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wangan

Garage Storage

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Hi all, 

I have recently moved house and will be storing my 3.2 911 in the garage. The new place has a pitched, colourbond/steel roof (exposed) with plastered walls. 

I've noticed with one of my old houses built in the 60's that tools left in the garage would always rust after a while. That was a tin roof with single brick exterior. 

My previous home was plastered in the garage and had no issues. 

My question/concern is storing the 911. I don't want to have any issues with rust in the future Does anyone here know much about this topic? 

Thanks! 

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Hi Wangan

I had the very same issue with my previous property so I purchased a car cocoon that worked fine for aprox. 4 years.

 

IMG_6416.JPG

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36 minutes ago, mal911 said:

Hi Wangan

I had the very same issue with my previous property so I purchased a car cocoon that worked fine for aprox. 4 years.

 

IMG_6416.JPG

Thanks for the reply @mal911 Is it expensive to run? 

It's a good solution solely for the car, but ideally I'd like the whole garage to be like that, so that I can leave tools and whatnot inside without having moisture issues. 

I've read about dehumidifiers, but it's very expensive and not the most effective if you're using the garage regularly. 

For reference here's a snap of my garage. 

Roof has a very high pitch, not sure if that makes it better or worse. 

 

20210910_093748.jpg

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w

13 hours ago, wangan said:

Hi all, 

I have recently moved house and will be storing my 3.2 911 in the garage. The new place has a pitched, colourbond/steel roof (exposed) with plastered walls. 

I've noticed with one of my old houses built in the 60's that tools left in the garage would always rust after a while. That was a tin roof with single brick exterior. 

My previous home was plastered in the garage and had no issues. 

My question/concern is storing the 911. I don't want to have any issues with rust in the future Does anyone here know much about this topic? 

Thanks! 

Before you go spending big coin on reno works and changes , just spend a  month or two with the car parked in the new garage along with some tools and see how things go , you may not have that issue in this garage ..

Obviously rusty tools is caused by high moisture content in the air , the reasons for that in your previous garage may not be present in this one , so just take time to see what the situation is with this one ..But it is very common for exposed corro sheets to build up condensation and sweat on the underside of the sheet due to the temp difference for inside and out . 

If the problem is relevant then lining the ceiling and insulating it will make a huge difference , even lowing the ceiling so you have a flat ceiling and creating a insulated storage area above with and addict ladder access would do wonders and give you extra storage space also ...

an example of bad condensation on underside of sheets 

 

 

4-600x548.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Raven said:

If the problem is relevant then lining the ceiling and insulating it will make a huge difference , even lowing the ceiling so you have a flat ceiling and creating a insulated storage area above with and addict ladder would do wonders and give you extra storage ...

Just make sure you've got enough height for the 2 or 4 poster hoist 😏  Attic storage with a drop down ladder is great, you will need to engineer the floor to take some weight, otherwise you're limited to lighter stuff up there (which is fine too 🙂 ).  We just have an area with normal trusses above our garage (just part of the house, not separate) and I had our builder put some flooring down close to the internal walls as support.  That way any weight isn't out near the un-supported middle of the ceiling.  Just wish I had height for a hoist 😞 

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Line the underside of the roof sheeting with a thermal blanket, then a layer of moisture barrier wrap, batten, then plaster. Worth considering a couple of ceiling fans to compliment that little refrigerated unit as well (due to the high ceiling) and any additional lighting so that wiring can be installed before you plaster. Maybe also a top hung power cord/GPO if you are planning to install a hoist to avoid power cables running along the floor....................just depends on how far you want to go. 

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28 minutes ago, hugh said:

Line the underside of the roof sheeting with a thermal blanket, then a layer of moisture barrier wrap, batten, then plaster. Worth considering a couple of ceiling fans to compliment that little refrigerated unit as well (due to the high ceiling) and any additional lighting so that wiring can be installed before you plaster. Maybe also a top hung power cord/GPO if you are planning to install a hoist to avoid power cables running along the floor....................just depends on how far you want to go. 

you sound like you know what you're talking about :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, crsedge said:

Why don't you insulate under the roof and plaster over it? 

I've been told that you need to have sisalation, or insulation put in before the roof goes on for it to work properly? The correct way would be remove all the sheets, roll out the sisalation and then maybe put bats inbetween the rafters and plater, as far as I know. Given its an older house (80's-90's), I've also been told not to remove the roof as there will be issues re affixing the panels again securely. So, it's a catch 22. 

3 hours ago, Raven said:

w

Before you go spending big coin on reno works and changes , just spend a  month or two with the car parked in the new garage along with some tools and see how things go , you may not have that issue in this garage ..

Obviously rusty tools is caused by high moisture content in the air , the reasons for that in your previous garage may not be present in this one , so just take time to see what the situation is with this one ..But it is very common for exposed corro sheets to build up condensation and sweat on the underside of the sheet due to the temp difference for inside and out . 

If the problem is relevant then lining the ceiling and insulating it will make a huge difference , even lowing the ceiling so you have a flat ceiling and creating a insulated storage area above with and addict ladder access would do wonders and give you extra storage space also ...

an example of bad condensation on underside of sheets 

 

 

4-600x548.jpg

Thanks @Raven. I have purchased a hygrometer to measure the humidity. I think that's the best way to tell if there's moisture?

What would be differences with the old garage and this one that could mean this wouldn't have the moisture and condensation on the roof? 

3 hours ago, TwoHeadsTas said:

Just make sure you've got enough height for the 2 or 4 poster hoist 😏  Attic storage with a drop down ladder is great, you will need to engineer the floor to take some weight, otherwise you're limited to lighter stuff up there (which is fine too 🙂 ).  We just have an area with normal trusses above our garage (just part of the house, not separate) and I had our builder put some flooring down close to the internal walls as support.  That way any weight isn't out near the un-supported middle of the ceiling.  Just wish I had height for a hoist 😞 

Thanks for the reply. I'm not too worried about a hoist or storage space. Ultimately I just don't want the car to rust up, that's all. 

3 hours ago, hugh said:

Line the underside of the roof sheeting with a thermal blanket, then a layer of moisture barrier wrap, batten, then plaster. Worth considering a couple of ceiling fans to compliment that little refrigerated unit as well (due to the high ceiling) and any additional lighting so that wiring can be installed before you plaster. Maybe also a top hung power cord/GPO if you are planning to install a hoist to avoid power cables running along the floor....................just depends on how far you want to go. 

Thanks @hugh. Can this be done without removing the roof? I've been advised about leaks and issues with properly securing the sheets once they've been removed as the sheats and garage are at least 30 years old. I'll be removing the fridge from the garage. Is the fan you've mentioned more to offset the heat it generates? 

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Removing the roof sheets and laying down thermal insulation blanket and then reinstalling sheets it the proper way to do it . but if that option is not available alternatively what Hugh has quote is the next best option ..

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16 hours ago, wangan said:

 @mal911

Roof has a very high pitch, not sure if that makes it better or worse. 

Better :)

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When it comes to moisture issues, there is really no substitute for fixing the root cause... I would agree with living with it to see if/where any issues may arise! Ditto on the airflow!! 

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I've got a colorbond roof - I don't know who told you they can't remove the sheets. I've had mine taken off and put back on 3 times in the last 13 years. Twice in the same spot.

It wouldn't be a large job for any competent roofer to sort out (couple of hours), but by the sounds someone has tried to sell you on the idea of a new roof in order to make it worth their while.

 

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2 hours ago, sleazius said:

but by the sounds someone has tried to sell you on the idea of a new roof in order to make it worth their while.

 

 That was my first thought

"Oh mate, ya roof sheets are knackered. You need these new fandangled moisture proof ones just for this application. I'll look after ya, as they're not cheap!" 

 @wangan

Theres a roofing product that I can't for the life of me remember the name of, yet its basically two sheets of colourbond with some foam insulation (about 30mm) wedged/stuck between them.

 Think its this stuff

https://www.metroll.com.au/products/home-improvements/insulroof-insulated-roof-panels/

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Wangan,

Potentially a great garage!  Insulating the roof will make it much more useable in summer and will control any roof condensation issues.

Looking at your roof structure and assuming you don't intend to line the ceiling with plasterboard or villaboard, I would fix a light gauge wire horizontally to the rafters at about 600mm spacing.  I would then fill the space between each rafter with rockwool or fibreglass insulation batts, relying on the wires to hold them in place.  Done!

If you intend to line the ceiling at a later date you would use timber or light gauge metal battens instead of wire.

Any insulation installer would be pleased to give you a quote to do the above.

No need to remove the roof at all and you get a more effective insultation R value than you can achieve with under roof sheeting anticon or blankets. 

 

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5 hours ago, edgy said:

When it comes to moisture issues, there is really no substitute for fixing the root cause... I would agree with living with it to see if/where any issues may arise! Ditto on the airflow!! 

@edgyWouldn't the root cause of moisture in a tin roof be the condensation? 

 

4 hours ago, sleazius said:

I've got a colorbond roof - I don't know who told you they can't remove the sheets. I've had mine taken off and put back on 3 times in the last 13 years. Twice in the same spot.

It wouldn't be a large job for any competent roofer to sort out (couple of hours), but by the sounds someone has tried to sell you on the idea of a new roof in order to make it worth their while.

 

@sleaziusIt wasn't a roofer who advised me, just a friend. They said it more for the timber. Being old timber rafter and using the same 65mm bolts to secure the panel, the more time you remove and insert the screws, the less strength they have, as opposed to metal rafters, if that's makes sense. It was just a concern really. 

27 minutes ago, Peter M said:

Wangan,

Potentially a great garage!  Insulating the roof will make it much more useable in summer and will control any roof condensation issues.

Looking at your roof structure and assuming you don't intend to line the ceiling with plasterboard or villaboard, I would fix a light gauge wire horizontally to the rafters at about 600mm spacing.  I would then fill the space between each rafter with rockwool or fibreglass insulation batts, relying on the wires to hold them in place.  Done!

If you intend to line the ceiling at a later date you would use timber or light gauge metal battens instead of wire.

Any insulation installer would be pleased to give you a quote to do the above.

No need to remove the roof at all and you get a more effective insultation R value than you can achieve with under roof sheeting anticon or blankets. 

 

Thanks @Peter M

I'm not too worried about the heat, or cold in the summer and winter months. The main concern I have is keeping the car in tip top shape. If leaving it as it is won't make a difference, I'm happy to do that too. 

With the way you've mentioned, if there is condensation forming, it would then be absorbed by the battens and not dry causing moisture problems? I thought the whole point of removing the sheets was to create a moisture lock so that the condensation can't get through and has no choice to slide down the sisalation into the gutters? 

Is there an easy way to test if there is too much moisture in the garage? For example a certain item I can leave out, over a day week or month that will show me? 

Thanks for everyone's assistance. Being in finance, this is new thing for me, so a bit of a learning curve. Apologies if some of the questions don't make sense. 

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2 hours ago, Peter M said:

Looking at your roof structure and assuming you don't intend to line the ceiling with plasterboard or villaboard, I would fix a light gauge wire horizontally to the rafters at about 600mm spacing.  I would then fill the space between each rafter with rockwool or fibreglass insulation batts, relying on the wires to hold them in place. 

 

That sounds potentially very itchy.

Doesn’t anybody turn the air con on when the windscreen fogs up?  Same problem.

Instal an air conditioner, preferably reverse cycle, so you can use the shed all year round.  

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This is the type insulation you need trim it to fit and use the the chook wire as Peter M reconmends. Or a cheap ply board can be easy to apply and look good to boot.

https://pricewiseinsulation.com.au/product/knauf-earthwool-roofing-blanket-roll-with-foil-facing/?gclid=Cj0KCQjws4aKBhDPARIsAIWH0JWFOrvtlFREYdNdcuTZH7mQhI9rUiRstNHFRXVAA5mLC4_4RyOzk4oaAu1gEALw_wcB

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17 hours ago, wangan said:

Wouldn't the root cause of moisture in a tin roof be the condensation? 

Of course, but if the room were non permeable then you'd have far less R/H to condensate! 

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I agree with Hugh.

As an ex builder insulate and if possible plaster the ceiling.

 

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21 hours ago, OZ930 said:

That sounds potentially very itchy.

Doesn’t anybody turn the air con on when the windscreen fogs up?  Same problem.

Instal an air conditioner, preferably reverse cycle, so you can use the shed all year round.  

It's more for the damage that's done when the air con isn't on though really. Cold nights, humid days etc. 

21 hours ago, tomo said:

This is the type insulation you need trim it to fit and use the the chook wire as Peter M reconmends. Or a cheap ply board can be easy to apply and look good to boot.

https://pricewiseinsulation.com.au/product/knauf-earthwool-roofing-blanket-roll-with-foil-facing/?gclid=Cj0KCQjws4aKBhDPARIsAIWH0JWFOrvtlFREYdNdcuTZH7mQhI9rUiRstNHFRXVAA5mLC4_4RyOzk4oaAu1gEALw_wcB

Thanks @tomo can you use plaster, ply and cement sheeting with this? 

3 hours ago, philipk said:

I agree with Hugh.

As an ex builder insulate and if possible plaster the ceiling.

 

Thanks @philipk is there any issue with just installing the insulation from underneath instead of taking the sheets off? Or is it better to remove sheets?

I might get a few quotes. 

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1 hour ago, wangan said:

Thanks @tomo can you use plaster, ply and cement sheeting with this? 

Did the same in my shed using 3mm ply,To have the timber look , Been there for 17 years no problems, And is a flat roof 2 degree pitch,Yours should be fine cheers.

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