Porsche to build Singer engines

[tomo]

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/01/porsche-indicates-approval-of-singer-vehicles-by-signing-deal-to-build-their-engines/amp/

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/amp38698954/singer-engines-porsche-motorsport-north-america/

[Peter M]

I guess it alleviates the need to explain who Ed Pink is to potential customers!

I've also wondered how the Singer business model will cope with eventually running out of 964 to rebuild.  I guess this potentially opens the doors for Porsche to start supplying new bodies in white to fill this looming  void. 

[MFX]

2 hours ago, Peter M said:

I guess it alleviates the need to explain who Ed Pink is to potential customers!

Or the fact that Ed Pink has no part in the business

2 hours ago, Peter M said:

I've also wondered how the Singer business model will cope with eventually running out of 964 to rebuild.  I guess this potentially opens the doors for Porsche to start supplying new bodies in white to fill the eventual void. 

I don't think it would be too hard to change over to 993's and start to suck up the supply of them instead

[Zelrik911]

34 minutes ago, MFX said:

I don't think it would be too hard to change over to 993's and start to suck up the supply of them instead

993's were always quite expensive in US compared to 964s; plus they had lost the classic 911 G body look ( a little bit) - so I dont think potential customers would go for it quite like the original idea.

Maybe they will move into the earlier G body cars & do a 'tasteful' 2022 version of a HotRod that your girlfriend can drive in stilettos in Beverly Hills!!

[MFX]

2 minutes ago, Zelrik911 said:

993's were always quite expensive in US compared to 964s; plus they had lost the classic 911 G body look ( a little bit) - so I dont think potential customers would go for it quite like the original idea.

Maybe they will move into the earlier G body cars & do a 'tasteful' 2022 version of a HotRod that your girlfriend can drive in stilettos in Beverly Hills!!

Think 993's would take a lot less work to build a Singer from than G body cars. All of the cosmetic exterior is replaced anyway, and under the skin the 993 is much closer to the 964 with similar suspension, dash, etc, etc. G Body needs a whole lot more updates. Also Singer doesn't care what the base car costs. That is the customers problem

[LeeM]

 I'd say its also reasonably easy for a mob like Singer to go nuts on a G body to bring it up to spec too. That would jump the prices up even further for old G body's, though with the current 2 or 3 year waiting list, I'm sure they're not going to stress about that anytime soon.

[Carrera28]

2 hours ago, MFX said:

Think 993's would take a lot less work to build a Singer from than G body cars. All of the cosmetic exterior is replaced anyway, and under the skin the 993 is much closer to the 964 with similar suspension, dash, etc, etc. G Body needs a whole lot more updates. Also Singer doesn't care what the base car costs. That is the customers problem

I agree, I thought Kaege preferred to work on 993's for their retro models and they are definitely as retro as Singer, albeit maybe with a ting amount of more eccentricity and a tiny amount  less slickness

. 

[sleazius]

66571 units made. They aren’t running out of 964s. Singer has worked on 150 cars give or take, and I’m not sure how many of those are genuine ‘Singer’s. How many can they currently build? 25 a year? They must have expanded capacity an extreme amount from the days when they were doing 5 cars a year.

[MFX]

2 hours ago, sleazius said:

66571 units made. They aren’t running out of 964s. Singer has worked on 150 cars give or take, and I’m not sure how many of those are genuine ‘Singer’s. How many can they currently build? 25 a year? They must have expanded capacity an extreme amount from the days when they were doing 5 cars a year.

Very true. There are a lot of Singer 'pretenders' who 'can do basically the same thing for half the price'. As someone who was inspired by Singer, I can attest that it is not that easy to get to Singers level. Singer will probably move to redo some of those 'pretenders' cars in the future too

[Peter M]

8 hours ago, MFX said:

Or the fact that Ed Pink has no part in the business

Not Ed himself of course but the company he established and later sold: Peek inside Ed Pink Racing to see where Singer gets its engines (motorauthority.com)

4 hours ago, sleazius said:

66571 units made. They aren’t running out of 964s. Singer has worked on 150 cars give or take, and I’m not sure how many of those are genuine ‘Singer’s. How many can they currently build? 25 a year? They must have expanded capacity an extreme amount from the days when they were doing 5 cars a year.

But at what cost?  They're not getting any cheaper, particularly now they have gone from Porsche's embarrassment to hipster hotcakes. Surely if they could access cheaper and new bodies in white, that would have to be a winner for them.  Also gives them the chance to do a bit of reengineering ala RUF.

I don't think old 993's are an alternative as they carry the same cost premium now as the 964's

6 hours ago, LeeM said:

 I'd say its also reasonably easy for a mob like Singer to go nuts on a G body to bring it up to spec too. That would jump the prices up even further for old G body's, though with the current 2 or 3 year waiting list, I'm sure they're not going to stress about that anytime soon.

Whilst the prospect of the value of G bodies doubling again is attractive, they are far too quaint (ie crude and old fashion) to meet the expectations of this big $$$ market.

[sleazius]

3 hours ago, Peter M said:

Not Ed himself of course but the company he established and later sold: Peek inside Ed Pink Racing to see where Singer gets its engines (motorauthority.com)

But at what cost?  They're not getting any cheaper, particularly now they have gone from Porsche's embarrassment to hipster hotcakes. Surely if they could access cheaper and new bodies in white, that would have to be a winner for them.  Also gives them the chance to do a bit of reengineering ala RUF.

I don't think old 993's are an alternative as they carry the same cost premium now as the 964's

Whilst the prospect of the value of G bodies doubling again is attractive, they are far too quaint (ie crude and old fashion) to meet the expectations of this big $$$ market.

Cheapest build is USD500k plus the car. Most are $800kish, and a DLS will set you back $2M. That is AUD$3M plus landed here. Plus you wait minimum 3 years for the privilege these days. Whilst I agree with your point re: ease of access to shells, I really don’t think the people buying these give two shits about $100k here or there on the overall spend.

 

[Coastr]

Singer original plan was g-body.  There are videos around explaining why they went to 964.  I think it started with wheel fitment and went from there.  Suspension is better, comes with a 3.6, a few other things. 

Ruf are making their own bodies.  The problem with a new body is it’s no longer a restoration and new standards have to be met.  Ruf have tuv approval somehow.   You need an old VIN so you don’t have to certify to 2022 standards.  As already stated singer doesn’t care about the donor car cost.  That’s the customer problem.  And the customer don’t care. 

[sleazius]

Pretty sure for the DLS it is just the VIN, and the chassis that are used. Original mileage is transferred to the new car but I don't think they even use any of the original instruments.

[tomo]

https://www.motor1.com/news/559608/porsche-build-singer-engines/amp/