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Joey888

urgent advice: MY11 997 GTS value?

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Hi all

Need some help urgently to determine a value before I buy a car:

MY2011, reg 2011

3.8 997 Carrera GTS

odo 40k 

Full service history from OPC

Been on P warranty until early this year.

white paint, minimal wear and tear, no aftermarket changes.

Has had an OPC 111 check. Amber findings: coolant level low below min, both cat heat shields excessively corroded and insecure, rear wheels (bridgestone potenza n1 305/30/19) bald on inner edges, spare tyre sealant expired. (Doesnt have centre lock wheels; just standard).

 

Need to decide quick as there are several people interested...

 

Redbook is saying *Private Price Guide    $110,800 - $122,200. Which seems too low to me?

The only other figure I can find is https://classicthrottleshop.com/2011-porsche-911-997-carrera-gts/  listed for $199,995 in june 20. 32k km, white.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks in advance!

Jo

 

 

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Found another couple historical values:

MY2011 997 Series II GTS MY11    $179,000    odo-23,000 kms    Coupe    listed 10 /2014

MY2011 Carrera GTS 997 Series II Manual    $157,500 odo-51,569 km    Coupe   listed 2 /2016

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My 2011GTS. Has standard wheel bolts, they were a factory option and my opinion easier to live with than centre locks, From memory there were only 23 GTS cars imported into Aus, although I stand to be corrected.

The faults you listed are minimal and can be easily rectified, Price???  $150k 

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I am assuming you are referring to a car in Aus (and Aus delivered?)? Checking given your profile says UK, and you have mentioned lately buying a UK car and bringing here? (You also noted corrosion on exhaust shields... UK?)

If so, 997 GTS will be very hard to benchmark price in Aus, as there were so few delivered, and so few ever come to market. First thing to do IMHO, is ignore Redbook pricing.  Redbook is so far off for general 911 models, let alone cars with such few examples. I can't say that I recall the 2 for sale you quoted in 2014 and 2016, but there have not been many for sale in the 3/4 years at all. 

4 hours ago, Joey888 said:

The only other figure I can find is https://classicthrottleshop.com/2011-porsche-911-997-carrera-gts/  listed for $199,995 in june 20. 32k km, white.

 

This car has been for sale for quite some time, and at $200k it made it more expensive on occasion than a couple of the lower priced 991GTS's that were for sale. And there is one 991 GTS at the moment for $199k (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2015-porsche-911-4-gts-991-auto-awd-my16/SSE-AD-6664535/?Cr=0).  Either way, the 997GTS at CTS seems to be now sold (only in last few days).

A couple of important distinctions:

Are you referring to a Coupe or Cabriolet?

Manual or PDK?

I believe if it is the most desired spec, ie. Coupe and Manual - then it would be so rare Aus delivered, that you would just have to pay whatever you think it's worth to you. You probs won't see another one for a very long time. I would think $160-$200 would have to be the range, but there are not enough comparable sales to benchmark. Those items in the OPC check seem minor, and I have never seen an Aus GTS without Centrelocks. I know it's more practical without them, but it kind of devalues it a little for me, as it's one of the GTS signature attractive features.

Good luck with the car and deciding 

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4 hours ago, luzzo said:

I am assuming you are referring to a car in Aus (and Aus delivered?)? Checking given your profile says UK, and you have mentioned lately buying a UK car and bringing here? (You also noted corrosion on exhaust shields... UK?)

If so, 997 GTS will be very hard to benchmark price in Aus, as there were so few delivered, and so few ever come to market. First thing to do IMHO, is ignore Redbook pricing.  Redbook is so far off for general 911 models, let alone cars with such few examples. I can't say that I recall the 2 for sale you quoted in 2014 and 2016, but there have not been many for sale in the 3/4 years at all. 

This car has been for sale for quite some time, and at $200k it made it more expensive on occasion than a couple of the lower priced 991GTS's that were for sale. And there is one 991 GTS at the moment for $199k (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2015-porsche-911-4-gts-991-auto-awd-my16/SSE-AD-6664535/?Cr=0).  Either way, the 997GTS at CTS seems to be now sold (only in last few days).

A couple of important distinctions:

Are you referring to a Coupe or Cabriolet?

Manual or PDK?

yes was referring to the value of the car in Aus (it will be UK delivered, but I was just going to take 20% off Aus value for an approximate import value).

Its a coupe and PDK. I dont know why but cabs put me off; just not my thing.

Yes I think the fact there have been so few sold in Aus makes it hard for me to get a solid valuation. Plus the CTS one threw me a bit as it was much higher than what I was thinking...

I agree with you re: centre locking. More practical BUT some (most?) buyers arent looking for practical, they want bragging rights.

6 hours ago, WB997.2GTS said:

My 2011GTS. Has standard wheel bolts, they were a factory option and my opinion easier to live with than centre locks, From memory there were only 23 GTS cars imported into Aus, although I stand to be corrected.

The faults you listed are minimal and can be easily rectified, Price???  $150k 

Thank you; that around about what I was thinking (150-160).

I'm thinking that its probably going to be the case that I need to just buy it if I want to drive the car. Its looking around about a break even proposition at this point, with the potential for an upside. 

I wonder if 997 GTS values will bottom out in the next few years?

Do you think buying a manual GTS 997 is risky? Given there are none (maybe 1 imported already) in Australia, so the parts for servicing might not be common? Or are all the parts shared with other models available in Aus?

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9 minutes ago, Mik001 said:

Uk import 120k max 

would be hard to move on if you ever had too 

confirms my estimate (80% of 150k)

Thanks for sharing your knowledge all

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You must be referring to the Silverstone Auction in the UK with the 35 Porsche's end of August.

 

Some nice cars in there.

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“Do you think buying a manual GTS 997 is risky? Given there are none (maybe 1 imported already) in Australia, so the parts for servicing might not be common? Or are all the parts shared with other models available in Aus?”

The GTS has a slightly more powerfull engine/tune, along with some trim features as standard that were optional on an “S” otherwise it’s the same car, except for the GTS badges. If for any reason there is an oddball part they can usually be sauced out of Germany in a week. 

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"Do you think buying a manual GTS 997 is risky? Given there are none (maybe 1 imported already) in Australia"

There are Australian delivered manual 997GTS in Aus, my neighbour used to own one, which I have driven. He has since sold it...and yes, he regrets doing so.

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8 hours ago, Scott930 said:

"Do you think buying a manual GTS 997 is risky? Given there are none (maybe 1 imported already) in Australia"

There are Australian delivered manual 997GTS in Aus, my neighbour used to own one, which I have driven. He has since sold it...and yes, he regrets doing so.

I'd take off at least 20% for a UK-delivered car.  They are much harder to sell and it's amazing how the rust appears, even on modern galvanised cars (ask me how I know!!).

Until recently I had a 997 GTS so I followed the market quite closely.  I believe there are 2-3 Aussie delivered manuals in the country plus a couple of UK imports.   Autohaus sold a manual 997 GTS about six months ago for $210k (without even needing to advertise it).   

I'd say that immaculate low km Aussie-delivered PDK cars sell for $170k - $190k.  The car at CTS sold last week for ~$180k.  There was an 80,000 km car for sale in VIC back in April 2019 and the owner was asking $156k. 

 

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wow ok, going to have another look at the manual GTS's for sale...

reassuring to know that I wouldnt have any problems re servicing/parts

the dealer trying to sell this car wants me to (1) buy it without test driving, as due to covid they arent doing test drives, (2) is discouraging me from doing a prepurchase inspection with a p specialist because of the recent OPC 111-point check (but I want to be 100% sure, and these checks seem to be highly dependent on the technician doing it) and (3) has told me I wont be able to talk to the OPC about the prepurchase inspection that was done due to data protection laws.

Not happening

Probably going to get sold to someone else today as they are viewing it, and according to this dealer they are happy to buy considering all of the above.

 

4 hours ago, npvpositive said:

I'd take off at least 20% for a UK-delivered car.  They are much harder to sell and it's amazing how the rust appears, even on modern galvanised cars (ask me how I know!!).

Yeah I've seen that; suprised by the rust present on some of these cars. Thats what I'm going to ask them to mostly focus on (apart from the usual mechanical and electrical soundness) in my pre purchase inspection. I figure if I buy a minimally rusted car, in a relatively rare variant, maintain it 100% (incl oil change and inspection for rust yearly, early treatment of any rusting), then I'll at least not lose huge amounts. I've had one dealer in oz tell me that he would be interested in buying the car off me for himself so he could use it on the track as a relatively 'cheap' p car.

16 hours ago, Frank said:

You must be referring to the Silverstone Auction in the UK with the 35 Porsche's end of August.

 

Some nice cars in there.

yes including a nice looking gts manual! will be taking a closer look

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“the dealer trying to sell this car wants me to (1) buy it without test driving, as due to covid they arent doing test drives, (2) is discouraging me from doing a prepurchase inspection with a p specialist because of the recent OPC 111-point check (but I want to be 100% sure, and these checks seem to be highly dependent on the technician doing it) and (3) has told me I wont be able to talk to the OPC about the prepurchase inspection that was done due to data protection laws.”

Reminds me of that TV show with the dodgy car dealer Arthur Dailey & Terry (Dennis Waternan) 
I”d take a couple of deep breaths, think about and WALK 

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 Are some car dealers, especially higher end stuff, on drugs or what? Would they buy a car like that sight unseen without a PPI? 

"Nah she'll be right mate. It's a good jigger this one/I'd buy it for myself but.../just buy the thing and forget about any problems/they're cheap to fix/we're a reputable company who has morals to protect the customer...blah blah blah..."

 If in doubt, DON'T! 

 

 

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I’ve seen and read some absolute horror stories about UK cars.

Personally I would never buy one and would never, never never buy one without an inspection. That is my personal preference and I know others are ok with them.

For a dealer to suggest what they are suggesting is ridiculous. As @LeeM said .. imagine ringing to sell them your car and saying “ you dont need to see it .. she’s a good one. Just deposit the money and pick it up”

I have bought a number of cars sight unseen and have always bought the seller as well as the car.

Here is some light reading ... had the 111 point inspection from a Porsche centre. Now this is an extreme case but some are suspecting collusion or the car was a different one getting inspected ..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/798211-porsche-approved-rusty-carrera-3-2-a.html

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25 minutes ago, Dreamr said:

Here is some light reading ... had the 111 point inspection from a Porsche centre.

That instils trust in the UK dealer network.

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yeah once I got past the 'I just want this car!' feeling, I could see that what he was saying was ridiculous. I think he just wanted a quick sale and knew he had someone else that was likely to buy it, so if he couldnt get a quick/easy sale from me he just wanted me to piss off

Had my first test drive of a 911 yesterday (MY11 GTS PDK) and came away with a few thoughts... the back seats are truly tiny.... I dont understand how people are saying that they are fitting normal sized adults back there? I'm not big, but I couldnt sit upright and wouldnt last more than 5 minutes in the back seat. I'm starting to think twice about it now, as I need to be able to fit two kids back there occasionally (1y and 3y).

I also think I need to get a manual. Its such a strong part of what I enjoy about driving a fun car. The PDK I just felt like I was missing something...

Rust is a problem. I think if I bought something that old over here I'd need to figure out whether all the rust could be removed and coated to prevent any further rusting. Even our 11 month old BMW has rusting on the edges of the brake discs.

Dealer thought I could buy it, use it for a year, sell it through a dealer and lose approx £4000 in the process (perhaps a bit optimistic? Maybe £6000 would be more realistic). Which is tempting, given it would cost us a minimum of £2000 to lease a car for a year

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On 10/07/2020 at 02:55, Dreamr said:

wow that is horrific. I wonder what the outcome was in the end? Maybe its still going through the legal system...

I think it was partly due to differences in expectations. It seems that over here it is expected that cars will rust. the dealership I went to yesterday only deal in high end cars. Bentley, Ferrari, Mclarens... Dealer (I think he was one of the partners) seemed to be saying that all of the cars in the showroom would be looking similar to the 997 I was looking at in terms of rust. Certainly just looking in through the wheels of some of the cars they all had varying degrees of rust

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What you have said above is why Australian delivered cars are sought after by RHD countries ... cause our expectations are no rust ..

The same way cars from California are sought after ... good weather and no rust ..

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On 10/07/2020 at 02:55, Dreamr said:

Here is some light reading ... had the 111 point inspection from a Porsche centre. Now this is an extreme case but some are suspecting collusion or the car was a different one getting inspected ..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/798211-porsche-approved-rusty-carrera-3-2-a.html

Wow what an epic thread.

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