Australian Delivered 1987-1989 G50 911 Delivery Numbers

[carl888]

20 hours ago, Peter M said:

My recollection is that the Australian delivered '84 and '85 MY were 170kW (231hp), reducing to 152kW (207hp) with the reduction of compression ratio and ignition advance and the addition of a exhaust catalyst due to the move to 91RON unleaded in 1986 but this increased to 160kW (217) on later models when 95RON became available here and they could run more advance.

But I can't find a reference source to indicate when the ECU changed on the lower compression catalysed 930.26 engines to allow this jump from 152 to 160kW to occur.

Any 3.2 nerds out there to confirm?

As for the performance change between the 231 and the 207hp cars, Porsche publicised a increase in 0 to 100kph time from 6.1 to 6.5 seconds.   

Although when Modern Motor tested an 3.2 against a 944 turbo in August 1986, the  207hp car ran 6.23 seconds against the Turbo's 6.32! 

207 HP came out with the 1986 MY and later 911 3.2 for Australia.

These engines were designed run on 91 RON by the addition of a jumper cable (Terminal 10) on the ECU loom.  This retarded the ignition by 3 degrees over the RoW catalysed engine which was designed for 95 RON and produced 217 HP.  This jumper was removed for Australia around the 1988 model year bringing the Australian engines into line with the RoW catalysed engines.  It takes about 45 seconds to convert a 207 HP car to 217.  You MUST therefor use 95 RON as a minimum requirement if you do this.

I have the technical information about this, I'll post it up later.

Here's a 1987 MY Australian price list.  You'll notice the high specification of the Australian specification 911s.  What you may think is an option, is possibly just a standard item for Australia (Version C23).

However I've seen some build plaques for Australian cars (The white sticker under the bonnet and in the service book) that list all the options (Even if standard for that market) along with C23, and some that just list C23 with no options listed.  

[carl888]

On 30/07/2021 at 21:10, Merv said:

Good thread.  Mine is still a stock car and was a Nov 1987 built car, sold in early '88.  My friend's is a March '89 sale.  Both in GP White.  Mine came with every option that Porsche seemed to have in their book at the time - sports seats, sunroof, AC with the 'auto' setting, the amplified stereo pack, electric mirrors, central locking, cruise control and so on. The only option not ticked was the heavy spoiler-for which I am grateful.

These are such strong well made cars and they must have cost a mint back then. The low sales numbers are not surprising given that these were the last of the TYP 911 cars and people were looking for new models and the 928.

That's actually not true, the sales numbers at the time from 1987 till 1989 were unprecedented.  There was no floor stock, everything was sold.  

On 02/08/2021 at 08:05, Mike-S said:

Mine also has factory fitted cruise control and air conditioning.

Had the a/c fully replaced last year, will get the cruise working again one day but from memory, it’s pretty rudimentary. Kept speed +/- 5kmh, but any increase or decrease initiated on the stalk was in 10kmh increments.

Something is amiss, the VDO until works easily in 1/2 km/h increments and should hold the speed very steady

23 hours ago, rminc said:

Here's mine. Marine Blue Metallic. The photo doesn't do the colour justice. In low light, it's more of a midnight blue and in sunlight it changes completely. 

That appears to be a very nice car.  How refreshing to see one wearing the correct width  6" + 7" X 16" wheels

OK, here's the information about the 231/217/207 HP ECUs

 

 

[GDC010]

Evening all,

I've recently bought a 40,000 mile MY 86' Supersport. It was originally delivered to the Isle of Man (hence the decal I've added to the license plate as an acknowledgement of its history ) and then found its way to Melbourne in about 2011, I'm only the 3rd owner. As an 86, it's a 915 box car, but I've driven G50 boxes that aren't as nice to shift as this, so clearly I've been lucky. The file of paperwork is also a couple of inches thick. The original owner apparently had a collection of 911s and clearly never drove it in winter because it has no rust.  I  can only hope that he took this on the TT course at pace at least once!

It's a rare beast and I understand that only circa x269  in total were made in RHD coupe with about x40 or so coming to Australia. I don't know the targa/convertible production numbers. It's totally stock except for a Prototipo wheel, balsa gearknob, having the wheels powder coated (there were originally white) and the side decals - all of which I've done in the last few months. With the pinstripe cloth interior, it simply could not be more 80s'. It still has several UK dealer delivery stickers in place. Also, with 231 bhp, and the upgraded brakes etc I just think of it as  a better 3.2 rather than a cheaper 930. The ultimate 3.2 has to be the Clubsport but pricing for those has gone to levels that not even my one-eyed 'man maths' can justify. It's well known that the numbers built with the M491 option code records from the factory are not conclusive - which is incredibly non-Germanic (and frustrating). I've also commissioned the skeletal 1:10 model (without the side windows) in one of the photos for my study.

As an aside, I've confirmed with the author that this is THE car from the cover of the book in the photo as well as being featured within. The price for it was in the mid/high $100,000 range and if I overpaid, well I don't really care. It was literally my bedroom poster car as a boy and the value I get from that is priceless. It's worth what it's worth when I die, and it's not getting sold before then. After that, it's irrelevant!

[OBRUT]

That would look great with the original white wheels (I’m a big colour matched wheels fan). 

[Merv]

Carl: "That's actually not true, the sales numbers at the time from 1987 till 1989 were unprecedented. "

I'm not sure that's true Carl.

The 3rd post for shows the actual numbers sold here. All (then limited) Australian stock was sold, but as I was trying to say, and perhaps I wasn't clear enough, the decision had been made by Porsche to diversify and renew its model range, internationally.

These cars remain ones with excellent build quality, in someways like the Mercedes of the same period.

It would be good if you could share the terminal 10 'solution'. 

Lovely car GCD 010.  You did well there. Gearboxes are only as good as the manner in which they are set up and maintained. There some inherent limitations perhaps in the durability in their design depending on how much power they are asked to handle and the driving demands they are exposed to.   I had good experience with '65, 901 box that I spent a lot of time on, with a most satisfying outcome. 

[GusTV]

On 02/08/2021 at 20:54, OBRUT said:

Disagree with the first and agree with the second. 

Agree with Obrut. I have had owned a number of examples of both variants and found the performance difference very noticeable. More horses for courses I guess but there’s plenty you can do to address that performance imbalance!

[Diamond911]

20 hours ago, GDC010 said:

I've got this awesome book on my shelves as well. Your M491 looks fantastic in white!

[Coastr]

Very nice car, a real find.  I prefer my fuchs in black..have thought many times about the side striping 'porsche' as well as shark fins, of which I have a narrow body genuine porsche set sitting in a box.  It's a real treat to see properly documented survivor cars in really good untouched condition.  

[GDC010]

Coastr,

thank you for your comment - and I guess also for the validation. I was a little hesitant about making ANY modifications - no matter how small, purely because it was so completely untouched - and then I realised this was for me, not for the next guy and so why not do exactly what I wanted? Everything is very easily reversible anyway.

What's the worst that could happen? Make the changes, live with it for a while and if you don't like it, just undo whatever you've done!

Cheers

[MP911]

On 02/08/2021 at 19:18, mal911 said:

I've got an 87 non sunroof 3.2 with g50 and to throw a spanner in the works its paint code is L999(customer paint to sample)which in my cars case is forest green.

Another forest green but with tan interior 

My 3.2 g50 is 1988 my89 and delivered by Hamiltons

[911]

On 06/08/2021 at 21:58, MP911 said:

Another forest green but with tan interior 

My 3.2 g50 is 1988 my89 and delivered by Hamiltons

Very nice! Seems like a few are coming out of the woodwork!

Unfortunately apart from numbers posted by James P, there really isn't much else available.

Finding colour numbers and number of coupes seems near impossible. Porsche Australia has also said they no longer have the records.

If anyone has any info, would be greatly appreciated. 

I hope the registry like post below provides some insight. 

In total 346 G50 cars. 

40 were speedsters and 28 M471 coupes. 

Leaving 278. I'd imagine at least half were convertibles or targas, which leaves around 139. Maybe 39 written off in the last 30+ years. Doesn't really leave many coupes. Lucky if there is 100 on the road. 

Explains why I had so much trouble trying to find one. 

If anyone has any more info on numbers, please do let me know. I wouldn't mind making a register. 

I've been keeping track over the last 3 or 4 years of narrow body coupes and I've come across the following for anyone that's interested. 

Coupe

X1 Black

X4 Red

X4 Granite Green

X2 Marine Blue

X5 Grand Prix White (2 mentioned in this thread and 2 Clubsport) 

X3 Silver (1 Clubsport) 

X2 Paint to Sample (Forrest Green) 

X2 Diamond Blue 

Total 23

 

Targa 

X1 Silver (This thread) 

 

Turbo body Coupe

X1 Grey 

X1 Dark Blue on blue 1989

Total X28

 

Speedster 

X2 Red

Total x40

[sus911]

More importantly what are the numbers of the original, most powerful, lightest and most nimble 3.2 Carreras, the '84-85?

NB. My '84 has has always had a finned oil cooler in the front RH wheel well.

😉

[Dalai]

3 hours ago, sus911 said:

More importantly what are the numbers of the original, most powerful, lightest and most nimble 3.2 Carreras, the '84-85?

NB. My '84 has has always had a finned oil cooler in the front RH wheel well.

😉

MY1984 Aust deliveries:

Carrera - 55

Carrera Targa - 14

Carrera Cabrio - 43

930 - 11

928S - 116

944 - 205

1985 Aust 3.2 deliveries:

Carrera - 97

Carrera Targa - 38

Carrera Cabrio - 28

930 - 47

[Merv]

Good to see eventual recognition of this well developed last edition of the TYP 911. I have noticed that my 87 has factory spacers on the rear but the 89 does not.

 

I love the narrow bodied cars as they pay homage to the original body shape and I personally don't like whale tails or wide bodies.

[911]

47 minutes ago, Merv said:

Good to see eventual recognition of this well developed last edition of the TYP 911. I have noticed that my 87 has factory spacers on the rear but the 89 does not.

What were the wheel options for the 911s

Were there 2 sets of 15's and one set of 16's?

Which is the most common and the rarest? 

I wasn't even aware of the different sizes. 

[sus911]

9 hours ago, wangan said:

What were the wheel options for the 911s

Were there 2 sets of 15's and one set of 16's?

Which is the most common and the rarest? 

I wasn't even aware of the different sizes. 

I have a feeling that most 3.2's that came here were on 16" Fuchs. Starting with 6&7's for '84/5 then 6&8's from '86 onwards, except for M491 & turbo which had 7&9"

[Diamond911]

9 hours ago, sus911 said:

I have a feeling that most 3.2's that came here were on 16" Fuchs. Starting with 6&7's for '84/5 then 6&8's from '86 onwards, except for M491 & turbo which had 7&9"

My 1987 Commemorative Edition came standard with 15x7" and 15x8" Fuchs as part of the Commemorative package.

[carl888]

10 hours ago, sus911 said:

I have a feeling that most 3.2's that came here were on 16" Fuchs. Starting with 6&7's for '84/5 then 6&8's from '86 onwards, except for M491 & turbo which had 7&9"

16" X 8" rears were standard on the 3.2 Carrera for the 1989 MY only (Assuming you ordered 16" wheels).

Back in 1987 forged wheels either 15" or 16" were an option, the cars were standard on the 15" telephone dials.

This is noted in the price list I posted earlier.

 

[Merv]

And factory spacers?  

[carl888]

21 hours ago, Merv said:

Good to see eventual recognition of this well developed last edition of the TYP 911. I have noticed that my 87 has factory spacers on the rear but the 89 does not.

No such thing as factory spacers on a non turbo look

20 hours ago, wangan said:

What were the wheel options for the 911s

Were there 2 sets of 15's and one set of 16's?

Which is the most common and the rarest? 

I wasn't even aware of the different sizes. 

Please check the price list I posted earlier, it's listed there

On 10/08/2021 at 07:25, sus911 said:

More importantly what are the numbers of the original, most powerful, lightest and most nimble 3.2 Carreras, the '84-85?

NB. My '84 has has always had a finned oil cooler in the front RH wheel well.

😉

Certainly there's a power difference, I put two on the dyno once, the unleaded car de-looped.  Assuming 25% drivetrain loss it worked out at 234 and 227 RWHP respectively.  The torque figures were less on the unleaded car too especially under 3,000rpm, but I don't recall the difference, it was a few %.  Oddly, the unleaded car "felt" quicker the faster you went, a legacy of it's shorter 4th. and 5th. ratios I suspect.  But I never tested acceleration.  

Then I weighed them.  8kg against the latter car.  The unleaded car had electric drivers seat but no headlight washers.  The earlier car had no electric drivers seat, but headlight washers.  The G50 transmission is a bit heavier but not sure how much.  I'll dig out the exact weights but somewhere around 1,230kg rings a bell.  No driver or payload, with books, tools and full fluids.

The lightest one is the Club Sport.  

[Merv]

On 11/08/2021 at 17:44, carl888 said:

No such thing as factory spacers on a non turbo look

 

I may have been thinking about my turbo which has spacers.  I have the '87 Carrera in my shed at the moment, but as I recall my original sales docs from Chellingworth Porsche in WA had them on the delivery sheet. Will check this week.

[LeeM]

On 11/08/2021 at 17:14, carl888 said:

No such thing as factory spacers on a non turbo look

 Seems they were fitted. 4th post down from top by the encyclopedic @Buchanan Automotive

.

[Peter M]

Lee,

Carl is correct for this topic on 3.2's.  Only standard wheel spacers on the rear of M491 optioned 3.2's (and 1981 onwards Turbo's) - part number 930 331 611 06.  This is confirmed by the PET's.

On both my 3.2's with 6 and 7 inch wide Fuchs, I've just added 21 or 23mm wide spacers to the rear to fill out the rear guards.  I don't see the value of running 7's and 8's on such a relatively light and low powered car, just run good tyres.  (Nothing destroys the pleasure of driving these cars more than crappy tyres, except maybe a maladjusted gear shift on a 915!).

For my current car, I used a set of 21mm thick factory spacers (477 501 701) and correspondingly longer studs for a "factory" look, consistent to the rest of the modifications on this car.

 

 

[carl888]

Thanks Peter,

Glad you can read PET..............

For the 930, up to and including the 1980 model year, spacers were fitted front and rear.

For the 930, 1981 model year onwards and therefore all turbo look cars, spacers were deleted for the front axle buy fitting a front hub that was extended for these vehicles.  i.e. different to the 911 SC/3.2 Carrera front hub.

For the rear, all 930s and turbo look cars have a rear spacer up to 1989.

No narrow/standard body cars ever had spacers ex factory.  Nor was it a factory option.

This is detailed in PET, as Peter quotes.

As an aside, unless the vehicle is fitted with spacers ex factory like the 930 or turbo look cars, or they are available as a factory option (e.g. option 415, Wider rear track with 21mm spacers, 928 only) spacers are illegal in Australia.

 

 

Here's the front, spacer #28A applies only to the 930 up to 1980 MY.  From 1981 onwards hub #25 is supplied in two versions, one for the standard car, one for the 930.

 

[carl888]

For the rear of the 930 and all turbo looks cars, there is a rear spacer, #40