IMS 996 question for the Illuminati.

[LeeM]

5 minutes ago, Costas said:

Yes that's him...!

As you may already be aware - He is into American Muscle - specifically Mopars.

 

 

Aha! I shook hands on that car, then couldn't bring meself to sell mine, so a mate bought it.

 Great car that one, and John is a nice (understanding) bloke👍

[Costas]

1 minute ago, LeeM said:

Aha! I shook hands on that car, then couldn't bring meself to sell mine, so a mate bought it.

 Great car that one, and John is a nice (understanding) bloke👍

He did a fair amount of mechanical work on that car which brought it up to scratch - The previous owners were not exactly car enthusiasts which explains the wear & tear on the paint/body and interior etc.

[LeeM]

Just now, Costas said:

He did a fair amount of mechanical work on that car which brought it up to scratch - The previous owners were not exactly car enthusiasts which explains the wear & tear on the paint/body and interior etc.

 Yeah cracking car for sure. John told me how much work he'd done which was pretty obvious. Just the wrong time for me unfortunately 

[st3ve]

This topic has obviously been run around the block more than a few times.  There is no doubt that the problem is real, but also that it is blown way out of proportion especially in the US based forums.  Take some time to research the counterpoint offered by Hartec in the UK which in most cases is to NOT change the bearing.  Read widely and make your own mind up.  I think the main point is to drive your 996 often and drive it as it was intended, change the oil and watch the filter.

[DT]

I bought my 996.1 5 years ago, fitted a magnetic drain plug, spin on oil filter adaptor, replace the oil approx every 5000k, check the plug.and never worry about the IMS.  

[Shedpest]

@Costas this car?

[MFX]

I personally would happily drive a 997.1 without ever worrying about IMS issues. It is a possibility, as it still has a sealed bearing but it is EXTREMELY rare for anyone to have an issue with them. The bulk of the issues are with single row bearings which were fitted to 996's from around mid 2000. I previously assumed that it was just 996.2's but I believe the issue came from the factory that supplied the original dual row bearing found in the early cars burned down and Porsche had to find a replacement quickly. Even the early cars have such a low rate of failure that they, along with the 997.1s were removed from the class action lawsuit filed in the US as failures were too infrequent. My factory dual row bearing I removed at 160k kms was still prefect.

By 997 they knew they had an issue and fitted a larger single row bearing which is very good, and I believe better than the early dual rows. 

The whole thing really became an issue due to the inferior, post 2000, single row bearing. Outside of that I really think the risk is no higher than a myriad other random issues that any engine from any manufacturer can face. Not worth losing too much sleep over.

[Costas]

4 hours ago, Shedpest said:

@Costas this car?

Yes..!!!

That's the car - I remember the rims that the previous owner had fitted.

[Costas]

2 hours ago, MFX said:

The whole thing really became an issue due to the inferior, post 2000, single row bearing. 

Problem is that the root cause is not the bearing itself.

The reason Porsche moved from the double row to single row bearing was to accomodate the wider cam chain setup used for the 3.6L. Nothing to do with a factory fire at the supplier....

The so called sealed bearings do not seal in the OEM grease 100% and over time the grease dissolves and the bearing then relies on engine oil that has to make its way through the bearing's own seals to lube its race - not ideal.

I noted this with the bearing that came out of my 996, whereby upon removing the bearing seals I noted no trace of the original bearing grease - just a light coating of engine oil was present on its internals.

IMO a good option would be to simply remove the seals to allow the engine oil free access to the bearing's internals. This is recommended by some and a good easy fix for a 997.1.

 

[TwoHeadsTas]

13 minutes ago, Costas said:

The so called sealed bearings do not seal in the OEM grease 100% and over time the grease dissolves and the bearing then relies on engine oil that has to make its way through the bearing's own seals to lube its race - not ideal.

I noted this with the bearing that came out of my 996, whereby upon removing the bearing seals I noted no trace of the original bearing grease - just a light coating of engine oil was present on its internals.

IMO a good option would be to simply remove the seals to allow the engine oil free access to the bearing's internals. This is recommended by some and a good easy fix for a 997.1.

 

I stand to be corrected, but I understand this is the method used by some of the prominent independents, also for 996's......

[michel]

3 hours ago, TwoHeadsTas said:

I stand to be corrected, but I understand this is the method used by some of the prominent independents, also for 996's......

Of a sort 

various manufacturers touting the ultimate solution 

plain bearing fed with pressurised oil  

[LeeM]

13 hours ago, Shedpest said:

@Costas this car?

 Good looking thing that was 👍

[RobCarrera]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but looking at getting this done to my newly acquired 2001 996 manual. It only has 84k on it but a lot of the usual stuff (IMS, RMS, clutch, bump stops, brakes) is going to need doing shortly. The workshop that did the PPI for me is EMD Automotive http://www.emdporschespecialist.com.au

Paul who owns and runs it use to be the lead tech and PC South Sydney and I vaguely remember him from the time that I use to get my 944S2 serviced there. He seems to be a bit of a perfectionist in speaking to him. Has anyone in the forums had any experience with them?

He has recommended using the EPS Bearing: https://www.europeanpartssolution.com/ims-bearing-upgrade-kit He said that he has installed the LN Engineering ones both the solution and replacement bearings and feels that the EPS bearings fit better and are better quality and are also oil-fed. Before speaking to him, Id never heard of the EPS bearing, has anyone used these before?

The quote for just the IMS upgrade:

Job 1) IMS Bearing Replacement -
Preliminary work for IMS Bearing replacement + Oil feed modification
Parts included with IMS bearing replacement
*Engine oil 8 Litres Porsche Mobil 1 0W40
*Oil Filter
*Flywheel bolts X 8
*Pressure plate bolts X 6
*Power steering fluid 2 Litres
*Coolant 6 Litres
*Rear main seal replacement
*A/C Re-gas
*A/C pipe O rings
*Diagnostic scan and adaption
*Parts & labour – $4,950

I'm not 100% sold on EMD doing the work, so any other suggestions would be welcome.

Pics of the new baby...

[Steve996]

Nice buy @RobCarrera! That looks fantastic. 

EPS is what I have in mine. Recommended by PR Tech and I was happy to trust their advice given their reputation.  Mine is not the oil fed type. 

Quote looks reasonable. Let us know how you get on with EMD, and enjoy the new ride. 

 

[Jason E]

So, as I am looking at a few Boxsters atm this is interesting to rear it's head again.

My experience - DHM here in Brisbane said they pull the engine regardless of man/ auto to do the job as it is easier with the engine out.  Don alleges that it is time saved with the engine out over time saved doing it fitted to car.  Who knows.  They are happy/ experienced with the LN oil fed solution. 

I spoke with Ryan at Autowerks Wyong yesterday re IMS.  They don't like the LN oil fed solution.  They only recommend the 4 year ceramic bearing (wouldn't be my choice though).  

Both are between 4 & 6k here in Brisbane with peripheral jobs included.

[RobCarrera]

Cool, thanks for the input guys!! This will be an engine/gearbox out as well. Again, was told much easier as well as being able to access everything else on the engine. These are now 20 years old, so many of the plastic parts they used on these are starting to need replacement.

I'm going to be getting a a lot of 'while your in there' work done as well. Most of the plastic hoses, OAS expansion tank oil cooler etc will be replaced as well as engine mounts and gearbox mounts. I may go with the RSS semi solids. From what I hear they make a huge difference to the handling. Phase two will be suspension and brakes next year, but that's all for another thread I guess.

[911CSR]

I know you have spoken to them, but I can highly recommend Autowerks (https://autowerks.com.au/) on the Central Coast. I have been having them do work on my 996 for the last 6+ months and they are awesome!!

Simon know his stuff and is so helpful.

[WB997.2GTS]

I fitted the EPS bearing when i opened my 2006 Boxster engine (40klm)  to replace a spun big end bearing. The IMS bearing was in perfect condition but since the engine was open it was a no brainer to replace it. I carried out the oil feed upgrade which is an excellent idea and i would recommend it to be done to all 986, 987 and 996 of the vintage, its only requires removing the oil pump, punching a hole into the IMS shaft and replacing the square drive key with one that has a V ground into it, its a very simple modification, the passes from the high pressure side of the pump, down the centre of the hollow IMS shaft and then floods the bearing (very simple). As i could not find any reason whey the bearing spun I also decided to install the additional 8th bearing to help support the crankshaft incase it was the crankshaft vibration that took out the big end. EPS have some very detailed videos on how their upgrades operate. I investigated throughly what bearing to use and found that if you ask 5 shops    for suggestions you will get 5 different answers.  Ask them how many different types of kits they have used and the answer is usually 1. 

[RobCarrera]

Thanks, I'm feeling a bit more comfortable with the EPS bearing now, particularly after doing a bit more research. The issue is as soon as you start looking into 'IMS' all you get is LN Engineering, they've certainly done a great marketing job!! 

911CSR, thanks for the Autowerks suggestion, Central coast maybe a little far for me right now, but thanks for the heads up!

I'll feel a little less paranoid once this is done. I want to go have have a chat to Paul at EMD and get a reality check on the rest of the incidentals. I'm hoping that he can do the Gundo hack for me as a little sweetener, it'll make the bill a little easier to swallow if I get something more tangible at the end, because these 996s are really quiet, more than I was expecting!!

[911CSR]

No problem. I have the non-LN Engineering IMS replacement in mine done by Autohaus Hamilton (previous owner) and I have had oil analysis done twice since I bought it and both times the filter and the analysis came back clean.

Thats the other option, Autohaus Hamilton.

[RobCarrera]

Autohaus was my first port of call to get the PPI done, but were booked out for over a week. I've spoken to Chris a few times regarding another car that I was looking at earlier, which they advised me to steer clear of. They are known for being one of the best (along with PRT) but also pretty expensive as well. It may be worth while getting them to quote on the job as a comparison though. 

[Jim45]

Hi Rob,

I've recently had the same job, oil fed EPS performed by Paul at EMD and other 😲 items whilst we were in there. He's not looked after the car for my complete ownership but I tried him out after a recommendation from a friend who has a 996/4S and am happy with his service to date.He's been doing the big ticket items for me since 2019. As you mentioned he is very thorough. I think his past experience gives him an advantage over my day to day mechanic who is also very capable but does not have the same level of training on Porsche cars. I was adamant I was not going to get the IMS done as my car has been serviced regularly and used as intended by myself and the previous owner but as the last visit involved a clutch replacement it made sense to do it, especially as I don't want to deal with the IMS hysteria / bargaining if I ever sell. The bearing that came out was perfect btw. I also liked the fact that he has performed multiple EPS oil fed updates and that he's close to where I live if anything goes awry.

In regard to noise have you tried the simple air box mod yet?

If you have any question feel free to shoot me a PM.

Cheers - Jim.

[RobCarrera]

Thanks so much for that Jim45!!

I think that's made my mind up, I think I'll stick with the 'Plan A' and get Paul to do the work.

I've done the airbox mod with the oil cap in the resonator inlet, it made a tiny difference to induction noise above 4krpm. Is it better to replace the hose and add the cap over the top of the resonator? 

[dan_189]

1 hour ago, Jim45 said:

In regard to noise have you tried the simple air box mod yet?

Here is a reason not to do that cap mod:

If you want to do a mod replace your mufflers with sports ones for power, lightness and sound.

[DT]

I’ve had the silicone intake hose / resonator delete / bypass with a BMC F1 panel filter on my 996.1 for six years and 27k. I love it. Never had any problems. I’ve combined it with a Cargraphic exhaust, and the difference they’ve made to the character of the car is huge.