STUTT’FEST 2022

[Pork Chops]

1 hour ago, Skidmarks said:

Just thinking but ... what about a 2 day event?

Same vibe, same amount of track time but more cars.

 

Let’s band together and buy a large piece of land near Winton, leave our wives and start a GT Car Commune. It will end like Waco, but will be well worth it. 
 

Think BIG.

[TwoHeadsTas]

1 hour ago, Skidmarks said:

Just thinking but ... what about a 2 day event?

Same vibe, same amount of track time but more cars.

 

That works 🙂

 

[Skidmarks]

4 minutes ago, TwoHeadsTas said:

That works 🙂

 

I’ve already asked the question of Winton ... 😇

[Carrera28]

1 hour ago, Skidmarks said:

Just thinking but ... what about a 2 day event?

Same vibe, same amount of track time but more cars.

 

Good way to help a rural community in (hopefully by then) the aftermath of Corona

[spiller]

This will be an unofficial Rennsport Reunion by the time it’s done! Why don’t we throw a bit of casual door to door in the mix too? Lotus guys used to do that at their meets at Wakefield and it always looked like amazing fun and very laid back.

[Skidmarks]

Update 

I have confirmed with Winton that both days are available and have put a hold on both days. 

My feeling is that we will do it which will mean that on each day we can get cars out of similar vintages/speeds and broaden the options for more participants.

Could it be a Rennsport type event?  Maybe but we need to make sure we maintain the laid back vibe.

As for a little “door to door”, far be it for me to deny those with the appropriate licences ... I’ll check the level of staffing for safety with Winton.

Maybe the race (or races depending on how many pony up and if we need to split them into a slower group [ let’s call that group “Rohan” for the sake of the exercise ] and a faster group [“Skids”] ) could be to finale on Sunday. If extra bodies are needed for safety etc and that increases costs then those racing would tip In more.

That said, I want to maintain the emphasis on it being a track day so the racing bit is a bit of a thought bubble for me ATM.

So, other than those who came this year who I assume are automatic starters, we’d need another 40 or so starters to have it make sense.

We came out pretty much square for this one.

I’m thinking classes like:

* 50’s and 60’s

* 70’s and 80’s

* 90’s and 00’s 

* modern, GT and race cars

We’d work on 20 minute sessions but could cut them back to 15 in the mornings and then open up to longer in the afternoon

Also keen on a show and shine on one of the days   

What’s the view?

 

[edgy]

7 minutes ago, Skidmarks said:

What’s the view?

God willing, I am so in!

I was actually thinking this 'should' be a 2 day event, so glad you thought of it too!! 

As for session times, I'd also be happy with more rotation & shorter session & ie 8-10 mins... even when they're longer at a sprint, I usually pull in earlier, but understand more rotations = less relaxed... perhaps even open pit format with time slots allocated to each run group? ie 9am-11am 50's & 60's and so on... 

[TwoHeadsTas]

19 minutes ago, Skidmarks said:

Update 

I have confirmed with Winton that both days are available and have put a hold on both days. 

My feeling is that we will do it which will mean that on each day we can get cars out of similar vintages/speeds and broaden the options for more participants.

Could it be a Rennsport type event?  Maybe but we need to make sure we maintain the laid back vibe.

As for a little “door to door”, far be it for me to deny those with the appropriate licences ... I’ll check the level of staffing for safety with Winton.

Maybe the race (or races depending on how many pony up and if we need to split them into a slower group [ let’s call that group “Rohan” for the sake of the exercise ] and a faster group [“Skids”] ) could be to finale on Sunday. If extra bodies are needed for safety etc and that increases costs then those racing would tip In more.

That said, I want to maintain the emphasis on it being a track day so the racing bit is a bit of a thought bubble for me ATM.

So, other than those who came this year who I assume are automatic starters, we’d need another 40 or so starters to have it make sense.

We came out pretty much square for this one.

I’m thinking classes like:

* 50’s and 60’s

* 70’s and 80’s

* 90’s and 00’s 

* modern, GT and race cars

We’d work on 20 minute sessions but could cut them back to 15 in the mornings and then open up to longer in the afternoon

Also keen on a show and shine on one of the days   

What’s the view?

 

Yep, like this concept better.  I'd stay with longer 20 min sessions in the morning, perhaps shorter in the afternoon for when we start to get tired, grumpy sunburnt and dehydrated.

Now that I've worked out what door to door means, I'd leave that open to anyone who wanted to, but probably not for me.  Perhaps these sessions could be later, and those not wanting to participate could help out with the additional safety requirements if that meets Winton;s requirements????

[Skidmarks]

6 minutes ago, TwoHeadsTas said:

Yep, like this concept better.  I'd stay with longer 20 min sessions in the morning, perhaps shorter in the afternoon for when we start to get tired, grumpy sunburnt and dehydrated.

Now that I've worked out what door to door means, I'd leave that open to anyone who wanted to, but probably not for me.  Perhaps these sessions could be later, and those not wanting to participate could help out with the additional safety requirements if that meets Winton;s requirements????

That’s very sensible!

19 minutes ago, edgy said:

God willing, I am so in!

I was actually thinking this 'should' be a 2 day event, so glad you thought of it too!! 

As for session times, I'd also be happy with more rotation & shorter session & ie 8-10 mins... even when they're longer at a sprint, I usually pull in earlier, but understand more rotations = less relaxed... perhaps even open pit format with time slots allocated to each run group? ie 9am-11am 50's & 60's and so on... 

Also very sensible 

[Gavn]

Would love a 2 day event - spreads the travel at either end & twice as much fun for the same effort.

 

[spiller]

1 hour ago, Skidmarks said:

Update 

I have confirmed with Winton that both days are available and have put a hold on both days. 

My feeling is that we will do it which will mean that on each day we can get cars out of similar vintages/speeds and broaden the options for more participants.

Could it be a Rennsport type event?  Maybe but we need to make sure we maintain the laid back vibe.

As for a little “door to door”, far be it for me to deny those with the appropriate licences ... I’ll check the level of staffing for safety with Winton.

Maybe the race (or races depending on how many pony up and if we need to split them into a slower group [ let’s call that group “Rohan” for the sake of the exercise ] and a faster group [“Skids”] ) could be to finale on Sunday. If extra bodies are needed for safety etc and that increases costs then those racing would tip In more.

That said, I want to maintain the emphasis on it being a track day so the racing bit is a bit of a thought bubble for me ATM.

So, other than those who came this year who I assume are automatic starters, we’d need another 40 or so starters to have it make sense.

We came out pretty much square for this one.

I’m thinking classes like:

* 50’s and 60’s

* 70’s and 80’s

* 90’s and 00’s 

* modern, GT and race cars

We’d work on 20 minute sessions but could cut them back to 15 in the mornings and then open up to longer in the afternoon

Also keen on a show and shine on one of the days   

What’s the view?

 

This sounds great. My suggestion at possible door to door inclusion was for it to of course follow the laid back theme of the event. Not racing for sheep stations but more so for exhibition such as what is seen at various historic meets around the world.  Can fully understand once “racing” is on the table however, it presents a new set of challenges in terms of safety and compliance so it may not fit the mould for this type of event. I’m keen for track day regardless.

[LeeM]

5 hours ago, spiller said:

 Not racing for sheep stations but more so for exhibition...

 😂 Like that's gunna happen once a bunch of Porsche driving lunatics are on the track at the same time! 😁

I reckon you need 20 minute sessions to get tyres up to temp, and the less experienced able to 'get in the groove' so to speak. More experienced circuit drivers can switch on a lot quicker. 

 2 day event, mix up both days with sessions for both 'new' and old (if time permits), with an exhibition (😅) for the more experienced drivers as the last session. 

 Just a thought. Once word gets out, you know you'll be inundated with requests to participate, so you may have to cap the entries with giving PFA members first preference. 

 

[9r]

Love the idea of running C&C2 over 2 days and opening it up for some more cars. If it remained a 1 day event I think the numbers were right for C&C1 and wouldn’t want more cars, why?

One of the best aspects of the whole event was the relaxed, respectful and courteous vibe that was evident all day (both on and off track) and this was a big part of what made the event so enjoyable and fun.

For me this was because of two aspects that was in mind right from the start when the idea of C&C was first raised, which were:

1. Limiting the numbers so that the groups could be small (10-12 was pretty much it by my counting through the day). This meant that everyone (ok... maybe not Sven and Rohan when they were having a bit of a run together 👍) had plenty of air around them which allowed everyone to go at their own pace and not be worried about holding people up or conversely getting in your clean lap for that pb.

2. The 20 minute session times meant that everyone was not chaffing at the bit to get out for their session to get in their laps. Instead you could go out when you wanted knowing that you would still get more than enough laps in before the end of the session.

And here’s the bonus 3rd benefit of the 2 points above... it also meant you had time to visit other garages, talk to everyone who dropped by for a chat and have time to have a good talk about how good these cars are, what we have done/doing/going to do with them, etc, not just a “g’day mate, I’m Ross...oh sorry got to go that’s my session being called”

I really believe it was one of the best days at the track I have been to for a very, very long time and really took me back to those days when you would all help your mates in the garage between races just to get them back out there and was well and truely worth paying a little extra for that privilege.

For all of this I really want to thank Sven, Hugh and everyone else involved in putting the event together as I can only imagine the effort you all put in to make it such a successful day.

The only thing in hindsight I wish we had done was to line up all the GT cars on the track for some photos as that would have been awesome... maybe something to consider for C&C2 🙂

These are just my thoughts on a great day

 

[Gavn]

11 minutes ago, 9r said:

Love the idea of running C&C2 over 2 days and opening it up for some more cars. If it remained a 1 day event I think the numbers were right for C&C1 and wouldn’t want more cars, why?

One of the best aspects of the whole event was the relaxed, respectful and courteous vibe that was evident all day (both on and off track) and this was a big part of what made the event so enjoyable and fun.

For me this was because of two aspects that was in mind right from the start when the idea of C&C was first raised, which were:

1. Limiting the numbers so that the groups could be small (10-12 was pretty much it by my counting through the day). This meant that everyone (ok... maybe not Sven and Rohan when they were having a bit of a run together 👍) had plenty of air around them which allowed everyone to go at their own pace and not be worried about holding people up or conversely getting in your clean lap for that pb.

2. The 20 minute session times meant that everyone was not chaffing at the bit to get out for their session to get in their laps. Instead you could go out when you wanted knowing that you would still get more than enough laps in before the end of the session.

And here’s the bonus 3rd benefit of the 2 points above... it also meant you had time to visit other garages, talk to everyone who dropped by for a chat and have time to have a good talk about how good these cars are, what we have done/doing/going to do with them, etc, not just a “g’day mate, I’m Ross...oh sorry got to go that’s my session being called”

I really believe it was one of the best days at the track I have been to for a very, very long time and really took me back to those days when you would all help your mates in the garage between races just to get them back out there and was well and truely worth paying a little extra for that privilege.

For all of this I really want to thank Sven, Hugh and everyone else involved in putting the event together as I can only imagine the effort you all put in to make it such a successful day.

The only thing in hindsight I wish we had done was to line up all the GT cars on the track for some photos as that would have been awesome... maybe something to consider for C&C2 🙂

These are just my thoughts on a great day

 

Mate - that just makes the burn on missing out so much greater.  Sounds like 20min sessions are definitely the way to go.  One of the aspects you mentioned (having time to mingle.& chat) would be a side benefit of two days.  If you know you've got two days to run on track there's plenty of time to both drive & chitchat.

[TwoHeadsTas]

22 minutes ago, 9r said:

Love the idea of running C&C2 over 2 days and opening it up for some more cars. If it remained a 1 day event I think the numbers were right for C&C1 and wouldn’t want more cars, why?

One of the best aspects of the whole event was the relaxed, respectful and courteous vibe that was evident all day (both on and off track) and this was a big part of what made the event so enjoyable and fun.

For me this was because of two aspects that was in mind right from the start when the idea of C&C was first raised, which were:

1. Limiting the numbers so that the groups could be small (10-12 was pretty much it by my counting through the day). This meant that everyone (ok... maybe not Sven and Rohan when they were having a bit of a run together 👍) had plenty of air around them which allowed everyone to go at their own pace and not be worried about holding people up or conversely getting in your clean lap for that pb.

2. The 20 minute session times meant that everyone was not chaffing at the bit to get out for their session to get in their laps. Instead you could go out when you wanted knowing that you would still get more than enough laps in before the end of the session.

And here’s the bonus 3rd benefit of the 2 points above... it also meant you had time to visit other garages, talk to everyone who dropped by for a chat and have time to have a good talk about how good these cars are, what we have done/doing/going to do with them, etc, not just a “g’day mate, I’m Ross...oh sorry got to go that’s my session being called”

I really believe it was one of the best days at the track I have been to for a very, very long time and really took me back to those days when you would all help your mates in the garage between races just to get them back out there and was well and truely worth paying a little extra for that privilege.

For all of this I really want to thank Sven, Hugh and everyone else involved in putting the event together as I can only imagine the effort you all put in to make it such a successful day.

The only thing in hindsight I wish we had done was to line up all the GT cars on the track for some photos as that would have been awesome... maybe something to consider for C&C2 🙂

These are just my thoughts on a great day

 

Ross (great to meet you by the way, I enjoyed our lengthy conversations 🙂 ), I think you nailed it.......

[Mike-S]

I think I said it somewhere about how the day reminded me very much of the secret squirrel days I used to partake in with a bunch of mates back in the early 2000’s, one ran the track day company we all used to help him out with. When that got to a size where the sheer number of events and punters meant that the ‘hardcore’ group from 20 or so of us barely got any track time while helping out, we started taking spare days offered by Anglesey circuit and not advertising them, hence the ‘squirrel days’ moniker. We would pony up the readies to Bookatrack (the business) so it broke even or made him a few quid and we could all have some fun, often making a weekend of it much like Sven’s suggesting and booking a massive country house nearby for us all to crash in. Meant that all the wives and girlfriends who also used to come along to the events could be involved as well, they could also have some track time if they so desired, but it became a regular thing. We didn’t run them as sessions per se all day, it was more of a start with the 20 minute sessions as you did, but then take an open pit approach from about mid morning onwards once everyone had been out a couple of times, which is similar to what happened in the late afternoon of Saturday as people got tired or had had enough anyway. 20 minute sessions are the perfect length though.

That relaxed vibe is what you managed to create and I’d caution on having too many people or different groups of wildly differing speeds booked for each day. If it’s at all possible I’d try to keep it to the dozen or so cars per session, then maybe let the sessions drop in the afternoon and go open pit as people naturally go off chatting / get tired / blow a water hose Jed / want to take the kids out / do some social meejya etc. The whole purpose should be about fun and being able to fling the cars around with a level of carefree abandon that isn’t allowed on traditional trackdays, where deliberately pushing on into oversteer to learn the car and drivers ability often leads to the dreaded black flag 🏴 
 

For the love of god though don’t open it up to the great unwashed or make it competitive in any way other than you did, otherwise that level of respect being demonstrated will be gone. It was fun watching Sven & Rohan not racing at all in any way shape or form for that session, but to add in more ‘competitive’ sessions would take away from it for many. The last thing I (and probably many others) want if I’m out on track is to be divebombed under the brakes into a corner by some racing hero, I have to drive my car home. Respect has to be the over riding feature of the event, as it was on the day.

Theres one thing I would change about the event briefing though, as a spectator I noticed it caused a few issues in the first couple of sessions for a few drivers. Overtaking rules were asked by someone, the response wasn’t so clear and was left to everyone to use ‘common sense’. As we all know, common sense isn’t that common, so I really would advise on some clarity on that issue. Straights only, by consent / indication only, on the left only and NEVER under brakes into a corner were our rules back in the day. Takes 5 seconds to say, is clear to everyone and in the 70+ trackdays I helped out at not once did we have any car to car contact or conflict. 
 

Reagrdless of what flavour of 911 I have next year, I’ll give it a crack on the day. I know I said this year that my current one isn’t for use on track anymore but I think Saturday changed my opinion 😁

[Arne Krix]

1 hour ago, 9r said:

Love the idea of running C&C2 over 2 days and opening it up for some more cars. If it remained a 1 day event I think the numbers were right for C&C1 and wouldn’t want more cars, why?

One of the best aspects of the whole event was the relaxed, respectful and courteous vibe that was evident all day (both on and off track) and this was a big part of what made the event so enjoyable and fun.

For me this was because of two aspects that was in mind right from the start when the idea of C&C was first raised, which were:

1. Limiting the numbers so that the groups could be small (10-12 was pretty much it by my counting through the day). This meant that everyone (ok... maybe not Sven and Rohan when they were having a bit of a run together 👍) had plenty of air around them which allowed everyone to go at their own pace and not be worried about holding people up or conversely getting in your clean lap for that pb.

2. The 20 minute session times meant that everyone was not chaffing at the bit to get out for their session to get in their laps. Instead you could go out when you wanted knowing that you would still get more than enough laps in before the end of the session.

And here’s the bonus 3rd benefit of the 2 points above... it also meant you had time to visit other garages, talk to everyone who dropped by for a chat and have time to have a good talk about how good these cars are, what we have done/doing/going to do with them, etc, not just a “g’day mate, I’m Ross...oh sorry got to go that’s my session being called”

I really believe it was one of the best days at the track I have been to for a very, very long time and really took me back to those days when you would all help your mates in the garage between races just to get them back out there and was well and truely worth paying a little extra for that privilege.

For all of this I really want to thank Sven, Hugh and everyone else involved in putting the event together as I can only imagine the effort you all put in to make it such a successful day.

The only thing in hindsight I wish we had done was to line up all the GT cars on the track for some photos as that would have been awesome... maybe something to consider for C&C2 🙂

These are just my thoughts on a great day

 

Well said , I think you hit the nail on the head.

[Skidmarks]

8 hours ago, Arne Krix said:

Well said , I think you hit the nail on the head.

@Mike-S and @9r I think your point is - don’t mess with something that worked!  It’s a very good point.  I tend to want to go big at times ... 😇

I have the track for 2 days now so will work on that basis.

Doing the numbers, we will need 35-40 paid up for each day.  I know most will want to come for both days but others not or can’t.  Preference will be given to those that sign up for both and if we can make it work, we will need a similar number of “one dayer’s” on each day otherwise we’ll fall short.

Putting on a race or two sounds easy but isn’t really and has the potential to mess with the vibe.  Costing to get the safety up to where it needs to be are also high.  So, the racing thought bubble has been popped.

We’ll focus on refining the recipe, getting a broader number of cars drawn from the PFA ranks, keep it “underground” and see if we can’t make the format family attractive for those that want it.  We also get to do things like the “kids” session without any hassle as no one knows but us ...

Skid pan was available this year but we didn’t use it but I think next year ...

As for the drivers briefing, we keep it low key on the basis that we’re all adults and sometimes rules can lead to confusion as people have different views on what braking into a corner means! 😁 That said, I’ll keep that in mind for next year as it probably does warrant a bit more attention.

I also agree on the 20 minute sessions and the time to wander around and talk. 

So, 2 days, similar size run groups and times, some other low key fun stuff like a show and shine, skid pan.  

[hugh]

It was a great day and its so good to hear that everyone enjoyed themselves.

The event never promised to be anything other than a day at the track with friends and I think that is why it was so successful. Days like this are primarily about the social aspect and being able to enjoy the cars with other like minded enthusiasts, nothing to win or loose, just hanging out, helping each other and appreciating how lucky we are to have such a great community of Porsche owners/drivers. The day started as a conversation between a few, something to look forward to during lockdown and grew into a broader social event that also had the benefit of being able to add an over night stay/dinner at the pub etc. to make a bit of a weekend of it for those inclined. 

There are plenty of events if you want to track and/or race your car - I do a few and really enjoy them too. The big difference here though, is the opportunity to do a "private" hire just among mates (and I think its just that little bit more special as a result). Nobody wants to crash their Porsche, let alone be responsible for damaging someone else's (especially a mates) so the residual outcome is really respectful and measured behaviour on and off track that allows it to feel "relaxed". Relaxed isn't obviously at the detriment of being responsible, but like everything there is a balance and at some point you need to show respect to the group as adults and expect them to behave accordingly and thankfully none of us let each other down. 

That being said, I think its really important (and can be challenging) to strike that balance. Numbers I believe are key to this, the aim was to have 10-12 cars out on track at any one time and that proved to be pretty effective in terms of space and traffic. I'd personally pay more for a day if I knew a) I was going to get as much track time as I wanted and b) If that was going to be uncongested, maximising my time for fun and reducing the risk of an accident due to limited traffic. Its a win win from my point of view. For the most part the numbers and groups seemed to work pretty well to ensure everyone got their fill with minimal interruptions. 

So, for future days like this I think we need to be mindful to not make it too big. Intimate is nice, as others have said, we all get to hang out and there is no rush due to ample amounts of time to get out on track. Again, it really is about the social stuff so we definitely don't want to take anything away from that from it all getting a little too busy...............

I'm up for whatever, it doesn't even need to have a name, nor does it need to compete with any other track/social/dinner/jazz ballet event - its just a bunch of mates/friends all chipping in to make the track ours for the day. Make of it whatever you want, but just know that You'll never have the swagger of a kid chilling in an IROC;

 

 

 

[hugh]

14 hours ago, Mike-S said:

Theres one thing I would change about the event briefing though, as a spectator I noticed it caused a few issues in the first couple of sessions for a few drivers. Overtaking rules were asked by someone, the response wasn’t so clear and was left to everyone to use ‘common sense’. As we all know, common sense isn’t that common, so I really would advise on some clarity on that issue. Straights only, by consent / indication only, on the left only and NEVER under brakes into a corner were our rules back in the day. Takes 5 seconds to say, is clear to everyone and in the 70+ trackdays I helped out at not once did we have any car to car contact or conflict. 

I agree common sense isn't all that common but fortunately as a smaller group, relatively known to each other, courtesy was extended to the drivers with the instruction;

- Not to use their indicators (always makes me cringe when I see this happen on track).

- Not to signal out of the window (due to windows needing to be up).

- Hold your line as it then becomes the responsibility of the faster car/driver to then negotiate a safe pass and is easier for them to do so. 

Whilst I understand no passing under brakes is a good rule to have, I don't actually have an issue with it - again providing that there is space to do so. Given the amount of cars on track at any one time, their speed comparison, level of driver courtesy etc. there should be ample space/room to pass safely. 

I know for me, its usually the only place I can get past as even in the 996 RS I couldn't match the later model GT3's in a drag race down the straights + passing in the corners is great fun! Admittedly, in a group of strangers the briefing would have been very different though. 

[Simonk]

Is windows up a new thing for track events? I haven't done a heap of track days but it's never been a rule on the ones I've been on. I wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes with the windows up in my car at Winton. It was hot as shit already with them down. I'll also say that without any acknowledgement from the car in front that they have seen me, it was difficult to know if it was safe to pass. I could only do it on the corners because I had the slowest car on track and people don't seem to want to back off on the straights to let me pass. In the end it was easier to back off and create a gap until I caught up again.

[P-Kay]

2 hours ago, hugh said:

You'll never have the swagger of a kid chilling in an IROC;

 

 

 

 

Proceless pic mate!

Couldn't give a Feggans 

[Shedpest]

1 hour ago, hugh said:

 Not to signal out of the window (due to windows needing to be up).

 

 I thought it was all the way up or all the way down  just not halfway?

Maybe different tracks have different rules

[Redracn]

3 hours ago, hugh said:

I know for me, its usually the only place I can get past as even in the 996 RS I couldn't match the later model GT3's in a drag race down the straights + passing in the corners is great fun! Admittedly, in a group of strangers the briefing would have been very different though. 

I hear the comment that the faster car will find a way past all the time but  I would like to suggest  that if a car was not behind a few corners ago and it is there now then it is lapping faster which does not necessarily mean in a straight line so to help slower straight line speed cars that are faster overall just easing of the throttle a bit down the straight makes it much easier for them to get by in the safest location. Yes the faster lapping car can probably get past somewhere around the track but best to invite them to do it down the straight. 
 

From my experience  the single best thing a slower car can do is be predictable and sticking to the correct line is the best way to do this even if you hold up the car behind for a few corners. Following a faster car for a few corners can be educational and following a slower one is often entertaining😁

[Pork Chops]

^^ exactly