sleazius Posted 26July, 2022 Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 I don't know how many of you are into watches, but i'm on all of the major second hand dealers mailing lists, and the increase in volume of watches for sale is something else over the last 2 months. Nicholas Hacko especially. Anyone else notice this? I wasn't into watches during the GFC, so I don't know what happened then but I can imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on_booost Posted 26July, 2022 Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 Hmmmm. The asset Bubble is real - but i personally feel (don't listen to a word i say - Im a dumbo) that Rolex / Omega / Breitling or Patek or something that is a real tangible (not saying anything about values) would be less immune that say a NFT or Crypto? If you want to use them as a canary - look at what's happened to Bitcoin/Etherium et al in just 6 months.... On a side note - Rolex as a company and retailer are toast. Their ploy to limit mass produced watches to try and retain/drive up values couldnt have come at a worse time (Covid) and their main market (China) is a mess.. If you consider that of Chinese households - the majority (Like over 85%) of the wealth is tied in housing and the crisis going on there - I reckon its just a ticking time bomb.... But DO NOT LISTEN TO ME - I buy High and sell low. Simon GC9911, Raven, Joz and 1 other 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleazius Posted 26July, 2022 Author Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 35 minutes ago, on_booost said: But DO NOT LISTEN TO ME - I buy High and sell low. I felt this in my bones GC9911 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted 26July, 2022 Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 Like many things watch prices went stupid doing the global lockdowns. I sold a watch (AP) for triple the price I purchased it new 4 years ago. I personally think it should have been worth LESS than I paid but the market was dumb. I think now prices are just slowly coming back to what they should be. Just IMO But they still have a ways to go to get to pre COVID prices. But I've also noticed most of the second harnd dealers are not turning over inventory like they were 12 months ago. Lots of "hot" items still listed 6 months later. Raven 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1q2w3e4r Posted 26July, 2022 Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 3 hours ago, sleazius said: I don't know how many of you are into watches, but i'm on all of the major second hand dealers mailing lists, and the increase in volume of watches for sale is something else over the last 2 months. Nicholas Hacko especially. Anyone else notice this? I wasn't into watches during the GFC, so I don't know what happened then but I can imagine. yeah. Was pretty interesting to watch over the last few years, . The AP prices (steel) and things like Daytona's (stainless steel at 70k 🤣) are perplexing, why the price of a 5167 suddenly went from $60k in early 2021 to $140k in early 2022 I don't quite get. Guess its supply constraints. On the secondary market I would agree it seems there much of the asking prices have come off in the last 2 months or so. 3 hours ago, on_booost said: Hmmmm. The asset Bubble is real - but i personally feel (don't listen to a word i say - Im a dumbo) that Rolex / Omega / Breitling or Patek or something that is a real tangible (not saying anything about values) would be less immune that say a NFT or Crypto? If you want to use them as a canary - look at what's happened to Bitcoin/Etherium et al in just 6 months.... On a side note - Rolex as a company and retailer are toast. Their ploy to limit mass produced watches to try and retain/drive up values couldnt have come at a worse time (Covid) and their main market (China) is a mess.. If you consider that of Chinese households - the majority (Like over 85%) of the wealth is tied in housing and the crisis going on there - I reckon its just a ticking time bomb.... But DO NOT LISTEN TO ME - I buy High and sell low. Simon https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/rolex-finally-comments-on-the-product-shortage-and-conspiracy-theories-need-not-apply "The scarcity of our products is not a strategy on our part. Our current production cannot meet the existing demand in an exhaustive way, at least not without reducing the quality of our watches – something we refuse to do as the quality of our products must never be compromised. This level of excellence requires time, and as we have always done, we will continue to take the necessary time to ensure that all our watches not only comply with our standards of excellence, but also meet the expectations of our customers in terms of quality, reliability and robustness. Rolex does not compromise on what it takes to produce exceptional watches.All Rolex watches are developed and produced in-house at our four sites in Switzerland. They are assembled by hand, with extreme care, to meet the brand's unique and high-quality standards of quality, performance and aesthetics. Understandably, this naturally restricts our production capacities – which we continue to increase as much as possible and always according to our quality criteria. Finally, it should be noted that Rolex watches are available exclusively from official retailers, who independently manage the allocation of watches to customers." – ROLEX https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/are-there-too-few-rolex-or-too-many-millionaires Naldz88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleazius Posted 26July, 2022 Author Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 I don't get the ultra high end watches other than in a "I earn this every hour so meh" way. Peter M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted 26July, 2022 Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 Not related to watches specifically, but I was listening to someone discus US realestate on a podcast the other week and he made a point that I think applies to any less than perfectly liquid asset - when a market softens the price declines happen “slowly, then all at once” as the saying goes … Sellers are always reluctant to let go of the price they “think” they can get, because of the previous high watermark, but eventually ‘supply’ builds until there’s a run for the exits as people start selling for whatever they can get … Not saying this will happen to watches, Porsches, houses or anything in particular, COVID broke my crystal ball I can tell you, but the psychology is interesting and explains why prices always stay up a bit longer than you think they will when “everybody knows there’s a decline coming” … as I’m sure we’ve all seen at some time in some area we follow … sjm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWY Posted 26July, 2022 Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 Resellers only taking watches on consignment and not buying outright to display in their stores currently. I think high print on a Panda was $82,500 in Jan 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Krix Posted 26July, 2022 Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 I have been collecting , buying and selling for 40 years. Recently I put up a number of watches for sale, , not so much because of the current , in my opinion artificial rise in value, but for helping to finance current projects. Got cold feet and tucked them away again. Have another look in 10 years. In my opinion vintage high end watches are a very solid investment.⏰💵 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cafe_racer Posted 26July, 2022 Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 3 hours ago, sleazius said: I don't get the ultra high end watches other than in a "I earn this every hour so meh" way. I was into watches, then i got an apple watch. My home is all home kit enabled, so i can unlock doors, turn on lights and many other things by talking to my watch. I found my fancy watches served no other purpose than to flex some wealth on people. I then realised I am comfortable enough with myself to not feel the need to flex wealth and no longer have any fancy watches. It's such an interesting thing, there is minimal utility to these expensive watches, they are just rich guy beanie babies. FAP911, GC9911, Joz and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Krix Posted 26July, 2022 Report Share Posted 26July, 2022 16 minutes ago, cafe_racer said: I was into watches, then i got an apple watch. My home is all home kit enabled, so i can unlock doors, turn on lights and many other things by talking to my watch. I found my fancy watches served no other purpose than to flex some wealth on people. I then realised I am comfortable enough with myself to not feel the need to flex wealth and no longer have any fancy watches. It's such an interesting thing, there is minimal utility to these expensive watches, they are just rich guy beanie babies. I guess everybody has their own reasoning and opinion. Why do people drive a Porsche ? Is it to” flex some wealth on people”?, or is it the enjoyment of experiencing the engineering , design and driving such a fine machine? To me all of my watches tell a story , I appreciate the design of a dial or case , marvel in the history of a movement , the development and engineering of it . I am able to repair watches , I am conscious of the incredible development of manufacturing processes , unique machining and the century old evolution to come to the standards we have today. Just totally in to it . luzzo, Skidmarks, Peter M and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cafe_racer Posted 27July, 2022 Report Share Posted 27July, 2022 Totally get your point, I find the utility of a nice porsche higher than a camry, some might say they both do get you A-B. But you can't really track day a Camry. All watches tell time, and the cheaper ones often have more functionality. But I do get how some people can totally geek out on, and enjoy the engineering aspect of a watch. As you said, each to their own, thankfully not everyone likes the same things. LeeM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeM Posted 27July, 2022 Report Share Posted 27July, 2022 You basically posted what I was going to say @cafe_racer (except the Camry bit 😁) I wanted to 'Keep up with the Joneses' when I saw what watches people were wearing when I first got into Porsches, and even looked at a loan to buy an Omega just to fit in, yet common sense prevailed (rare for me being an impulse buyer), and I just bought used Citizen eco drives, Seiko's and Gshock Mudmasters, though I still have to Google how to adjust the time on the Mudmasters 🙄 Most people live by their means, and if anyone can afford a Rolex or Omega, or even a 911RS, then more power to them. I know if I won a load of cash, my first purchase would be a Graham ChronoFighter! GC9911 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 27July, 2022 Report Share Posted 27July, 2022 I'm not into watches, I hate time, it is the enemy in my eyes... Anyhow, to the OP's point, I do dabble in wine and I can tell you the higher priced bottles generally do not come away with a result in their first showing, had a friend recently list some blue chip and the 2nd time round they lowered reserve by about 15% to get a result. I think this is already trickling back to cars, its just stubborn fisherman leaving their BS high listing prices on their unsold stock on car sales and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmy Posted 27July, 2022 Report Share Posted 27July, 2022 Not sure but this Camry looks pretty fast 😛 Arne Krix, cafe_racer, LeeM and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB911 Posted 27July, 2022 Report Share Posted 27July, 2022 I'm looking at a watch from Nicholas Hacko at the moment, but haven't bought any watches online before. Most of my collection have been bought new, or from dealers in Melbourne where I could see the watch "in person". Anyone have dealings with them? Straight shooters? Reasonably priced? Concerns/reservations if a watch comes with box but no receipts/papers? How much does that devalue the watch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoHeadsTas Posted 27July, 2022 Report Share Posted 27July, 2022 I'm waiting for one of these to be delivered next month. Not hugely expensive, but a little semi-retirement present to myself: https://www.panzera.shop/time-master-chronograph/ I also got this Seiko Chronograph for my 18th or 21st birthday, and following a discussion with @Jedly became aware that it is now a collectable watch (but I guess very much at the lower end of the scale 🙂). I had it refurbed by a guy in Adelaide and am very happy. Working perfectly still after 40 or so years 🙂 LeeM, Carrera28 and Arne Krix 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arne Krix Posted 27July, 2022 Report Share Posted 27July, 2022 2 hours ago, JB911 said: I'm looking at a watch from Nicholas Hacko at the moment, but haven't bought any watches online before. Most of my collection have been bought new, or from dealers in Melbourne where I could see the watch "in person". Anyone have dealings with them? Straight shooters? Reasonably priced? Concerns/reservations if a watch comes with box but no receipts/papers? How much does that devalue the watch? I know Nicholas Hacko from way back. He is a prickly character and had run ins with people in the past . His watches are genuine but overpriced. No papers is not much of a concern , as long as you are satisfied you get the genuine article. You’ll be ok if there is no problem with the transaction or product. Once you have a complaint, I am not totally confident you get a smooth resolution. Best people in Melbourne to deal with are Shonie , Chris La Galle and some others. May I ask what model watch and price? I could possibly give you an alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWY Posted 27July, 2022 Report Share Posted 27July, 2022 4 hours ago, edgy said: I'm not into watches, I hate time, it is the enemy in my eyes... Anyhow, to the OP's point, I do dabble in wine and I can tell you the higher priced bottles generally do not come away with a result in their first showing, had a friend recently list some blue chip and the 2nd time round they lowered reserve by about 15% to get a result. I think this is already trickling back to cars, its just stubborn fisherman leaving their BS high listing prices on their unsold stock on car sales and the like. which auction house if you don't mind sharing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgy Posted 27July, 2022 Report Share Posted 27July, 2022 11 minutes ago, HWY said: which auction house if you don't mind sharing? This ^^ was MW HWY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sov Posted 17August, 2022 Report Share Posted 17August, 2022 On 26/07/2022 at 18:19, sleazius said: I don't get the ultra high end watches other than in a "I earn this every hour so meh" way. Many people don't get Porsche ownership. Same same but different. Arne Krix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason A Posted 17August, 2022 Report Share Posted 17August, 2022 A nice watch, sports cars, art, wine are all indulgences to reward hard work and determination. Different brands and styles reflect your personality and wants. If you like it and can afford it - just do it. None of these things exist in heaven (or whatever your beliefs are) - so enjoy it while you can. Who cares what other people think Arne Krix, P-Kay, JWM and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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