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twro

991 GTS prices, at their peak?

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I am considering a purchase of a 991.1 or 991.2 GTS (plus a couple of other options), and did some research over the weekend into price changes over the past 12 months.

No surprise, prices are sky-high right now due to lack of supply (in particular new car deliveries) x plenty of demand (low interest rates, no expensive holidays etc).

My question is - do you think that prices will steady out, drop back to what they would/should have been, or continue rising?

Some data (comparing 6 month periods May 2020 - Oct 2020 vs Nov 2020 to May 2021);

991.1 Carrera GTS - Increased in value $12k - $15k: 

  • First 6 mths $218k and average milage of 21,000km 
  • 2nd 6 mths $230k and average milage of 32,000km

991.2 Carrera GTS - Increased in value $10k - $15k: 

  • First 6 mths $252k and average milage of 14,000km 
  • 2nd 6 mths $262k and average milage of 18,000km

991.2 Carrera T - Big increase in value of $26k - $38k: 

  • First 6 mths averages: $207k and average milage of 11,500km
  • 2nd 6 mths averages $233k and average milage of 15,000km. 
  • Now asking (not sold) prices are $245k for new listings

991.1 Carrera 4S - Held value: 

  • First 6 months $180k and average milage of 54,000km 
  • 2nd 6 mths $176k and average milage of 50,000km

Dust off that crystal-ball and let me know your predictions please...

 

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The GTS has always been a difficult market to predict because there are so few of them. Am I correct in saying this is the rarest model in the 911 line up in Australia in terms of cars sold new? I expect once the covid effect slows they will come back down to where they were before, but it doesn’t look as if there are huge savings to be had as they typically hold their value very well given their few numbers. I personally like the idea of a 991.1 GTS. N/A, peaky engine compared to the .2 turbo motor which has considerably more torque and earlier peak power. If you can live with the older infotainment it seems better buying than the 1.2 at a substantial saving in the current market.

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9 minutes ago, spiller said:

The GTS has always been a difficult market to predict because there are so few of them. Am I correct in saying this is the rarest model in the 911 line up in Australia in terms of cars sold new? I expect once the covid effect slows they will come back down to where they were before, but it doesn’t look as if there are huge savings to be had as they typically hold their value very well given their few numbers. I personally like the idea of a 991.1 GTS. N/A, peaky engine compared to the .2 turbo motor which has considerably more torque and earlier peak power. If you can live with the older infotainment it seems better buying than the 1.2 at a substantial saving in the current market.

Not the rarest (Carrera T, 911 R, 50th Anniversary are all more rare) but I believe they are lower volume than the 'major' models. e.g. there is 1.5x more sales volume of GT3's than GTS'. 6x more Carrera S' than GTS. 3x more base Carrera's than GTS. There is even 2x more GT3 RS sold than than GTS'!

 

I would be very interested to know the actual import figures for 991.1 and 991.2 GTS, does anyone have this?

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I think the later models are close enough in kms to be impacted by the filter on effect of lack of dealer stock.  Being a more limited production run (I don't have figures) they should hold value better over time.  I also like the idea of an n/a version over a turbo motor.  Over a longer timeframe I think these will be the more sought after vehicles...everything now heading towards relatively smaller displacement and turbos, which will inevitably be faster but not quite a 'real 911' flavour to me (acknowledging that some will feel entirely the opposite to this).

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Crystal ball prediction is they will stay steady and increase. I say this as few people spec/purchase them, therefore are less on the ground. I've been eyeing them off for the past 12 months or so and they don't seem to last long. I am hankering a 997.2 variant. That said, I feel the latest cars are not moving as quick because they are too closely priced to a GT3. IMHO, people purchasing these cars are for special occasions, sunny Sunday's etc. so if it's going to be special, then.....surely it's gotta be a GT car? Maybe that's showing to much of my psyche???

I've also watched countless 991.1 v 991.2 comparisons, and the biggest take-away for me was:

  • if you intend to wring it's neck, then .1,
  • otherwise the low down torque of the .2 comes up trumps as it is more usable on the street

If you are ready to purchase and find a car that you really like, then I would suggest jumping when you find it.

 

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^^^ I thought the same thing re: pricing compared to GT3 but I think Porsche has it worked out. Not everyone wants two seats and a hardcore track car for their 911. 

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5 minutes ago, spiller said:

two seats

How else am I meant to grab my coffee? I only need one passenger to hold on and make sure it does not spill :Chuckle2:

I hear you though - fair point if it's Club Spec ;) 

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53 minutes ago, P-Kay said:

I am hankering a 997.2 variant

Me too. As you say, these are incredibly hard to come by. A post mentioned elsewhere on PFA, rumour is that only 20x 997.2 GTS' came into Australia.

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There's a chappie on Youtube that does statistical analysis on vehicles - Four Wheel Trader I think. Anyways, your data seems to be consistent with his regarding increase both in price and odometer increase

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Carrera T is such a nice car, i'm unsurprised they have held their value.  32 x 991.2 Carrera T's delivered to Aust.

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I am actually considering a gts, purely for the back seat factor. I would buy a GT3, if there was a back seat option. I think I saw a 997 GT3 for sale in NZ not long ago, with what they called touring spec, and it included back seats from the factory. I had never heard of this before. Anyone else had any experience on the challenges of having both a hankering for a GT3, and having children? I'd really love a GT3 Touring with back seats....

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@marc and cars I have heard of people having the rear seats fitted to a GT3. It’s something like $20,000 and not as simple as buying some rears and bolting then in. 
 

Amazing that the Carrera Ts are in such low numbers. I’ve seen a couple around, had no idea just how rare they were. Was also lucky enough to see a 911 50th on the road here in Adelaide last week. Does anyone know how many of those were brought to Aus? With the 991 GT3s becoming “sell outs” so to speak, I think it’s very likely these non GT 911s will actually be more sought after down the track as these cars begin to age. 

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1 hour ago, spiller said:

^^^ I thought the same thing re: pricing compared to GT3 but I think Porsche has it worked out. Not everyone wants two seats and a hardcore track car for their 911. 

Is the Touring available in 4 seater?

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4 minutes ago, marc and cars said:

Sadly no 4 seat option

I didn't realise that. Sadly have to scrap GT3 Touring from my list of family friendly dream cars!

29 minutes ago, spiller said:

Does anyone know how many of those were brought to Aus?

Good question - these are also on my consideration list (if I could find one). I have only seen 1 come up for sale in the last year. To me this would suggest less than 10 (as a guess)

8 minutes ago, twro said:

Does anyone know how many of those were brought to Aus?

Update: Just asked a friend who owns one, he said "1 of 17 I believe"

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My view is that 991.1’s (and prestige cars in general) are at they’re peak or very close to it. If the housing market continues to climb as expected you would think APRA will use their levers to tighten credit by years end as we saw in ~2018. 
 

And then there was Covid. Who knows! 
 

Did you see this one?

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2015-porsche-911-carrera-gts-991-auto-my16/SSE-AD-7175941

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@twro I’m curious to know how much a 991 50th sells for. Do you remember what the last one you saw was advertised for? 

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I have heard, but can't confirm, that all of the Aus delivered 997 GTS's are PDK.

 

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49 minutes ago, spiller said:

Do you remember what the last one you saw was advertised for? 

One sold in the past year for $200k with 66,132 km. Prior to that one sold the year before for $214k with similar mileage. In 2019 one sold for $265,000 with only 11,000km. So there is only one on-market sale per year.

I know of one that might come up for sale soon, but out of my price range. If anyone else is interested let me know by DM.

17 minutes ago, MFX said:

that all of the Aus delivered 997 GTS's are PDK.

That’s my understanding too

1 hour ago, tomk86 said:

@tomk86 no I didn’t, was this just listed?

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There were definitely manual 997 GTS delivered to Australia. Not many, but they are here. Have seen 3 coupes in the flesh. Quite the unicorn.

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5 minutes ago, GusTV said:

There were definitely manual 997 GTS delivered to Australia. Not many, but they are here. Have seen 3 coupes in the flesh. Quite the unicorn.

Correct, my next door neighbour had one, a "silver" type colour (cant remember exact colour name).

At one stage their were 2 white PDK and his manual all in same street...just 1 x white PDK left, others have since been sold.

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18 minutes ago, Scott930 said:

Correct, my next door neighbour had one, a "silver" type colour (cant remember exact colour name).

At one stage their were 2 white PDK and his manual all in same street...just 1 x white PDK left, others have since been sold.

You must live in Unicorn Street!

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59 minutes ago, twro said:

You must live in Unicorn Street!

Haha, well, 1 was technically in a "side" street...

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