How Do You Enjoy Porsches on Public Roads in Australia?

[Tips]

5 minutes ago, Jkay said:

the closest place I can think of is the Royal National Park, unless anyone knows better

I have done RNP a few times recently with a small group. Last time there was a camera car parked in one section, and now they don’t have to put warning signs up. Whilst we are out at day break, I find it a difficult road as you share it in the warmer months with cyclist and usually in sections where it’s not safe for either of you to be passing theM.

I head further a field these days usually on the road at daybreak or before heading for the hunter or mountains so as fewer cyclists and constabulary 

[Jkay]

2 minutes ago, Tips said:

 

I head further a field these days usually on the road at daybreak or before heading for the hunter or mountains so as fewer cyclists and constabulary 

I felt the sane about the RNP, ie too crowded with cyclists and have seen the odd camera car. I avoided it in the summer, especially during weekends. 

I shall definitely have to head further afield. Havent done the pie in the sky route for a long time, but would love to explore the hunter too as Ive never driven up that way

[Fishcop]

33 minutes ago, Jkay said:

Ah I once worked in the same job, a number of years ago now in the UK. I once finished my shift and was on my way home on empty roads at around 0130am, and was kind of going a little above the limit (ok 35-40 mph over) and noticed a vehicle coming from behind at speed, closing in on me, and it turned out to be an unmarked Armed response vehicle which tailed me, Claxtons (flashing lights) off. 

I recognised the vehicle and pulled over and they just stopped next to me and casually asked asked if I was in a bit of a hurry, said I'd just finished work, and they just laughed and drove off. No They didnt drive off coz I was a copper at the time or because we knew each other (never seen them before but coincidentally saw them the very next day at a call to a stabbing ), but were more concerned with looking for burglars as there were quite a few "hook and cane" burglaries in the area at the time where high powered vehicles were being stolen with keys and werent interested in people speeding on empty roads.  Had I been a "person of interest", I am sure they would have done a more thorough stop. 

I can say 95% of my colleagues at the time shared the same attitude, ie nobody really cared about issuing speeding tickets unless the drivers were being complete fools, or if they were well known troublemakers. Hence,  I've always wondered what the general Australian copper was like, outside of the HWP. I went on a few attachments with Traffic, and they were interested in pursuits, getting drug dealers off the road etc, and also not overly motivated by speeding fines. 

Anyway I digress, and great point about twisty mountain range type roads. Living in Sydney (not far from Porsche Centre Sydney South, the closest place I can think of is the Royal National Park, unless anyone knows better

I understand RNP is somewhat well known and oversubscribed - even on early weekdays    Until the recent floods I was quite lucky to live at the foothills of the Oxley Highway which is renowned for riding/driving - however the recent weather has caused major land slips and months of reconstruction.

A the risk of offending some here that may have (or still do) wear blue; traffic branch was traditionally known as the JFs or Jury F@%kers, as most people's only experience of police officers in their life will be at the hands of a traffic cop doing random breath testing or spanking them for a minor traffic matter.  If the experience is bad, then it often ruined them as jury members for crime police who rely on the average Joe having some respect and belief in policing when it matters.

In my own defence, traffic policing for me was an accident - I had to get my "solo" license (police motorbike) to work surveillance in the druggies riding an undercover bike.  But part of the training and process meant 3 months penance in uniform handing out tickets to get signed off.

It is my humble opinion that the only people truly enamoured of 'safety cameras', increasing fines, lowering speed limits and grand-standing over traffic safety are politicians looking for easy grey votes and working lazy policy... But that's another soapbox.

[DJM]

Buy a clubman, exhilarating at “legal” speeds.  My GT3, not so much.....😬

[Jkay]

6 minutes ago, Fishcop said:

It is my humble opinion that the only people truly enamoured of 'safety cameras', increasing fines, lowering speed limits and grand-standing over traffic safety are politicians looking for easy grey votes and working lazy policy... But that's another soapbox.

Thats actually comforting in a way, ie its not the boys and girls in blue who can feel really unappreciated as it is at times (ask me how I know ) 

5 minutes ago, DJM said:

Buy a clubman, exhilarating at “legal” speeds.  My GT3, not so much.....😬

I guess another Turbo isnt the way to go lol. 

[Coastr]

I can relate recently returning from OS where I could drive at the speed I felt like with virtually no risk of being pinged for it.  And magnificent roads to explore.  It’s easy to get depressed about the state of everything government related in Australia - a paradise governed by pinheads - but you’ve just got to move on and work with what you have.  Get a slower fun car is good advice.

[RwGreeny]

This is such a good topic to raise @Jkay and something all of us struggle with, both morally and legally. So much great input and advise from all PFA’ers in this thread. It seems as though it just comes down to picking your battles and being considerate. Not constantly rolling the dice everywhere, all the time.

[Jkay]

27 minutes ago, Coastr said:

I can relate recently returning from OS where I could drive at the speed I felt like with virtually no risk of being pinged for it.
 

.  Get a slower fun car is good advice.

It’s a great feeling isn’t it, being to drive without looking over your shoulder all the time, constantly worried about getting pinged… took the cayman out for a lovely night drive last week… empty roads and just cruised 

Ok now I really have to re think what falls under the “slower but fun” car category…. Anything air cooled is so expensive these days, but oh so desirable 

I LOVE GT3’s, of any vintage but they aren’t exactly slow 😅…. Never owned one tho, only ever driven them relatively short distances and am a big fan

911 turbos are excellent cars but maybe won’t suit my needs as they can hide speed very well “Sorry officer didn’t realise I was doing 200”… excellent for covering distance at speed tho 

I want to see if prices will soften next year too, at least back to pre pandemic levels 

12 minutes ago, RwGreeny said:

This is such a good topic to raise @Jkay and something all of us struggle with, both morally and legally. So much great input and advise from all PFA’ers in this thread. It seems as though it just comes down to picking your battles and being considerate. Not constantly rolling the dice everywhere, all the time.

I’m genuinely very pleasantly surprised at the responses from the great people here….. had I put this on somehwere like the whirlpool motoring forum I’d have been slammed as a so and so …. 

[DJM]

Chris knows

But there is a certain magic on driving slow cars fast; they are more accessible, leaving you using them as hard as you can without reaching stupidly dangerous speeds.

https://youtu.be/EfDHULZZjpQ

Avoids this

https://au.news.yahoo.com/brutal-punishment-for-serial-hoon-with-600-k-lamborghini-092753816.html

[RwGreeny]

I my experience everyone one this forum is a driver and really loves to enjoy their cars to the fullest. Touching on what you and a few others have mentioned above about driving slow cars fast. I have, and have had the fastest and the slowest of pcars of varying generations. I’ve found their is something to be said for a car with skinny tyres, around the 1000kg mark and 200 Australian HP (not However the US measures it) I feel this recipe is fail safe for a great driving car in Aus

[Jkay]

59 minutes ago, DJM said:

Chris knows

But there is a certain magic on driving slow cars fast; they are more accessible, leaving you using them as hard as you can without reaching stupidly dangerous speeds.

https://youtu.be/EfDHULZZjpQ

Avoids this

https://au.news.yahoo.com/brutal-punishment-for-serial-hoon-with-600-k-lamborghini-092753816.html

I love the 205’s…. I actually looked at them on carsales the other day (1-2 weeks ago) and they’re not as cheap as I was expecting ! 
 

And wow…. Having a Huracan seized …

don’t condone it, but have seen a few people do over 200 here where I am… happens quite regularly 

13 minutes ago, RwGreeny said:

I my experience everyone one this forum is a driver and really loves to enjoy their cars to the fullest. Touching on what you and a few others have mentioned above about driving slow cars fast. I have, and have had the fastest and the slowest of pcars of varying generations. I’ve found their is something to be said for a car with skinny tyres, around the 1000kg mark and 200 Australian HP (not However the US measures it) I feel this recipe is fail safe for a great driving car in Aus

1000kg’s, skinny tyres and around 200hp sounds like something very desirable… why oh why have they skyrocketed in price lol! 
 

Some of the best driving memories I have are from driving simpler slower cars 

[DJM]

2 hours ago, RwGreeny said:

I my experience everyone one this forum is a driver and really loves to enjoy their cars to the fullest. Touching on what you and a few others have mentioned above about driving slow cars fast. I have, and have had the fastest and the slowest of pcars of varying generations. I’ve found their is something to be said for a car with skinny tyres, around the 1000kg mark and 200 Australian HP (not However the US measures it) I feel this recipe is fail safe for a great driving car in Aus

Bang on plus RWD and you’re there. Failing that.....🤔😂

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-austin-mini-moke-11/?fbclid=IwAR3eGCDCIwHu2n-kSEtkLBDNZCmhJfpeyVYSdPqaNWvYPJGuSEpqbILy6z4

[LeeM]

 @Jkay The guy who had his Huracan seized was a habitual knob on the roads, and he deserved what the cops have done. Drive like a dick and it's just a matter of time before you get pinched

[TwoHeadsTas]

Being involved in both Porsche Club runs (often as organiser / lead) and a few private drives with a couple of other GT cars, I very much work on being seen to do the right thing on club runs to avoid the "knob Porsche drivers" view of the public - nothing worse than 15 Porsches driving badly giving other users an excuse to cane us.  However, those private 3 or 4 car GT drives are a little different, but we choose the time and place to be able to enjoy our cars to a slightly higher level. 

And agreed, Tarmac rally touring groups provide a fantastic outlet, thinking about Targa Tas touring for next year.  It'll be the 30th year, I drove a 308GTB in the very first one and had a ball, but wouldn't even consider doing the full thing in the GT3, much too professional and serious these days, and I would need to drive well beyond my abilities (and wallet), so the Tour would be a great way to go

[reedminor]

Agree with the sentiments of having an older car  - Ive had 2 - a 68 swb and a 77 Carrera 3.0. I also have a 356 at my disposal.

You can exploit (and access) more of the performance envelope more of the time on the road without feeling or being seen as ) irresponsible.

Chris Harris articulates this point far better than me in his video where he compares a 991R and his early 90's Peugeot 205 Rallye ( a French homologation special).... google it if you havent seen it.

Ive had heaps of fun on organised drives, rallyes etc and also used the cars on the circuit in regularity ( Eastern Creek, Winton, Phillip Island) - so it is possible to have some fun.

If I owned anything newer Id be doing more track days to exploit their performance envelopes....

JR

  

 

[MR901]

17 hours ago, hugh said:

Great question! 

It's very difficult to exercise these cars as intended in Aus, especially here in Vic (much worse than NSW in terms of the level of speed enforcement). This is the main reason why my daily is a 65 912, I drive it everywhere, flat out and don't feel I'm rolling the dice risking my licence - it's about the only way I can enjoy a car within posted speed limits. 

Anything else, as others have said, best to take to a track or do a closed road targa/tarmac rally event in a "touring" category. Really the only way to use the cars to their potential responsibly. 

I'm 100% on the same page. I've had two 912's & found the combination of modest HP & 165 tires is a great recipe for enjoying spirited drives well within the speed limit. IMHO any modern car more sporty than a Kia Carnival is too fast to be enjoyed on Victorian Roads. The track or targa events is the best bet....

[Dreamr]

9 hours ago, Jkay said:

1000kg’s, skinny tyres and around 200hp sounds like something very desirable… why oh why have they skyrocketed in price lol! 
 

Some of the best driving memories I have are from driving simpler slower cars 

I have a humble little 924 Turbo .. 170hp and skinny tyres.

Often prefer to take the little red rocket out over the 911. Very capable, engaging, and can exceed the speed limit in 2nd gear if I feel the need .. 😅

Absolutely love it!

[edgy]

19 hours ago, Jkay said:

Thanks for the kind responses (was expecting to get flamed for mentioning exceeding the speed limit), but it looks like everyone understands what I mean. 

I too totally want to keep the good name of the forum and its members, whether on a group drive or as an individual, and I feel we share the same sentiment when it comes to driving at moderate speeds but safely and respectfully. I am not some random hoon who wants to drive like an a r se. 

Thank you very much for the offer Niko and will definitely take you up on it if I am ever in a Porsche in Melbourne. If all goes well I'll be heading back to Sydney in a couple of months, and hopefully the wife and daughter still remember who I am :D. That and a mate has recently bought a 996 GT3 I cant wait to see after selling his 991.2 (which I think was too insulated for him)

Love Edgys suggestion on getting something older, ie slow car fast. My last Porsche in Sydney was a 997 Turbo, so I guess NOT the most bare bones Porsche around lol. 
 

I did a key swap with a friend who had 997 TT... there is no way I'd have license if owned one of those! 

As for old, its a good point on your mates 996 GT3, I am currently down to the one Porsche sports car, and its a 996... there is a lot of feedback in those early GT cars, which gives you that tactile & sensory satisfaction at most speeds. 

 

17 hours ago, Jason A said:

I read this and am now on the verge of depression 

I have your medicine mate... 🍷

13 hours ago, Jkay said:

Anyway I digress, and great point about twisty mountain range type roads. Living in Sydney (not far from Porsche Centre Sydney South, the closest place I can think of is the Royal National Park, unless anyone knows better

 

RNP is my closest... I don't drive it much, even when I do, my expectation is in line... but its often fraught with danger, in fact we went there last Sunday, and just prior to the Audley weir there was a fatality... we turned around and hit the freeway to Wollongong and looped it back via Darkes Forrest to Waterfall, that is an under rated segment of road, generous 100 kph speed limit and a good quite road. 

The key is company, or go solo, when we go its a 6-6:30am meet up and depart... none of this daylight BS! 

But yes, most the really great driving roads are bit of a commitment, but if you start early, you can be back in Sydney for lunch with your family. 

 

1 hour ago, reedminor said:

Chris Harris articulates this point far better than me in his video where he compares a 991R and his early 90's Peugeot 205 Rallye ( a French homologation special).... google it if you havent seen it.

 

I've been resisting a door knock on the 205 GTi 2 streets down, thanks to that video!

 

[reedminor]

1 hour ago, edgy said:

I did a key swap with a friend who had 997 TT... there is no way I'd have license if owned one of those! 

As for old, its a good point on your mates 996 GT3, I am currently down to the one Porsche sports car, and its a 996... there is a lot of feedback in those early GT cars, which gives you that tactile & sensory satisfaction at most speeds. 

 

I have your medicine mate... 🍷

 

RNP is my closest... I don't drive it much, even when I do, my expectation is in line... but its often fraught with danger, in fact we went there last Sunday, and just prior to the Audley weir there was a fatality... we turned around and hit the freeway to Wollongong and looped it back via Darkes Forrest to Waterfall, that is an under rated segment of road, generous 100 kph speed limit and a good quite road. 

The key is company, or go solo, when we go its a 6-6:30am meet up and depart... none of this daylight BS! 

But yes, most the really great driving roads are bit of a commitment, but if you start early, you can be back in Sydney for lunch with your family. 

 

 

I've been resisting a door knock on the 205 GTi 2 streets down, thanks to that video!

 

I had a S1 205GTI which I sold in 2019..... wonderful ..... but you realise how much things have moved on.... my daily is an My12.5GTi Golf.  So the comparison was easy and immediate.

Any talk about light weight construction - such a contrast to the bank vault build quality of the old Porsches 356- g series.

When I lived in Sydney I used to do the Wisemans Ferry / Mangrove Mountain / Gosford loop as frequently as I could (4-6 times a year). Great in an early car..... even a 993 engined early car with cup cams! Now that was paradise.

 

 

 

JR

[Dreamr]

17 minutes ago, reedminor said:

When I lived in Sydney I used to do the Wisemans Ferry / Mangrove Mountain / Gosford loop as frequently as I could (4-6 times a year). Great in an early car..... even a 993 engined early car with cup cams! Now that was paradise.

I live in Kariong .. 2 mins drive to all those roads.  Drive them regularly. I concur! 😅

[TINGY]

I am back to looking at what car i will be buying in several months time. The last car i got out of was a 996. That car was so capable of many things and one of them would have been losing my license. I have had 3 944's and they are very capable also but i find them a very different feel to the 996. 

The talk about driving a "slow car fast" appeals to me more now. Last time i drove the Oxley Hwy i'll admit i did a couple of silly things that a slower car would not have let me do so maybe this is playing on my mind also. For driver feel on the road i thought the way the front end lets you feel every little divet and join of the bitumen, the 944 wins for me. I think the recent upswing in pricing of an AC 911 has put me out of the market for a half decent one (unless someone has a cheapie tucked away) so i may go back to the "slower" 944, S2 of course, or maybe a Boxster or Cayman for a change. Although i think the 996 is the best all round bang for buck buying still.

Lots of excellent back roads in the Hunter Valley to stretch the legs @Jkay 

[Jkay]

26 minutes ago, TINGY said:

r maybe a Boxster or Cayman for a change. Although i think the 996 is the best all round bang for buck buying still.

Lots of excellent back roads in the Hunter Valley to stretch the legs @Jkay 

Yes, owned my first Cayman after coming overseas this time around and I must say I am very impressed. The only downside about a 987 in Aus tho is the need to wring its neck and rev it to get any fun out of it, so I may look at 981's. Still not too sure about the 718's until I have a proper drive of one

1 hour ago, reedminor said:

Great in an early car..... even a 993 engined early car with cup cams! Now that was paradise.

Ah if only I could afford one, but like some others, the current pricing of Air cooled Cars is just crazy and limits my options, for now anyway

4 hours ago, MR901 said:

 IMHO any modern car more sporty than a Kia Carnival is too fast to be enjoyed on Victorian Roads. The track or targa events is the best bet....

Totally agreed, 100% on the Kia Carnival lol. I actually get very sleepy driving any distance in Aus, but I digress. 

 I definitely think events are my only proper avenue for an outlet. 

[Fishcop]

At the recent Luftwasser weekend in March, I followed a gent in a series 1 986 2.5l 5 speed - the Basic Boxster.  He owns several other Porsches of the much quicker variety yet the chosen weapon for the weekend was the Boxster.  His logic was similar to what others have said, quick and capable but you had to 'work it' to keep velocity and doesn't easily let him get into dangerous speed territory - his grin said it all!  All I'll say is that I struggled to keep up in my 996 C4S through the twisty stuff on a run to Mitta Mitta.  I really reassessed my view of the humble 1st gen Basic Boxster.

[3legs]

Me, I just follow Lee through the hills and because I can't keep up with him I can give my 928 some stick and if I come around a corner and he's on the side of the road with Mr Policeman then I know that he's keeping plod busy and I can just keep giving it more stick   

I tell ya he's a great wingman. Hi Lee  

I'm kidding guys. He can't keep up with me  

[OZ930]

3 hours ago, TINGY said:

The talk about driving a "slow car fast" appeals to me more now.

Exactly why I still have the Charade F2.