987.2 Boxster Track Build - The little 2.9 that could

[Gavn]

1 hour ago, rego said:

Went out to a Trackschool day at Wakefield today and managed to turn a 1:09.36 which was a but slower than expected but I had a ton of fun driving the car, the extra weight compared to the MX5 is far more noticable at Wakefield than SMSP which is something I need to get used to.

I had one of the instructors go out and turn a lap for me to get some reference data plus feedback on the car, he took it pretty easy and managed a 1:08.56 (after doing a 1:08.63 the previous lap) and said that if he pushed it (using kerbs, driving more aggressively) the car could pretty easily go into the 7's.

His feedback was that the car was well balanced but really needed the traction control completely disabled as it is interfering very badly in accelerating out of the tight corners causing a ton of lost lap time which was my thought as well but I wasn't 100% sure that it wasn't just me taking shitty lines causing the PSM to intervene despite it being 'off' so it was validating to get that feedback.

I think I'm going to leave traction control as-is for the moment and when the diff comes in a few weeks I'll also put a switch on the yaw sensor to allow me to completely disable traction control as I won't have any use for it anymore (it's currently braking the inside tyre on tight corners to make up for the lack of diff).

I'm absolutely loving the new Race Studio 3 beta that allows side by side video analysis, it definitely makes it easy to compare laps and visualise where I'm going wrong, I uploaded a video showing it working comparing my lap with the instructors (it cuts off the video just before the end as you can see which is a bit annoying but the last half second isn't that important anyway).

I still think the Racelogic is superior at the moment in video analysis but I've been an AIM user for a long time so I'm much more comfortable using the software which is a big thing for me as I can break laps down in a few minutes these days and figure out where I'm losing time.

There are a bunch of mistakes in my driving like braking too early and double pumping the throttle on occasion but It's pretty clear looking at the data and GPS traces that the biggest loss was on turn 5 where I'm turning in a bit too early which is a mistake that carries all the way to the fish hook so that is something that I am working on addressing.

Heading out again next Monday so hopefully can sort some issues out and get the time down.

Looks great - if you're at Wakey on Monday, I'll catch you then (have a client out in the morning but might get a chance to play in the afternoon).

[rego]

23 hours ago, Gavin (CliffToCoast) said:

Looks great - if you're at Wakey on Monday, I'll catch you then (have a client out in the morning but might get a chance to play in the afternoon).

Awesome mate, looking forward to catching up.

[550Spyder]

Rego

i am late to the party on this thread. Doesn’t seem that long ago you were referring 987.2s for me before accidentally buying this one.

can you post some decent photos on the harness bar interface to the std hoops. Is it a clean job or hard to disguise it has been welded?

assume bottom harness are off bolt in eyelets into the std mount points or have you drilled new eyelet mount holes with the screw in underside backplate. Are you running a crotch strap or just 4 point?

what was the cost of the harness bar fitted?

[Pork Chops]

Dude I got one of these in NZ. I've lowered it, adjustable suspension, louder pipe, wheels / tyres.  I've tracked the crap out of it back in March.  4 tracks in the South Island and about 3,000 klms of FAST road driving in 10 days.  Done a few track days at Hampton Downs too.  Can't say enough good things about them.  An absolute blast and frankly I was looking for a Cayman too but I reckon the Boxster is better.  It's a ragtop-first chassis and it's more than good enough and you get all the benefits of roof down motoring which is a gas.  In fact I've done every track day with the roof down including in the rain.  They absolutely rock and I'm so glad to see someone else who's onto them.  Cheers.

 

 

 

[rego]

12 hours ago, 550Spyder said:

Rego

i am late to the party on this thread. Doesn’t seem that long ago you were referring 987.2s for me before accidentally buying this one.

can you post some decent photos on the harness bar interface to the std hoops. Is it a clean job or hard to disguise it has been welded?

assume bottom harness are off bolt in eyelets into the std mount points or have you drilled new eyelet mount holes with the screw in underside backplate. Are you running a crotch strap or just 4 point?

what was the cost of the harness bar fitted?

Yeh, has been a quick process to get to here!

Here is a zoomed in photo of where it was welded on, unfortunately the seat belt is in the way of the top part in this photo but I can take a better photo later in the week if you want one.


I think they did a great job of it and PR Tech had an in-house fabricator do the work. It's obvious that it's been added as that small black section is on the bar but I don't think it will stand out too much when the stock seat goes back inside the car and it doesn't restrict movement of the seat because it sits flush with the carpet just above the 'hump'.

The harness it is a 6 point, on previous cars I used eye bolts and clips but as I had a 996 GT3 seat I just purchased a 986/987 Porsche specific HANS belt which  allowed us to use the seat mounting locations for the crotch straps and the sub strap mounting to the seat using the Porsche harness sub mount bar they sell for the GT3 sliders (996.521.933.90) which moves up and down when you slide the seat so you don't have to adjust the sub strap when you slide the seat or have it too loose/tight.

Not sure on the cost exactly as it was in with all of the rest of the work.

4 hours ago, Pork Chops said:

Dude I got one of these in NZ. I've lowered it, adjustable suspension, louder pipe, wheels / tyres.  I've tracked the crap out of it back in March.  4 tracks in the South Island and about 3,000 klms of FAST road driving in 10 days.  Done a few track days at Hampton Downs too.  Can't say enough good things about them.  An absolute blast and frankly I was looking for a Cayman too but I reckon the Boxster is better.  It's a ragtop-first chassis and it's more than good enough and you get all the benefits of roof down motoring which is a gas.  In fact I've done every track day with the roof down including in the rain.  They absolutely rock and I'm so glad to see someone else who's onto them.  Cheers.

 

 

 

That's awesome, likewise I'm loving seeing someone else enjoying one of these things!

Agree they are definitely a good combination car. I think an Elise would probably be a better track car for the $ but as a car you can drive long distances comfortably and still have a ball on the track I don't think you can beat one of these for the money.

[rego]

Got out to SMSP South circuit today with the BMW club, managed a 1:03.99 so I just eeked into the 1:03’s getting me to 10th on the day out of 62.

 

 

 

This is the first track I have been slower than my MX5 but it was also the track where the lack of an LSD showed up the most, PSM was intervening everywhere despite being 'off' which was sort of disappointing but somewhat expected due to how much you need to load the car in corners to do times at South Circuit and the tight nature of it.

Unfortunately the video corrupted on the SD card so my video is not to be either. Next week is the week  as the Drexler diff goes in and I get a fresh set of A050’s put on the car ready for the BMW/Porsche GP circuit day on the 31st!!

 

After 5 track days post some info on a couple of things I’ve got some opinions on in my short life with this car

Titanium lug bolts:

I am one of those people that removes wheels after every track day to inspect the wheels for cracks as I have had issues in the past with track wheels cracking and I’m a bit of a safety freak.

I changed to titanium lug bolts mainly for the looks (no rust) but something I have noticed is a lot of thread galling on the bolts so I’m going to go back to the OEM Porsche bolts and just use the titanium bolts when I’m using street wheels where I want the car to look pretty. Not sure I would really recommend titanium bolts to anyone with a track car based on what I’ve seen.

Camber on with R-Specs & Tyre wear:

I think I can give my initial thoughts on camber and tyre wear with R-Spec tyres given I've just gone through my first set of tyres, I’m currently running Hankook Z221’s which are due for replacement with uneven wear on the rear being the primary reason.

At the front with GT3 LCA’s max camber was -2.7degrees which appears to be slightly insufficient as the outside of the tyre is wearing a bit more than the inside. The difference isn’t massive and it can be evened out by flipping the tyre halfway through its life, but the car could still use another -0.3 degrees or so which will necessitate front camber plates which is my next step.

At the rear the car currently has needs a LOT more camber, probably .5 degrees or more to extend beyond the -2.5 it’s currently running as the outside edge is blistering pretty badly. I flipped the tyre after 2 track days but even after flipping it the other outside edge has just been destroyed.

I know my MX5 needed over 3 degrees of camber on Z221 and A050’s so I’m expecting to be well into the 3’s when I get this car dialled in, I’ll update this thread with the final settings I end up with. At a minimum though It’s pretty clear that front & rear GT3 LCA’s are basically mandatory if youwant decent R-Spec Tyre life and maybe even front camber plates in addition (probably an obvious statement to many)

Here is a photo of the outside edge blistering I saw on just the first day at SMSP GP:

 

[edgy]

I am not such a fan of South Circuit... not in a big heavy late model 911 anyway. 

On the tyre wear, its interesting, as I was in the opposite boat, I started with aggressive camber settings but found ourselves dialling it out to approximately mid 2's which seemed optimal... 

[rego]

1 hour ago, edgy said:

I am not such a fan of South Circuit... not in a big heavy late model 911 anyway. 

On the tyre wear, its interesting, as I was in the opposite boat, I started with aggressive camber settings but found ourselves dialling it out to approximately mid 2's which seemed optimal... 

haha I'm the opposite, I LOVE South Circuit! I think that's because I come from the MX5 world though and it was the only place I could beat some Porsche's on 😁

I like it so much that I even made a tutorial 4 years ago for South Circuit which has over 3,000 views, a couple of people yesterday said they'd seen that and it helped them.

Your feedback on camber seems consistent with what some other people have said too with Porsche's but I was deep into the -3 range both front and rear on my MX5 which was a considerably lighter car and I'm normally easier on tyres than most people (I'd often get 8 or 9 days out of a set of Z221's or A050's).

I have inner, middle and outer pyrometer readings from every session I've done so far with the Boxster other than south circuit yesterday and the temps seemed to be relatively even on the front, but on the rear it was usually hotter on the outside and to an increased degree on the rear right at SMSP GP and rear left at Wakefield which is to be expected based on track direction. The maximum temperature I recorded was 81c on the outside rear right after a session on SMSP GP (I usually only do 1 warm up and 2-3 hot laps before pitting with no cooldown lap so I get correct temps). I also know on the MX5 I used to get even tyre wear with slightly less temp on the outside of the tyre than the inside/middle which is the opposite of what I'm seeing here.

The blistering may be caused by the car running Z221 softs which in my experience are somewhere between an A050 Soft and Medium in hardness (I wanted mediums but they were out of stock when purchasing due to Covid) and exceeding the tyres operating temperature range, however based on the fact that the tyres exhibited the same wear pattern after just being flipped on a day at Wakefield that had an 8 to 11 degree ambient temperature (I should take ground temps but don't) and the tyres exhibiting a normal wear pattern across the rest of the tyre, I am still of the opinion that it's a lack of camber that is the root cause but the compound is probably somewhat responsible for the degree at which it's worn on the edge.
 

Here's the video I made on South Circuit I mentioned:

 

[edgy]

MX5 + South Circuit makes sense! That would be fun.. 

Personally, I'd hold off on the camber changes prior to GP circuit and see how you go with the LSD & A050 mediums, I definitely got the blistering like you when I ran A050 'soft'

If it is not too late (and assuming you're not already doing it) a nice tyre wear management strategy that worked well for me was to have the tyres pre-scrubbed... they were more consistent and wore better, I found. 

PS - What are your sway bar settings? 

 

The Porsche/BMW  Sprint is always a fun one... 

[rego]

3 hours ago, edgy said:

MX5 + South Circuit makes sense! That would be fun.. 

Personally, I'd hold off on the camber changes prior to GP circuit and see how you go with the LSD & A050 mediums, I definitely got the blistering like you when I ran A050 'soft'

If it is not too late (and assuming you're not already doing it) a nice tyre wear management strategy that worked well for me was to have the tyres pre-scrubbed... they were more consistent and wore better, I found. 

PS - What are your sway bar settings? 

 

The Porsche/BMW  Sprint is always a fun one... 

Thanks mate. The car went into PR Tech today to have the Diff fitted, PSM disabled, service, A050's etc.. and they are going to do a minor change to camber but not too much. Interesting to hear that you saw similar blistering!!

I was never sure about that service they do to wear the tyres in, I didn't get it done this time but I might get the guys at  Gordn Leven to do it next time I get a set.

For the sway bar setting I'm just using a normal Boxster/Cayman non-adjustable front sway bar (same bar is used up to the R I think) but the rear is a Tarett one and the setting I'm currently on is the second hole from soft (4 holes), I'm anticipating needing it to be a bit stiffer when the diff is in.

[rego]

The Diff is now in and a PSM disable switch installed using this guide (https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-forum/1186935-psm-disable-switch-install-987-2-a.html)

As usual PR Tech did a great job of finding a creative solution and they put the switch in the cigarette lighter area in the middle of the car to disable the PSM, good thing also is that I verified there is no light that stays on after I re-enable the PSM and it seems to just work as normal with a simple 'PSM Failure' message when it's off.

I had the opportunity to go and do some 'testing' of the car both in the dry(ish) as well as wet over the weekend and I have to say that the diff and PSM disable have transformed the car which I'm sure will be very noticeable on a dry track but was extremely striking on a wet road as the car no longer mutes inputs on the throttle when it detects wheelspin or performs brake vectoring when the back end starts coming out.

I was also impressed that there doesn't appear to be 'clunking' of the Drexler diff at low speed cornering like I've experienced with other clutch based differentials which required some friction modifier or specific oil to reduce.

ABS also is functioning when 'off' which was something I wanted to verify before I took the car to the track.

Will give my thoughts after I get a chance to track the car this weekend (hopefully in the dry) but for anyone looking to get rid of Porsche's electronic nannies this is the solution (also will save your rear brakes 😂)
 

Nice snap from last weekend as well.

[rego]

Thought I'd post some data around oil pressure as a shop that I considered going to were saying that I still need to put a sump baffle in a 987.2 due to oil pressure issues persisting in the 987.2 in high G corners. 

From the data I can see, I am pulling up to 1.47g and there appears to be no correlation between high g's and pressure drops with the changes appearing to be correlated to RPM or throttle position where I can see a drop when I get off the throttle for extended periods and consistent spikes to around 60 psi/4.1 bar when I blip down to second for turn 2 which spikes the car to  over 7k RPM and has a high amount of load on the engine.

The oil pressure on the car doesn't seem as high as the DFI cars but from what I found on the internet of other peoples data with the base 2.9 cars this seemed similar to the pressures they are getting.

 

Managed a 1:48.78 at the BMW/Porsche supersprint on Saturday which wasn't a PB but appears to be almost a second faster than the benchmark time for the Porsche Club of NSW where the previous benchmark time was a 1:49.71. It definitely wasn't the fastest day after all of the rain (speaking to others they were a couple of seconds off their usual pace) so hopefully next time with better track conditions and a change I've made to the rear sway bar I can put down a better time using this diff which made the car much easier to drive.

 

[edgy]

Nice one, the annual PCNSW + BMW might have been the last GP circuit event I ran (2018) I found it can be frustrating, what length sessions did they run? 

I'd say that Lotus cost you at least a second there on T11 😛 

Looking at the data, I think you can get full throttle a little earlier on T1, and the T2 line out hold the shoulder on exit to give you straighter shot @ 3 apex,

Some nice driving, and I am thoroughly enjoying following this journey! 

PS - I saw what Alex ran in his 718 s... its no longer a laughing matter taking a Boxster to the track is it now?

 

 

 

[rego]

1 hour ago, edgy said:

Nice one, the annual PCNSW + BMW might have been the last GP circuit event I ran (2018) I found it can be frustrating, what length sessions did they run? 

I'd say that Lotus cost you at least a second there on T11 😛 

Looking at the data, I think you can get full throttle a little earlier on T1, and the T2 line out hold the shoulder on exit to give you straighter shot @ 3 apex,

Some nice driving, and I am thoroughly enjoying following this journey! 

PS - I saw what Alex ran in his 718 s... its no longer a laughing matter taking a Boxster to the track is it now?

They said 10 minute sessions. To be honest I think it was run pretty well and grouped accurately, I enjoyed some good chats with @donR who I organised to share a garage with.

The only frustrating thing is I'm probably 50kw-150kw+ down on most people in my group so I got overtaken on every outlap except the last so my second lap was pretty much always compromised and if I try to leave space in front later in the session I'm susceptible to the same thing happening to me on the third lap.

You are 100% right about T1 and T2. I've been experimenting with a wider double apex at T2 vs a tighter line which is the fastest way round in the MX5. I think I need to maybe not be so tight so that I can stay further left on exit or just wait a bit longer so I can hug it like you say.

You can see in this data, compared to the previous 1:48.34 I did last time that I gave up about 0.8 of a second in T1 and entry of T2, as well as around 0.6 of a second due to my throttle lift just after corporate hill causing me to correct. There is much more time in the car, I just need to be more consistent.

 

Hope to see you out on the track sometime soon!

[edgy]

1 hour ago, rego said:

Hope to see you out on the track sometime soon!

For sure... it might not be the RS though at this rate, I’m feeling left out of the Boxster club 😂 

[rego]

44 minutes ago, edgy said:

For sure... it might not be the RS though at this rate, I’m feeling left out of the Boxster club 😂 

Jump on in, the waters warm 😁

[donR]

On 02/11/2020 at 17:06, edgy said:

Nice one, the annual PCNSW + BMW might have been the last GP circuit event I ran (2018) I found it can be frustrating, what length sessions did they run? 

I'd say that Lotus cost you at least a second there on T11 😛 

Looking at the data, I think you can get full throttle a little earlier on T1, and the T2 line out hold the shoulder on exit to give you straighter shot @ 3 apex,

Some nice driving, and I am thoroughly enjoying following this journey! 

PS - I saw what Alex ran in his 718 s... its no longer a laughing matter taking a Boxster to the track is it now?

 

 

 

I thought the sessions were a bit short for beginnners. I was getting 3 to 5 laps which after warming up  and a bit of traffic was really only 2 good laps at the most which isn't great if you don't know the track well and maybe 1 hour between sessions, but the timed categories did work pretty good and nice the mix of BMWs and Porsches made a great car show to look at.

Alex did a 1:47.39 in his boxster which is very impressive for a base car on a slow day! I had a quick chat to him and the only mods appeared to be semi-slick tyres. I notice he also drives a 3RS so I assume he is a good operator. 

Really impressive time from Dan as well in his 987 Boxter. 

[rego]

1 hour ago, donR said:

I thought the sessions were a bit short for beginnners. I was getting 3 to 5 laps which after warming up  and a bit of traffic was really only 2 good laps at the most which isn't great if you don't know the track well and maybe 1 hour between sessions, but the timed categories did work pretty good and nice the mix of BMWs and Porsches made a great car show to look at.

Alex did a 1:47.39 in his boxster which is very impressive for a base car on a slow day! I had a quick chat to him and the only mods appeared to be semi-slick tyres. I notice he also drives a 3RS so I assume he is a good operator. 

Really impressive time from Dan as well in his 987 Boxter. 

Yeh I can see what you mean about the short sessions.

718's are super impressive and I think they are the future. In a few years time when they've started hitting the straps in terms of depreciation I think I'll have a 718 S track car.

Just a base 718 with just a tune is bolt on 981 Cayman S power with all of the benefits of turbo vs N/A and an S/GTS with a tune is 718 GT4 power.

Saw your other thread looking for GT3 Buckets. Not sure on the situation for 718's but I'd look into just disabling the seat airbags and running normal race seats, I know in my 987 once the seat airbag was disabled I can swap my race seat with the stock seat and plug it in to still get full electric seat functions with the only drawback being that the seat airbag is disabled and the airbag light flashes 8 times every time I turn the car on before it turns off.

You can also just buy Audi sliders which are identical to the 996 sliders which I believe still fit the 718 and are far cheaper than the Porsche ones along with some Brey Krause mounts to mount on top of OEM porsche sliders. The part numbers for the sliders are Driver (RHD) 8N0881184 Passenger (RHD) 8N0881183. If you just wanted a drivers seat you could swap in and out you could buy a Velo seat, slider and mount for probably 1.5k (far cheaper than GT3 buckets).

I'll be offloading my GT3 seat soon as I don't really see the need to be wearing it out when I can just put a generic seat in.

[donR]

I agree a generic race seat is the way to go and a lot cheaper! My problem is I've been told legally I'm not meant to reduce the safety features on the car by installing a seat without a side airbag as it already comes with one. So it is a bit of a delema! 

[rego]

33 minutes ago, donR said:

I agree a generic race seat is the way to go and a lot cheaper! My problem is I've been told legally I'm not meant to reduce the safety features on the car by installing a seat without a side airbag as it already comes with one. So it is a bit of a delema! 

Yeh fair enough. For me it's a risk decision and I'm happy to compromise with just having door and steering wheel airbags.

To keep to the letter of the law you should also replace your Cup 2's after 1 or 2 track days given legal tread depths 😉

[edgy]

4 hours ago, donR said:

Alex did a 1:47.39 in his boxster which is very impressive for a base car on a slow day! I had a quick chat to him and the only mods appeared to be semi-slick tyres. I notice he also drives a 3RS so I assume he is a good operator. 

Yup, it's bloody impressive... yes on the 3RS, although I cant keep up with him, he changes GT cars like underwear! But a lovely down to earth guy, and good company, a good ambassador for the PCNSW motorsport fraternity IMO.  

[rego]

Got out for my first day of the year last weekend at a Trackschool event.

Great to be out on track but it was really hot at 36 degrees! So with no good times to be had I figured I'd take the opportunity to learn how to left foot brake in a real car after honing my skills in the virtual world over the past couple of months as well as try to fix up my trail braking.

Reviewing the data I seem to be slightly faster through T9 and T5 with left foot braking but through T3 I appear to be slower than right foot braking. In T10 I seem to have made a bunch of time with trail braking (surprisingly I was consistently faster by 0.2 seconds than my prior speeds on a cool day!)

 

I built a proper  sim rig in November and invested a ton of time into racing on iRacing, any one on the fence looking to improve their driving should definitely get one.

Currently hovering around 1500 - 1650 irating, pretty much exclusively racing the MX5's as I still don't feel solid enough to need a faster car and am still a fair way off the truly fast guys (have been in top split a few times and consistently  have my ass kicked!)

The only issue is that I am now hankering to buy a car to race wheel to wheel.

 

Probably the coolest thing that has happened is Fernando Alonso being put into the MX5 race I was in this week. He didn't bother qualifying and still came second with times nearly a second faster than the nearest competition!

 

[LeeM]

 It takes a while, but once you get used to left foot braking 100%, you'll never go back.

 Works a treat in the wet, as you can modulate the transition from braking to accelerating by getting on the gas with a little brake pressure and less wheelspin.

[edgy]

Nice work, I have been eyeing off the Track Racer Sim setups, I like the look of those, would you recommend it? 

[JWM]

5 minutes ago, edgy said:

Nice work, I have been eyeing off the Track Racer Sim setups, I like the look of those, would you recommend it? 

I’ve got the perfect spot in my new post-COVID home office for one of these, or an exercise bike...I know which one I need, but torn on which I want... 😂