Tyres...

[Minke]

Hi Team,

Pirelli has, until 16th Sept, 20% off their tyres. (17" and up. ) 

My 996 is 225/40R18 and 285/40R18. Both front and rear are around 8 years old with approx 40-50% tread left.  Rubber is hard but not cracked. 

I'd prefer Michelin Pilot Sport 4S -  but fitted the best I've found is 1900.  The Pirelli N4 (Pzero Rosso) including the discount and additional $100 for buying all four comes to $1470

I rang a tyres store who, whe I told him the size I needed he picked it was a 911 and guessed 996 based on the size.   Got to talking to him and he was of the opinion, sight unseen, that I can easily wait and not rush even given they're  8 years old.  He wouldn't blink until they were 10.

When I asked about the age of the new rubber he was very frank saying that the rears are an odd size and he's seen the warehouse deliver 2020 / 2021 regularly and they commonly will hold onto rubber before 'dumping' it and went on that he couldn't 'pick' the year of manufactuer.  He went on to say that Michellin are better at turning over rubber and keeping fresher product but rarely if ever does dumpster fire sales like Pirelli. 

So I sit here thinking.  Do I bite the bullet and just get fresher Pirelli that could be 4 years old or $400 more for the PS4S?  Caveat in all of this is I've just spent / about to spend $8500 on suspension refresh and other bits too... so the money out isn't equalling the enjoyment being had so far.. 

thoughts?

[Peter John]

With all due respect- don’t shop on price, place a higher value on the things that keep you in contact with the road. I don’t touch Pirelli. I replace tyres as soon as I buy a car and I drive the cars enough that I’ll run them down before they get old. My two Bob. As for dates find a shop they sells a lot of tyres and that will have good dates. 

[JWM]

Agree with @Peter John 100% … get rid of those old hard tyres ASAP and go for the fresh PS4S.

If it helps, look at this way - your $8,500 spent on suspension will come alive with good tyres, but until then is wasted (and dangerous). 

[AndrewM]

Quote

My 996 is 225/40R18 and 285/40R18. Both front and rear are around 8 years old with approx 40-50% tread left.  Rubber is hard but not cracked. 

996.2 OEM sizes should be 225/40R18 on the front and 285/30R18 on the rear, assuming you have the standard 18x8J ET50 RIMs on the front, and 18x10J ET65 on the rear.

They don't make PS4S in that size.

Personally, I opted to go with PS2 because they exist in "N" spec. I could have fitted PS4S (non N) for my 996.1 as they run smaller rears. I decided not to go for the PS4S because I had found the ones I'd driven on a friends 997.1 C2S to feel sloppy on turn-in. Now this may not be the fault of the tyre, but after watching the video below discussing the same thing I had noticed, decided not to risk it.

PS: I really which Michelin would use a completely different name for the OEM spec tyres, as they really don't seem related to the other tyres with the same name..
 

 

[Carrera28]

I would not keep 8 year old tyres on a performance car particularly given the demands a well driven 911 would place on them.

Whenever I buy tyres from a dealer I get them to confirm in writing what age the tyres are as I hate idea of buying tyres that are a couple of years old.

I have historically gotten my best deals, price wise, on tyres from Tempe Tyres and St George Tyres.  However neither have exactly a good reputation so I always watched what they did, checked the age of the tyres and brought my own torque wrench to verify that the nuts had been tightened to correct settings.

I have had the Pirellis P Zero Rossos and have had Michelin PS2s.  If pushed I would say that the Michelins are better but I would not say the Pirellis were rubbish either.  I have had Continentals, Pirelli and Michelin.  I definitely found both the Pirelli and Michelins to be superior to the Continentals grip wise.  I would personally pay a premium for the Michelins but if Pirellis were only tyres available I would have no qualms buying them again.

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S seem to be available in 285/30/18 from Jax Tyres, but they are not N spec tyres and I recall reading on Rennlist they had discontinued the N Spec tyres in this size.

There is a discount on Michelins at the moment when you buy 4 tyres.  I just looked at Bob Jane and 4 x Michelin PS2s in 996.2 sizes are $1,415.59 which includes a $150 discount. I have no idea if this includes fitting cost?  If I was buying tyres for my 996 these are the tyres I would buy and price wise they are similar to the Pirellis you got quoted.  Last time I bought tyres from Bob Jane they included some free wheel alignments during life of tyre (I personally have never used them as my car is too low to get onto their wheel alignment machine and my wheels were aligned by PRT at an additional cost).

 

[9er]

Manufactured date of tyres is always part of the sidewall information, a small pad with 3 or 4 numbers eg 4022 showing the week and year.

[Dalai]

Not sure why the Nero Rosso Zeros are getting a bad rap? I have then on my G series (very few options with 245/45/16's) and find them consistent even when pushed. Maybe it's different with more HP with the 996?

I've been using Motorsport Wheels and Tyres in Dandenong and they have been checking the manufacturing dates for me prior to ordering.

 

[Minke]

Hi - I did mis-type the sizes.  225/40R18 and 285/30R18 (and not 285/40R18 - going cross-eyed late at catching up on F1's FP1/FP2 from the night before and posting   )

I've looked at the Pilot Sport PS2 N3 tyres. These were released in 2005.  It is hard to not look at that and think development surely has moved along both from a material (face meeting the road and internal) standpoint as well as construction over all.

Surely moving towards the PS4S isn't going to be the compromise that is suggested?

On 14/09/2024 at 16:42, Peter John said:

With all due respect- don’t shop on price, place a higher value on the things that keep you in contact with the road. I don’t touch Pirelli. I replace tyres as soon as I buy a car and I drive the cars enough that I’ll run them down before they get old. My two Bob. As for dates find a shop they sells a lot of tyres and that will have good dates. 

That's a fair comment, but I'm not shopping on price on widly different levels of rubber. Both are Porsche rated (N3/N4)

The issue with cost is more about spead of spend.

 

 

[Carrera28]

3 hours ago, Minke said:

Hi - I did mis-type the sizes.  225/40R18 and 285/30R18 (and not 285/40R18 - going cross-eyed late at catching up on F1's FP1/FP2 from the night before and posting   )

I've looked at the Pilot Sport PS2 N3 tyres. These were released in 2005.  It is hard to not look at that and think development surely has moved along both from a material (face meeting the road and internal) standpoint as well as construction over all.

Surely moving towards the PS4S isn't going to be the compromise that is suggested?

That's a fair comment, but I'm not shopping on price on widly different levels of rubber. Both are Porsche rated (N3/N4)

The issue with cost is more about spead of spend.

 

 

The PS4S is by all reviews a superior tyre compared to the PS2 both in terms of dry and wet weather grip but also in terms of how long they last and reduced tyre noise.  Unfortunately based on what I have read online, PS4S are no longer made in N spec:

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/1366268-996-c2-18-tire-choices.html

https://www.pff.de/en/thread/2820682-michelin-pilot-sport-4-on-996-carrera/?pageNo=1

https://www.michelin.com.au/auto/browse-tyres/by-dimension/285/30/18/93/Y

So whilst you can get them in 285/30R18, it appears you cannot get them in N spec so that is a conversation between you and your insurance company about whether you choose non N Spec tyres.

N rated tires will normally start as a N0.  As the tyre manufacturer updates that model it will get a higher N number. I.E. N0 then N1 then N2 and so one.

A Pirelli N4 is not necessarily comparable with a Michelin N3 in terms of relative age.  Simply because the Pirelli is an N4 does NOT mean it is a newer version then a Michelin N3. It just means the Michelin is now on the 4th generation of PS2 model tire and Pirelli is on the 5th for the Rosso.

The PS2 released in 2003, was I believe an N0 so that tyre has been updated 4 times so an N3 tyre should not be a 2003 design, however compared to the PS4S it is an older design.  The PS2 is up to N4 in some other sizes but they appear to have ceased development on the 285/30/18 at N3 😒

[TwoHeadsTas]

Only Pirelli I've ever liked have been Scorpion Verdes on the Touareg I had, never liked them on any of the Porsches I've bought and have always replaced them early on.  Had a really good run on PS2s on a 996.2 a few years back, but equally really like the base level Yoko Advans I have on my current 996.1.  Mrs has Yoko V107s on her 981 Boxster (replaced V105s) which I'm very happy to drive on, and would look to using these, or the next level up Advan when I look at replacements. 

Have a look at what you can find in 265/35s too, as the rolling circumference will be very similar, if not the same.  That's what I used in Dunlop Direzza Z3s on my 996.1GT3, and they were a perfect fit.

[AndrewM]

4 hours ago, Carrera28 said:

The PS2 released in 2003, was I believe an N0 so that tyre has been updated 4 times so an N3 tyre should not be a 2003 design, however compared to the PS4S it is an older design.  The PS2 is up to N4 in some other sizes but they appear to have ceased development on the 285/30/18 at N3 😒

After doing a bit of digging, I don't think Michelin did anyone any favours by naming the PS2 Nx the way they did. If you watched the video above, you will see that the PS4S and the PS4S * are different tyres. They are built differently, have different tread patterns, different widths and made in different countries.

Regarding the number after the "N" - this indicates the iteration of a design. So you can definitely not compare N3 on a PS2 to N0 on a PS4S. It is not clear whether you can compare the "N" numbers inside a tyre family.

For example, in 18", the PS2 are N3s, but in 19", the PS2 are N2s. Totally guessing here, but I could imagine that the 18"N3s use the same tech as the 19"N2s, as I imagine the 19" Ns weren't required until the 997 came out, and so the 19" Ns came later.. (All guess work here). I do remember reading somewhere that you shouldn't mix generations of tyres.

 

3 hours ago, TwoHeadsTas said:

Have a look at what you can find in 265/35s too, as the rolling circumference will be very similar, if not the same.  That's what I used in Dunlop Direzza Z3s on my 996.1GT3, and they were a perfect fit.

I think it really depends how much time you have to invest in getting your car setup correctly. After having gone through years of stress getting my suspension setup correctly on my old Lotus Elise, I wanted to keep life simple, and stick to the manufacturer's recommendations.

So on a 996.2, with 18x8, and 18x10 I would run the 225/40 and 285/30s. Of course you can run other sizes, but you might find the ride compromised in extreme situations. Other sizes could definitely be better, but my thinking is that Porsche spent a lot of time getting this dialed in, so unless you want to spend time playing with your geometry, I would leave it.

 

And finally, PS4S (Non N) vs PS2 N3 - Thanks for the correction, last time I looked I missed the 285s for the PS4S - As I said above, a friend of mine has the PS4S on his 997.1C2S. The thing had bucket loads of grip, and hung in corners like you wouldn't believe. HOWEVER, I found turn-in to be pretty horrible. It felt like the car would wallow for a split second on the front before it finally settled and then just powered around the corner. Normally I would have thought it was just his car, but after hearing the same comments from other threads, and the BMW comparison above, I believe it is really related to the tyre difference.

I ended up going for the PS2 N3s  - If you do go for the PS4S (non N) would love to hear your opinion.

 

Cheers!
Andrew

 

Oh, and as you are in Sydney, I can strongly recommend Jax Tyres in Artarmon. The will look after your car. They do a lot of Porsches, including ones with centre wheel locks, so ours are easy

 

[Minke]

2 hours ago, AndrewM said:

After doing a bit of digging, I don't think Michelin did anyone any favours by naming the PS2 Nx the way they did. If you watched the video above, you will see that the PS4S and the PS4S * are different tyres. They are built differently, have different tread patterns, different widths and made in different countries.

Regarding the number after the "N" - this indicates the iteration of a design. So you can definitely not compare N3 on a PS2 to N0 on a PS4S. It is not clear whether you can compare the "N" numbers inside a tyre family.

For example, in 18", the PS2 are N3s, but in 19", the PS2 are N2s. Totally guessing here, but I could imagine that the 18"N3s use the same tech as the 19"N2s, as I imagine the 19" Ns weren't required until the 997 came out, and so the 19" Ns came later.. (All guess work here). I do remember reading somewhere that you shouldn't mix generations of tyres.

 

I think it really depends how much time you have to invest in getting your car setup correctly. After having gone through years of stress getting my suspension setup correctly on my old Lotus Elise, I wanted to keep life simple, and stick to the manufacturer's recommendations.

So on a 996.2, with 18x8, and 18x10 I would run the 225/40 and 285/30s. Of course you can run other sizes, but you might find the ride compromised in extreme situations. Other sizes could definitely be better, but my thinking is that Porsche spent a lot of time getting this dialed in, so unless you want to spend time playing with your geometry, I would leave it.

 

And finally, PS4S (Non N) vs PS2 N3 - Thanks for the correction, last time I looked I missed the 285s for the PS4S - As I said above, a friend of mine has the PS4S on his 997.1C2S. The thing had bucket loads of grip, and hung in corners like you wouldn't believe. HOWEVER, I found turn-in to be pretty horrible. It felt like the car would wallow for a split second on the front before it finally settled and then just powered around the corner. Normally I would have thought it was just his car, but after hearing the same comments from other threads, and the BMW comparison above, I believe it is really related to the tyre difference.

I ended up going for the PS2 N3s  - If you do go for the PS4S (non N) would love to hear your opinion.

 

Cheers!
Andrew

 

Oh, and as you are in Sydney, I can strongly recommend Jax Tyres in Artarmon. The will look after your car. They do a lot of Porsches, including ones with centre wheel locks, so ours are easy

 

RE: Artarmon - They're the store I rang when the person on the telephone kinda picked the size I was after. Started to tell me that Porsche 996  rear tyre size is not common and as such low turn over.   Said he was at Porsche during the 996 run.   

I didn't ask - they do decent wheel alignment? I only ask as I'm planning to use Heasmans Steering otherwise

[AndrewM]

2 minutes ago, Minke said:

RE: Artarmon - They're the store I rang when the person on the telephone kinda picked the size I was after. Started to tell me that Porsche 996  rear tyre size is not common and as such low turn over.   Said he was at Porsche during the 996 run.   

I didn't ask - they do decent wheel alignment? I only ask as I'm planning to use Heasmans Steering otherwise

I did my wheel alignment with Autohaus Hamilton.