again, top dollar. Unless you can be extremely confident that a uk example is rust free, the price difference may not be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babalouie Posted 9December, 2012 Report Share Posted 9December, 2012 When I watch Wheeler Dealers, and whenever they put a car up on the hoist, the sight of all those rusted nuts and bolts (even on pretty newish cars) gives me the willies. Even tho the post 78 911s are galvanised, even late 80s models are getting rusty over there, eg: http://www.pbcm.co.uk/html/911_supersport.html Some bargains to be had, I'm sure, but you would def. want to shop carefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 10December, 2012 Report Share Posted 10December, 2012 >the sight of all those rusted nuts and bolts (even on pretty newish cars) gives me the willies. Exactly. My daily drive is a personal UK import (brought over at a relatively young age, and from the South East where gritting is less common) has got spotty corrosion on fasteners and the odd bare nut. This is despite being a gal body car with aluminium suspension, and having lived a charmed life since coming into my ownership. The garage-mate of my car is an Aust del. version of the same vehicle, and after a judicious cleaning with a couple of wheel ramps and a jet washer, gleams underneath like a new 'un. This, despite spending part of it's life parked outside about 3 blocks from the beach in Manly, where I picked it up You cannot undo 30 years of British Winters, no matter how many zeroes are taken off. An Australian delivered, garaged 911 of the same vintage is easily worth more than the difference in asking price. In fact, I would rather drive a LHD Californian car (with Californian history, natch) than a UK car of unknown provenance and rust status. If you really a UK supersport model, though, well, be prepared to pay extra for a super-clean model, or one that has verifiable rust repairs already done. I think there is one for sale in WA at the moment that looks OK. Remember, rust never sleeps, and there is no such thing as 'just a little surface rust'. They rust from the inside out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrisBlau Posted 10December, 2012 Report Share Posted 10December, 2012 Im glad everyone on this forum had the time and resources to buy a mint, Australian Delivered, 3.2 Carrera that had been sitting in a moisture controlled environment for the last 30 years. In fact, if anyone is interested there is a sc at the classic throttle shop for over $100k. 'Unique' as it is purple in colour. Go figure. My 3.2 was from the UK and it was around quarter of that price OTR. Yes it has its faults, but hey I will have a bunch of fun fixing it. I agree about the comments on rust, but a little common sense and a PPI goes a long way. Cheers Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 10December, 2012 Report Share Posted 10December, 2012 Im glad everyone on this forum had the time and resources to buy a mint, Australian Delivered, 3.2 Carrera that had been sitting in a moisture controlled environment for the last 30 years. In fact, if anyone is interested there is a sc at the classic throttle shop for over $100k. 'Unique' as it is purple in colour. Go figure. My 3.2 was from the UK and it was around quarter of that price OTR. Yes it has its faults, but hey I will have a bunch of fun fixing it. I agree about the comments on rust, but a little common sense and a PPI goes a long way. Cheers Ed Yep, I bought a UK delivered Carrera 3.0. Very Little Rust and what there was of it I repaired with metal correctly. Had been in Australia since the late 80's. If someone were to low ball me on price just because its an import I'd tell them to find a better one..................... As time goes on, condition will close the gap between Oz vs UK delivered vehicles.In particular the rarer models with short production runs. I have viewed over 10 Oz Delivered 911's to buy (SC's and C 3.2's) and they had poor accident damage repair issues, poor or no maintenance history, RUST. And they were asking good money..............so Buy on condition regardless of the cars origin. and Classic Throttle Shop's SC, well if you want a mint, low K, survivor then a premium can be commanded..............Collector car prices. CTS start high and can come down. You cant go up if you start lower So, either research and learn these cars inside out and buy from your learnings and/or get a thorough PPI from an expert, as you say its common sense. Funny thing about common sense though, is that its not that common..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 10December, 2012 Report Share Posted 10December, 2012 >poor or no maintenance history, RUST Where was the rust on the Oz delivered cars? Do they rust from the bottom up like the UK cars, or from the top down (windscreen surrounds, floorpans from drainage, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babalouie Posted 10December, 2012 Report Share Posted 10December, 2012 Oz delivered cars seem to not really suffer much at all. The most rust I've seen on an aussie car (excluding longhoods) is a Carrera 3.0, which had rust in the base of the firewall (basically behind the pedals where the front crossmember bolts to). But then again Carrera 3.0s are before full gavanisation, which makes a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted 10December, 2012 Report Share Posted 10December, 2012 A good import could save you some $$$ initially but will be harder to shift when the time comes to sell or trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepo Posted 11December, 2012 Report Share Posted 11December, 2012 Hi Simon, I would think your Moss Green Baby is reasonably priced at $42k and a great story if you got back in the seat (presuming Oz delivered and in good shape following a PPI). In 11 years, it's done around 6000 km per year and if serviced properly, motor should still be strong. Check service records to see if the new owner attended to the suspension and gearbox issues you knew about. Does the history show a service every 12 months with major every 2yrs or 20,000km? My 3.2 has 260,000km on the clock and the engine is still strong and reliable (always serviced & maintained). I know of another forum member that is at 300,000km and going strong. If your thinking about "hanging out for a sub 100km car"; as the Kerrigans would say..... I think your dreamin. If you find an Oz del 3.2 coupe under 100,000km, I'd expect the pricing to be more like $60k +. An imported car may save you money but be prepared to do your homework so you get the best car possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonk Posted 11December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 11December, 2012 Sorry guys, typo in my first post. I meant sub 200,000kms not 100,000km. My thought was that if I hang out for a car with say 170kms then theoretically it would have a lot more life left in it than the green one before a rebuild was required. But as most of you have said kms aren't that important anyway. So...the wife is now on board an I'llbe making the call shortly to inquire about my old girl. For the PPI, has anyone got any suggestions. The car looks to be near New Castle but the ad says it can be viewed in Sydney so I'm sure a Sydney workshop would be fine. Thanks again everyone for all the advise. I'm trying not to get too excited in case she turns out to have copped too much abuse. I'llkeep you all posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonk Posted 14December, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 14December, 2012 Well I had a chat with the owner and it sounds promising. It sounded like the two owners after me have taken good care of it and had all issues rectified by reputable workshops. It's booked in for a PPI on Monday so fingers crossed I'll have my old girl parked under the Christmas tree shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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