New member and potential 997 / 991 buyer...

[GrantS]

Hi everyone, i am long time reader of the forum and a life long Porsche enthusiast. I am looking to buy my first P-car and considering the 997 Gen 2. These look like great value now with base Carrera PDKs with good history and condition (well based on ad!) now down to a bit over $100k. A 991 is potential too as they come down a little in price. 

Car is to be daily drive, only about 15km each way in light traffic and minimal family duties as we have a LR Discovery fo that. I'm hoping for some owner / experienced views on the usability of a 911 as a second family car...Has to be PDK as my wife doesn't drive man and i dont like an auto (997.1). DFI engine is attractive too in the 997.2

1) Are they actually roomy enough for a 9 and 7 year old to come on weekend jaunts? i'm a little worried that if too small we will always end taking the the Disco which then kind of defeats the purpose! A few years ago I had a M135i, great car but at that stage kids were in child seats which made it almost unusable with seat pushed back to my driving posi. 

2) Is 3k or so enough annual maintenance budget for these cars? 

3) Thoughts on usability / reliability of 997.2 vs 991.1? I have read all the stuff on the 997 being more mechanical etc but if i'm begin honest I'd be so happy with both it likely wont matter! More interested in ownership costs etc

Can't believe I'd say this here but my other option is a much newer M4 for the same money, which is roomier, more up to date etc, but obviously is NOT a 911. to go with head or heart....

thanks everyone and looking forward to more discussion on the forum,

Grant 

[Ozvino]

Wow, grab the popcorn and watch this thread.

My feedback -

Suggest you need to get your head around do you really want a 911 or an alternate modern sedan (i.e. M4). Do that soul searching first and be very clear in your mind what you want. Drive a couple of cars, kick some tyres and be sure what car you are looking for. A 911 is a very different proposition to an M car, yes you can easily daily drive a 911 but its by no means a practical car.

I have had 7 Porsches and my current car is a 991.1 S - I specifically wanted a non turbo naturally aspirated car after test driving a 991.2 ( I was putting money down on a new T). The turbo isn't a car for me, that was a personal choice. I wanted a manual but they are like hens teeth - I settled on a PDK and I love it. The 991.1 S is a rocket, super fast, comfortable and as capable as any mainstream sports car on the road.

- The 991 is a modern, very fast, capable, reliable, vehicle. Its also larger than all of its predecessors and some people dont like that. You can feel the step up in tech/design with a 991.

- The 997 is a previous generation car and whilst some say its more analog, its an early 2000's design. Its very pure in its design and body shape.

The 911 is an interesting car that has evolved over the years. Some like that evolution, others dont. The silhouette has remained but the actual car has morphed significantly in 50 years. My advice is go and drive both a 997 and a 991 and pick the car thats right for you. The market for 997.2 cars is over inflated IMHO - not a lot were made, it was released at the time of the GFC and not many sold. Who knows, the 992.1 might suffer a similar fate. 

Buy a car that you love and appreciate - avoid the noise and fanboy banter on forums, its your money, pick what suits you. all 911's and M cars are great motor-vehicles. Also remember a 997 has depreciated, a 991 is still depreciating but a newer M car has a long way to fall still.

BTW - buyers market so you should do well whatever you choose

$3k/annum will cover you on maintenance.

 

[GrantS]

Thanks Ozvino for taking the time to rely your make some really great points...

I agree on 997.2 market being over inflated, certainly looks like that and I think it is because of PDK and no IMS, both of which open up ownership to a wider market..

Depreciation also rings true lot of loss left in an M4.  I wonder where a 997.2 will bottom out $80k? what about 991.1? similar? 

[flamingporsche]

Yes, a 9 & 7 year old will fit.  My 13 & 15 year olds squeeze in the back of my 996 - it's not for super-extended drives but definitely do-able for the family jaunt for a picnic etc.  I won't try to steer you one way or another regarding 997 v 991 - they're all great.  As a practical 2nd car??? perhaps not the greatest - but for a 3rd or 4th, definitely fits the bill. 

In some ways a boxster/cayman is more practical because of the boot space front & rear but those family drives are out of the question.  Conversely, the lack of passengers mean you can drive it "properly" all the time 

[Andy73]

Looking at Carsales today I'd honestly be looking at a 991.1 for the money. 997.2 pricing is inflated in my opinion. Don't get me wrong - I'm a big fan of the 997 - especially gen 2. If you find yourself weighing up a 997.2 S versus 991.1 base Carrera, maybe then there's an argument to be made in favour of the 997. 

I've driven both cars - not quite apples for apples as the 997 was a manual which was lovely! But i was well impressed with the 991 both in terms of comfort as a daily as well as dynamically. Drove it hard on unfamiliar twisties for a few hours and couldn't believe the grip. 

Only thing I'd say with the 991 is shoot for one with the Porsche sports exhaust as the stock exhaust is really quiet. Sports exhaust gives you the option of switching to quiet mode around town or binoculars mode when you get one it. Some may have the Porsche sport design steering wheel. If they don't have it, it's an easy upgrade. Personally, having a PDK car, id' never want to drive with those button shifters. 

All my opinion only of course! Either way, welcome to the fold. Hope you find a car you love!

[GrantS]

Thanks flamingporsche. 

Do you guys have a view on how accurate / realistic car sales prices are? For example a neat 991.1 PDK coupe

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2012-porsche-911-carrera-991-auto/SSE-AD-6475655/?Cr=3 for $130k (there a few around this price) but redbook lists these as between $99k and $109k

or for 997s, $108k but redbook lists as $80 - $89k?

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2011-porsche-911-carrera-997-series-ii-auto-my11/SSE-AD-6230154/?Cr=21

 

At 100k a 991 is a no brainer and within my budget, at $130 not so much.... 

 

[Andy73]

There's only one cheaper 991 than that on Carsales right now. I'd ignore the Red Book values. Never seen a 991 for 100-110K.

 

[Mik001]

Hi Grant 

I had a 997 S for a few years and it was a fun car however they aren’t worth the premium. There is bugger all room in the back , my 9 yr old boy didn’t like the car at all.   911‘S  really are 2 seaters with room for a bag in the back.   Others will probably disagree. 

991 model is a much more attractive proposition. The ride is nicer. Interior a big step up. 

I would get a 991 , keep it for 2 years then trade up to a GT3 .... it happens to all of us  

Good luck 

 

[t888]

There was a silver 991 on carsales recently that went down to around $115k + on road costs before moving. This is the cheapest I've seen. 

That said many optimistically priced 911s across 997.1 and 997.2 stay listed not just for months but for years. 

[hugh]

991.1 Carrera S, coupe, PDK with some tasty options @ low 100’s is presenting as great value at the moment. 

I’d say that the 991 still has some depreciation left on it where as 997 values will remain steady. So in terms of parking your money long term the 997 would be a better bet but the 991 is a much more refined car. Both are great, can’t really go wrong with either. 
 

In terms of practicality, a 911 is practical enough. You can make it work, don’t be too sensible or think about it too much. 

[Gavn]

Drive a 991, drive a 997.2. Which one feels better?  Which one causes you to look back just that one last time.  As above, they are very different to an M car so sort that out first.  A 991 may offer better value for trinkets/dollar ratio and if you're after refinement it's a step ahead.  The 997 is a little smaller and lines closer to earlier 911's (if that matters).  I personally feel that a 997 is a very different ownership proposition to a 991.  One is a modern classic (wrt design)...the other is a newer car that has had an owner or two.  Both fun - different flavours.

[sleazius]

I’ve got a 997 and a 991 at the moment. My 10 year old can fit in the 997 but prefers not to sit in the back if at all possible even though she can still fit. The 7 year old thinks it’s fun to be in the back as does the 5 year old. The big issue is how tall you are and your preferred driving position. I’m 6’1”, and I don’t have particularly long legs for my height, and although my 10 year old can still get in the car behind me (just), it is pretty uncomfortable for her.

If you’re trying to sell this to the wife by saying kids can fit in the back, forget it. Time to man up and do what the rest of us do in these situations...... tell the wife after you’ve bought it 

[GrantS]

Some great responses thanks everyone. I think I will try and drive a 991 over the next couple of months and see how I go, hopefully by years end there are a few coming down to around $120k which could make it doable. Seems like a pretty low risk 'buy and try' to me. 

I like your comment @hugh "don't be too sensible or overthink it too much" need to keep that front and center in the mind! 

I might start a 991 values thread, there doesn't seem to be one as yet. 

[edgy]

10 hours ago, sleazius said:

Time to man up and do what the rest of us do in these situations...... tell the wife after you’ve bought it 

 

And by that he means taken delivery.... not when you've just signed the contract, its not nice to rescind on those! Make sure she's over a barrel I guess was the bullet point.... 

[TwoHeadsTas]

40 minutes ago, edgy said:

 

And by that he means taken delivery.... not when you've just signed the contract, its not nice to rescind on those! Make sure she's over a barrel I guess was the bullet point.... 

be prepared for the costly quid pro quo........  expensive shopping trip coming up for her 🙂

[Lucky Phil]

11 hours ago, sleazius said:

Time to man up and do what the rest of us do in these situations...... tell the wife after you’ve bought it 

Don't do this. 

I did this once and it was while she was preparing dinner.  She was chopping up a cauliflower.  Lucky for me I told her while she was adding the Cauli to the pan.  A minute earlier she was chopping it.  Why I say this is a second after I told her the cauli hit me square in the middle of my head.  I still wonder if she would have had the same reaction if still chopping it.  The thought makes me shudder.  I have never bought a car without her involvement again. 

Oh and if you do decide to go down this path do it over a nice dinner in a public place after a wine or two, and I agree with @edgy make sure you have taken delivery.  I had to cancel my order and get my deposit back the next morning.

[edgy]

39 minutes ago, TwoHeadsTas said:

be prepared for the costly quid pro quo........  expensive shopping trip coming up for her 🙂

Part the reason I'm moving house, need more room for all the handbags, admittedly cars too 😛 no correlation..... 

25 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Don't do this. 

I did this once and it was while she was preparing dinner.  She was chopping up a cauliflower.  Lucky for me I told her while she was adding the Cauli to the pan.  A minute earlier she was chopping it.  Why I say this is a second after I told her the cauli hit me square in the middle of my head.  I still wonder if she would have had the same reaction if still chopping it.  The thought makes me shudder.  I have never bought a car without her involvement again. 

Oh and if you do decide to go down this path do it over a nice dinner in a public place after a wine or two, and I agree with @edgy make sure you have taken delivery.  I had to cancel my order and get my deposit back the next morning.

 

I get mad when I have to cook vegetables too! 

[wobaby]

ahahahah

those onions...... every time 😭

[wilson59]

I always treated driving with the family like the Covid 19 lock down which was essential travel only . I went for a two seater for the 911 it made sports car ownership much more enjoyable 

[sleazius]

No vegetables land on my head, its definitely more of the eye roll variety at this point. Although there usually follows a discussion about eternity rings or business class travel the following week - no correlation of course. The trick is to just go with it, that way no road blocks get thrown in your face when it comes time to spend 4(0)x as much on a toy.

I can also highly recommend a 300sqm shed for when you absolutely need something to appear 6 months from now rather than today.

All very healthy signs of a relationship 

[kov]

22 hours ago, factory said:

Hi everyone, i am long time reader of the forum and a life long Porsche enthusiast. I am looking to buy my first P-car and considering the 997 Gen 2. These look like great value now with base Carrera PDKs with good history and condition (well based on ad!) now down to a bit over $100k. A 991 is potential too as they come down a little in price. 

Car is to be daily drive, only about 15km each way in light traffic and minimal family duties as we have a LR Discovery fo that. I'm hoping for some owner / experienced views on the usability of a 911 as a second family car...Has to be PDK as my wife doesn't drive man and i dont like an auto (997.1). DFI engine is attractive too in the 997.2

1) Are they actually roomy enough for a 9 and 7 year old to come on weekend jaunts? i'm a little worried that if too small we will always end taking the the Disco which then kind of defeats the purpose! A few years ago I had a M135i, great car but at that stage kids were in child seats which made it almost unusable with seat pushed back to my driving posi. 

2) Is 3k or so enough annual maintenance budget for these cars? 

3) Thoughts on usability / reliability of 997.2 vs 991.1? I have read all the stuff on the 997 being more mechanical etc but if i'm begin honest I'd be so happy with both it likely wont matter! More interested in ownership costs etc

Can't believe I'd say this here but my other option is a much newer M4 for the same money, which is roomier, more up to date etc, but obviously is NOT a 911. to go with head or heart....

thanks everyone and looking forward to more discussion on the forum,

Grant 

welcome to the 911 hunt, I too was a long time Porsche enthusiast, my fascination started with the lines of the 993 coupe many moons ago!

Anyway late last year I sold my low k E92 M3 and started hunting around for a 996/997 manual, coming from a BMW there was a slight temptation to take the easy way out and get a much newer M4 for the same money, which is roomier, more up to date etc, but obviously is NOT a 911 !!

I went and test drove a couple of manual 996's which are now excellent bang for buck, however my heart really wanted a 997.

I  contemplated for a bit to wait for the 997.2 PDK to drop in price and funnily enough when I stopped looking (what sometimes felt like an hourly ritual on carsales) one Friday night I noticed a nice black manual 997..

I went and looked at it on the Monday and picked it up on the Friday.

As many have said on here once you get a good feel for the owner and his car sometimes you just know its the one

ill let my grin give you some inspiration, good luck with the hunt!!

Cheers Kris