Buying a new 991 S.

[BMERRERA]

Hi every one,

 

I'm a new member. Always loved the marque. Recently developed a passion since seen the new car (991) especially the S with PDK.

So much that it's making me give up my 3 y.o. BMW X5 fully loaded.

But as everyone shares the same opinion we are paying too much in this land. So thought of importing from UK, but no chance!

Anyhow, almost, decided to buy new locally. Looked up on some of the international forums on ways of approaching the deal with dealers and all clues relate to US in which they suggesting the bargaining process that achieves up to 20% discount off the list price!

 

Can any member share their experience or suggestions? And the best way to approach a dealership in order to get the best result.

 

Cheers

[GC9911]

Good luck!

[wasserkuhl]

Sell your trade in first and have your finance ready so you are a cash buyer.

 

They can't hold your trade in over you nor can they hold their financing options over you. If you walk in with cash ready to go you hold the power to get the best deal you can.

 

However, you may be able to get a very low finance rate with Porsche but pay closer to list price. If you seek finance elsewhere you will have to pay circa 6%-8%. So weigh up the difference between cheap finance and discount on list price.

 

Ring dealers around Australia after you have approached your nearest one to see if they can do a better deal for you.

 

Some dealers may have a near new demonstrator in the spec you want and be able to knock a fair chunk off the List.

 

They will give you buttons on your trade as they will simply wholesale it afterwards.

 

Walk in ready to buy. Be assertive and positive about what you want. You are spending lots of cash with them and their margin on a new 991S is sizeable.

 

Forget the US market. They may be able to get 20% off. You Will definitely not get 20% off list on a new Porsche 911. The best you can hope for is 8-12% if you have your finance ready to go.

[GC9911]

Agree with Wasser,

8-12% off is pretty accurate, but 8-12% is better in my pocket than theirs. Mind you when I'm driving my 991 I never think " gee if I just held out a little longer I could have saved another $500" actually I don't think about the money at all, I get much more pleasure from my 911 than numbers on the bank statement.

[D-banger]

A UK price list for reference sake...and make us Aussies cry.

 

PS Surely there are some good deals going on 2012 reg cars?

 

[teknostar]

It is really heartbreaking to look at Uk / US / EU pricing on Porsche's at the moment... (even more than normal given the recent price hike)

 

All things considered, I would have thought that it would prop up 997 values somewhat, but they seem to be moving south fast

[ArthurK]

BMerrera,

 

I recently took delivery of a custom ordered 991S Cab and the process of buying the 991 let quite a sour taste in my mouth. I have had a 14 year relationship with PCM and it counted for nothing when looking at buying the 991 and their discounting. If you are looking at buying new then be prepared to pay top dollar for it. I am more than happy to talk about pricing and what I paid for mine vs RRP but rather do it offline. To give you an indication of how bad the experience was, I nearly ended up in a car that I would have loved and hated at the same time as it wasn't/isn't me.

 

Depending on where you live you will either have one dealership taking care of the state or more than one like, Melbourne, Sydney and Queensland have. Now here is the pain in the arse issue. You cannot cross shop across the boarders! They have an unwritten rule to not sell to interstate clients. Found out this through a close friend that works at a dealership that I wont name. If you find a car you like then push, push and push even harder. They are not moving as many as they would like. I can get you the VFACTS stats for what they have sold over the last year, a bit of ammo in negotiating a deal.

 

When it comes to discounting the company line is virtually 2% on a custom order. If you find dealer floor stock negotiate as hard as you can and see if you can find value in a prebuilt car and settle on some minor compromises (not that there is a compromise when buying one of these machines). I can assure you, you can push for a reasonable discount if you are prepared to totally walk away from the deal and be prepared to wait for the right deal to come along. My buying process took me 8 months and 6 months of waiting for it to arrive. You dont drop $300K+ lightly................

 

Regards

Arthur

[T-Man]

You want to negotiate the best price................take my wife with you!

I'm not kidding.

How many "Company" owned vs "Franchise" do Porsche have now? Are there benefits to shopping at one or the other?

[ArthurK]

My wife is too smart for her own good She got the dealer off side with way too much industry knowledge you can care for.......

 

Mind you she was the one who got the ball rolling about buying the 991 (and the 996 for that matter back in '01).

[T-Man]

Mind you she was the one who got the ball rolling about buying the 991 (and the 996 for that matter back in '01).

She's a keeper Arthur!!!

[PeterP]

I'm happy to offer my wife as a trade in........Oops, only joking..!!  

[BMERRERA]

Thanks guys for all your thoughts.

I guess I'm going to have some challenge in front of me, as mentioned before by one member there are not many shops to shop around either, damn things.

About the recent price hike, I think whatever discount that any Porsche dealer around the world gives to their clients there is always room for them to screw us guys down-under as our government is also on their side and doesn't give a S##t about us!? so long as they get a bit on the side too. So in here we are making up for any short falls that Porsche marque may have.

 

Any Queenslanders on board to tell us about their experience?

 

Thanks Heaps

[BMERRERA]

Do these dealers have surplus new 911s at the back of the shop,so to speak, or whatever is on the floor as demos?

 

To the best of my knowledge when I checked all the dealers websites around the country there is no new ones and they are all 2012 stock as demos, unless you build your own.

[Jimmy]

I was at a Porsche Centre this morning and we spoke about new car sales and he said they cant keep up with sales,

when l asked which models he said the Cayennes are selling like hot cakes, but when I asked about 911 cars he said

they hardly moving any as they are over priced and that a 911 S model is around 300k is way too much.

 

He also mentioned they are putting pressure on Porsche HQ to lower the prices by a big margin if they want to improve sales.

 

So there you have it, straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

 

Jim

[ArthurK]

Jim,

 

They only have themselves to blame. PCM being a factory dealership also plays funny buggers with its clients. An independent is more likely to deal more aggressively with a new client.

 

Regards

Arthur

[BMERRERA]

Jim,

 

Do you think they are likely to be serious about lowering the price  on 911's?

Then the poor buggers that been sucked in already will be jumping up and down!

Or perhaps they may ask their dealers to be bit easy on new buyers and keep it a hush hush business.

 

Mick

[ArthurK]

Jim,

 

Do you think they are likely to be serious about lowering the price  on 911's?

Then the poor buggers that been sucked in already will be jumping up and down!

Or perhaps they may ask their dealers to be bit easy on new buyers and keep it a hush hush business.

 

Mick

No they arent because they will piss all existing 991 clients off to no end. MB did that and the backlash was huge. All they will do is bundle more options as standard options rather than drop the price.

[Coastr]

I have little to add to this discussion having never bought a new car in my life.

 

The reason the US can be more flexible will be a combination of more independent dealers, more competition from other marques and the fact that anyone can scarper off to Europe and buy one there and bring it back if they want.

 

In Australia the government has handed Porsche HQ the ability to gouge customers because the restrictions on parallell imports (ie, you can't go to the UK and buy one, nor NZ, nor Japan, HK or Singapore)  So Porsche controls the dealer process and there is only one way to buy a new Porsche.

 

You can hardly blame them, most businesses granted monopoly-like powers will take advantage either deliberately or just via taking the path of least resistance.

 

I understand the argument about not destroying the used value of Porsches by lowering the price, but the 996/997 range seems headed for S-Class style depreciation anyway.  I would guess we are only a year or two away from $15k 996s.  Keeping the price in the stratosphere, at least 100k too much, can't last forever and therefore won't.  Porsche has to decide if they are a purveyor of 4wds or Sports cars in this country.  Sooner or later the dam will burst, whether it is a legislation change allowing parallel imports, or just a buyers revolt of sorts.  Unfortunately the worst outcome seems to be the most likely, which is the slowing of 911 sales in Australia to an absolute trickle, thus denying enthusiasts a pipeline of used vehicles in the future.

 

If you ask me, I would guess that the 993 will be the last Porsche that seriously holds its value.  Everything since is plummeting.

[ArthurK]

Coastr,

 

It is easy and quite a simple argument that it is the governments fault. At the end of the day though I dont buy into that theory. If Porsche really respected its clients and the marque progression in Australia they would not have done what they did with the 991. At no point in time should they have increased by 10% when the currency had also gone 30% in their favour. Which other market had a swing of 40% to Porsche AG's favour through this?. Really not good enough on their behalf.

 

I went through the same argument with a member on rennlist.com and he, being a US based consumer basically turned around and said the price difference is government taxes. We really like scapegoating everything as being a government issue. My wife was recapped a conversation where two MDs were having a discussing on the pricing of the German marques cars in Australia vs ROW and the German MD responded with "We sell them at this price because they just keep on buying them......." Crap!, what an attitude to have! Now I am not this marques target audience, even though I tried to buy one of their cars as a Porsche substitute but I can tell you now I wouldnt be caught in one of their cars after my pre purchase experience or their MD's comments.

 

Like a nob I ended up buying a new 991, why because I like the new cars. Was I happy about getting screwed over no but realistically if you want it you have to play in their back yard and the price of admission is high. I swore I would never buy another new 911 but that didnt last long. There are enough idiots like me out there that will tick over the 300 911 they sell each year. Their bread and butter is now Cayenne and the 911 is reserved for dumb arse clients like me. I lost $45K on my 996 in 4 years of ownership this time round it wont be so pleasant...........

 

Rant off........

[Jimmy]

Both of our lap tops are occupied by our kids and l am using an android tablet which does not like this site,

I just posted a comment and seems to have disapeard

I am about to throw it through the window.

[T-Man]

Lots of very valid points Coastr. There is NO doubt that Porsche HQ in conjunction with the dealerships are taking the Australian public for as much as they can. The government is not interested in changing legislation. The luxury car tax starts at $57K and the higher the value of sale, the more GST they collect.

 

IMHO the "value" of Porsches is way overrated in today's market. Unless the , model is "rare" it will depreciate as quickly as any other luxury car, particularly once the warranty is over. 

 

I recall a thread somewhere where Matthias Muller was quizzed by an Aussie journo as to why the pricing was so high. He is still looking into it!!!!!!!!!

[ArthurK]

Lots of very valid points Coastr. There is NO doubt that Porsche HQ in conjunction with the dealerships are taking the Australian public for as much as they can. The government is not interested in changing legislation. The luxury car tax starts at $57K and the higher the value of sale, the more GST they collect.

 

IMHO the "value" of Porsches is way overrated in today's market. Unless the , model is "rare" it will depreciate as quickly as any other luxury car, particularly once the warranty is over. 

 

I recall a thread somewhere where Matthias Muller was quizzed by an Aussie journo as to why the pricing was so high. He is still looking into it!!!!!!!!!

 

Theo the biggest issue we have is that in this price bracket you really do not have many other competitors to the 911. There are plenty of amazing cars but not really upto the standard of performance and practicality of the 911. The market is really 911, Aston Martin, Maserati, and to a lesser extent Audi, MB and BMW. Ferarri is in a different league, or so they believe, well the 458 really is. Out of the current batch of cars the 991 is a stand out. The AM Vantage looks great but it disappoints in the performance stakes. I personally believe the AM is one of the sexiests cars on the road but it drives hohum. The Maserati is bloated yet one of the most intoxicating exhaust notes found in cars. That alone doesnt make it brilliant. Dont get me wrong I would take either of those two and park it next to a 911. I nearly bought an F430 since Porsche pissed me off so much but I know I wouldnt have been happy, I have never been passionate about Ferarri or their product I would have done it just to piss my dealer off. Overpriced or not it is driven by market dynamics and they currently believe they can sell them at the price they have them at. 

 

I guess the thread has drifted from the what the OP had requested. I am more than happy to exchange emails if he likes on what I paid and the discounts received and how hard you can push to get the purchase done. This is based on custom order not shop floor. Shop floor is a different ball game all together and more aggressive purchasing can be had.

[Jimmy]

Jim,

 

Do you think they are likely to be serious about lowering the price  on 911's?

Then the poor buggers that been sucked in already will be jumping up and down!

Or perhaps they may ask their dealers to be bit easy on new buyers and keep it a hush hush business.

 

Mick

 

 

Mick,

 

Porsche only have them selves to blame, the price increases have been too huge compared to previous models and other countries.

 

Take AMG for example yes very different cars but  AMG Aust are continuously breaking their

own records to the point where we are the largest consumers of AMG's IN THE WORLD ...!!!

and as we speak are making huge plans to expand even further.

 

Why ? because they have got it right and their heads aren't up their behinds, they are competitive in this market and they actually listen to and value their customers opinions.

 

So back to your question  "poor buggers that been sucked in already will be jumping up and down" only Porsche HQ can answer to that sticky situation.

 

BUT having said all that ...l love them and IMO there is nothing quite like a 911 and

l will have one till the day I die...!!!!

[BMERRERA]

you are right Jim, I see AMG's left, right and centre these days and their affordability is much better now.

there were days that these card were so out of reach that only a few could buy them as perhaps Porsches are and were.

 

unfortunately that's the situation and if we want them then have to dance to their tune, somewhat! if we don't haggle!

 

I also think that we can partially blame our authorities too. they don't have any say in the market place in terms of price regulation etc. ( job of ACCC). they themselve screwing the public with the so called LCT and others, so as long as they getting their share they let the other foreign Co.s screw the public too! simply have no interest so long as they keep the union of the local car makers happy.

 

Mick

[Coastr]

you are right Jim, I see AMG's left, right and centre these days and their affordability is much better now.

there were days that these card were so out of reach that only a few could buy them as perhaps Porsches are and were.

 

unfortunately that's the situation and if we want them then have to dance to their tune, somewhat! if we don't haggle!

 

I also think that we can partially blame our authorities too. they don't have any say in the market place in terms of price regulation etc. ( job of ACCC). they themselve screwing the public with the so called LCT and others, so as long as they getting their share they let the other foreign Co.s screw the public too! simply have no interest so long as they keep the union of the local car makers happy.

 

Mick

 

 

Apparently Merc insiders jokingly refer to AMG as standing for 'Australian Market Growth'

 

There is a lesson in there for Porsche.  They see it themselves with the Cayenne, selling like hotcakes because it's priced realistically.

 

The only people buying 911s right now are die-hard fans who woudn't realistically buy anything else.  It might be true that there is no comparison between a Vantage or a Maserati and a 911, but for many prospective customers they are looking for image + a bit of performance and wouldn't dream of taking it near a track.  They may not be true enthusiasts but they do keep a company and a product alive.   WItness the plethora of '80s Porsches around and you know that many were purchased by someone in the market for a sports car at the time who may well have been deciding between it and a BMW 635csi and a Benz SL.

 

If they took a series of well executed price cuts you could have the price back into realistic territory over a 3-4 year period.  Yes, some would be upset by sharp depreciation, but then you'd think they would be happy about getting a better car for a much lower price down the track.  Ultimately it's better for a company to set itself on a course to grow their market in the future than to try and pander to a dwindling supply of customers now.

 

Look at VW.  When the Golf wound up Australian sales in the late 80s, they were moving a handful of cars.  And for good reason - the Golf was expensive and slow compared to the competition at the time.  Only a true VW nut would have bought one, and they are the only ones that did.

 

When they re-launched the Golf a few years later, they repriced it drastically - and now you can't move for the things.   They didn't stare at their navels and say 'but a VW is a premium product who only sells to discerning buyers'.  They kept the quality image but started pricing realistically, and the buyers responded in droves.

 

There is probably a factional war going on in Porsche HQ now on this very issue.  I hope there is, and I hope the right people win out in the end.