VENT!

[Nighthawk]

I hear ya!

Try this one, I do someone’s reno, with my money, invoice them a progress claim, then hope to get paid. 

[sjm]

With potential clients/friends, I get them to find a couple of quotes from other tradies. When they see other quotes around twice the price, they are either happy to go ahead or I give it a miss. Getting too old (and grumpy) as a Tradie/ labourer to give my time and experience for nothing. Rather drive my 997 in the hills with a good coffee. 

[Arne Krix]

10 hours ago, LeeM said:

 A sparky friend recommended me to his very well cashed up client to repair 2 90mm downlight holes in the 3.4m ceiling as a cashy, as some bloke quoted them $800 without painting.

 Got the call, and told him $300 without paint. Now it's something I do most days with wall and ceiling repairs, and I know how long it takes etc, yet this bloke says "That's too expensive. How about $100, as you won't be using much gyprock or flushing materials and it will only take 10 minutes..." 

 Well when you consider I have to drive to buy gyprock then to site, set up dust covers, cut and fit the gyprock, do one flush coat and wait for it to dry (I use powder and an additive to halve the drying time to about 20 minutes). Do a 2nd coat and wait, then a final top coat and clean up, do you think I would do it for $100? Tell your missus it's $500. Click

 I did a cashy coupla weeks ago (same sparky recommedation) to fill a 900 x 700 kitchen servery hole in a besser brick wall. They were quoted $4,800 to fill it. That's four thousand eight hundred dollars! 😳 No rendering or painting included, as one side was to be covered by a splashback, and the other side they wanted the old saloon doors refitted just for looks/nostalgia (its a mid century modern house). I quoted $300 and did the job within 20 minutes, as it didn't need flushing, but I did one coat to seal it all. They were so happy, they gave me $350, and now it sounds like I'm going to do a load more work for them soon with changing skirtings and other small jobs. Have also had calls from their friends.

 I hate people getting ripped off, yet I also hate people expecting those experienced in a particular trade to do a job for next to nothing because they're a tight arse. If you needed a lawyer, accountant or drop your Porsche off to be repaired/services do you haggle with them about their hourly rates? Didn't think so.

 Moral of the story. You're not just paying for a tradies time, you're paying for their experience, so if you're a tight arse, go buy the materials and tools and do it yourself

 

Welcome to my world . I downloaded from Facebook the image of a high quality woodcarving of a horse on top of a corner post of a fancy staircase. Second photo is of a basic white post, with a plastic horse hanging from it. ( You might have seen this on Facebook). When the cheap goats come along , I tell them ,, " let me see what i can do " , whip out my laptop , ( they think i am serious about bartering now ) , show them the image , and ask which type of job they want. Gets a laugh most of the time , some people asked me to leave. The funniest thing for me is when they call me back after 1 or 2 weeks and gracefully want to give me the business , ( if i discount) , and i tell them , I won't be able to do the job , not enough money in it to double handle ,sorry . good luck to you. Anyway , most folks understand , if explained properly.

[LeeM]

9 hours ago, Nighthawk said:

I hear ya!

Try this one, I do someone’s reno, with my money, invoice them a progress claim, then hope to get paid. 

 Yeah, I've done a job in good faith years ago that I had paid for everything with no deposit, and the twat tried haggling afterwards when I was already saving him $1200. Lets just say he paid up pretty quickly when I walked out 😁 THEN he calls me months later wanting more work done? 😅😅 Jog on champ!

31 minutes ago, sjm said:

With potential clients/friends, I get them to find a couple of quotes from other tradies. When they see other quotes around twice the price, they are either happy to go ahead or I give it a miss. Getting too old (and grumpy) as a Tradie/ labourer to give my time and experience for nothing. Rather drive my 997 in the hills with a good coffee. 

 Same here mate. The older I get, the grumpier and less tolerant I've become, yet I've no qualms with that at all. Don't like it? Find someone else 👍 

 I like your style @Arne Krix 😅👍

[tomo]

Never work for friends,  They always turn out to be some prick you don't like

[3legs]

And don't let your friends ride your brand new bike when all they want to do is burnouts, isn't that right @LeeM    

[LeeM]

1 hour ago, 3legs said:

And don't let your friends ride your brand new bike when all they want to do is burnouts, isn't that right @LeeM    

 You have friends that would do that? 😳 Jeebus mate, what an asshole. Time to find some new friends methinks 

[Dalai]

My brother is a plumber and like you Lee does a good job at a fair price. The stories he tells me of people trying all sorts of rubbish...

[Coastr]

Not one to let stupid things like internet ads get the better of me - but now I'm seeing 'one weird trick to save fuel' with pictures of people putting toothpaste or coke into the fuel filler.   I mean...come on - are people really that stupid?  Do they click on those ads going 'oh, that might help'.   Hate to be the mechanic who posts 'just came into the workshop, customer states poured a 2l coke bottle into the tank'

[OZ930]

Probably originated from drug smugglers and got lost in translation.

[LeeM]

 @Coastr They now put labels on batteries to advise millennials not to drink the battery acid, as it may result in injury or death, so I have no question whatsoever that some moron will put Coke in their petrol tank after they've tried to fill their blinker fluid bottle

[3legs]

"Blinker fluid bottle" Never heard that one before.

Would make a great April Fools joke for a 1st year apprentice mechanic    

[LeeM]

 I often wonder what goes through the narrow minds of business owners when they employ contractors.

 If you don't want to pay a reasonable rate, go and get some more employees, pay their super, sick leave and annual holidays and don't employ contractors.

 The mob I have contracted to for nearly 3 years have all of a sudden changed from a ridiculous current hourly rate (my fault there), to 'price per job' with their guesstimates of what timeline a job will take to complete. No discussion, not bartering, nothing...just "Oh yeah, you won't be on an hourly rate anymore, and you'll have to pay for any extra materials required, and we'll reimburse you on completion".

 OK, so I'll be adding a 30% mark up to that, and if any job takes longer than what has been allowed for due to unforeseen circumstances out of my control (very regular with this mob!), my hourly rate is now double what you were paying me. Oh what's that? You won't be supplying a skip on YOUR job site? OK then, I'll be charging a not negotiable $500 dumping fee or it gets left onsite.

 Seriously, why do that to someone who has been loyal, always rolls up to work, works harder than anyone half my age, goes to work when I have a broken wrist strapped up (twice!), goes out of my way to help both the company and clients usually at my expense/time, has the ability and experience to do some tasks that others can't, or won't do, and just gets along with everyone with the goal of getting the job done? 

 Why the f..k would I want to work for someone who I've helped out so many times and they do this? I'll do it for a week or two to keep the money coming in, yet they're the ones who will see at least 4 contractors leave within the next month.

 Rant over 

[sleazius]

Society is somewhat broken since covid. Its like the social contract now doesn't apply to a lot of people. They went every man for themselves during covid, and they haven't switched back. It applies to a chunk of business owners and employees. Its all just "f-you, I got mine".

[Dalai]

I work in IT for a company that was recently sold.  We are to migrate to another platform under development and I will be redundant in 18 months or so.

Management couldn't care less about retaining the current staff with platform knowledge to keep the existing platform running till switched off so are haemorrhagging employees.  Therefore they are getting contractors who get paid a higher hourly rate and are next to useless as they don't know the platform and many haven't even worked in this specific field! With current demand in the field they are only getting the dregs... So we have to spend time holding their hands on top of our existing work.

Only reason some of us old timers are staying is the possibility of a good redundancy at the end. It will be around 75 weeks for me by the end of 2023, so I'm putting up with the sh1tshow!

[LeeM]

 @Dalai I feel for people like yourself who are just basically expendable assets.

 I don't profess to being a good tradie (well, I actually don't have any qualifications, so it's all just learning new tasks onsite), yet the guys I work with always ask for me to be onsite with them, as they know I'll work and do a good job, so that's gotta say something about my abilities and work ethic.

 Last week I only worked 2 days, as one job quote hadn't even been accepted by the client, but they'd already sent the materials to site, the second day there just nothing booked in for me, and Friday I had a friends funeral. On the Thursday I didnt work, they had this young bloke who they've had there for a while from a labour hire company that noone wants onsite, as he's lazy and is always on the phone, yet they're paying $60 an hour and he's still working, but not me at nearly half that rate. The boss said his days are limited, but that doesn't help me does it? 

 Every company I've ever worked for prior when doing wardrobes for 14 years, have dictated to me what they'll pay for an installation, and they'll rip us off at any opportunity, which is exactly why I'm not doing that now as aid had enough. I thought being a contractor was that I determine what you pay me, and you can decide if you want me there, not the other way around! 

 I'm 56 and physically knackered, so I know my time is coming when I won't be able to do most of the work I do now, yet in the meantime I don't have a choice but to work. What I do hope for is a little more respect from any company I contract to, as right now I have lost all respect for the owner of the current company with the way they've treated both me, and the other contractors who bust our arse every day. They can't afford to lose us, yet we are all of the same opinion and we're all looking elsewhere, so they'll be in trouble when their jobs start backing up.

 Fortunately, I recently worked at the home of the CEO of the company which is one of the very big contracts we have, and he was glowing in his report back to the boss with my work (he told me via text and gave me a bunch of beers, but I heard nothing from our boss), so he will be one of the first people I speak to when looking for a new job. 

[ArthurK]

4 hours ago, Dalai said:

I work in IT for a company that was recently sold.  We are to migrate to another platform under development and I will be redundant in 18 months or so.

Management couldn't care less about retaining the current staff with platform knowledge to keep the existing platform running till switched off so are haemorrhagging employees.  Therefore they are getting contractors who get paid a higher hourly rate and are next to useless as they don't know the platform and many haven't even worked in this specific field! With current demand in the field they are only getting the dregs... So we have to spend time holding their hands on top of our existing work.

Only reason some of us old timers are staying is the possibility of a good redundancy at the end. It will be around 75 weeks for me by the end of 2023, so I'm putting up with the sh1tshow!

Not a great situation to be in that's for sure. I have heard a number of horror stories from vendors who have been taken over and their treatment. One consultant was praised for their work and dedication on a Monday and fired on the Friday. 3 months later the company needed their skills and brought them back for 3 months and unceremoniously dumped them again without warning 2 months later.

Look on the bright side, if you end up with 75 weeks in redundancy it is then potentially worth the heartache and pain. Thats a bloody good redundancy, I havent seen that happen, even in Government work. The only ones that ran 70 or 75 weeks were the autos and only because Toyota lead the way. Most are capped at 52 weeks. 

5 hours ago, LeeM said:

 I often wonder what goes through the narrow minds of business owners when they employ contractors.

 If you don't want to pay a reasonable rate, go and get some more employees, pay their super, sick leave and annual holidays and don't employ contractors.

 The mob I have contracted to for nearly 3 years have all of a sudden changed from a ridiculous current hourly rate (my fault there), to 'price per job' with their guesstimates of what timeline a job will take to complete. No discussion, not bartering, nothing...just "Oh yeah, you won't be on an hourly rate anymore, and you'll have to pay for any extra materials required, and we'll reimburse you on completion".

 OK, so I'll be adding a 30% mark up to that, and if any job takes longer than what has been allowed for due to unforeseen circumstances out of my control (very regular with this mob!), my hourly rate is now double what you were paying me. Oh what's that? You won't be supplying a skip on YOUR job site? OK then, I'll be charging a not negotiable $500 dumping fee or it gets left onsite.

 Seriously, why do that to someone who has been loyal, always rolls up to work, works harder than anyone half my age, goes to work when I have a broken wrist strapped up (twice!), goes out of my way to help both the company and clients usually at my expense/time, has the ability and experience to do some tasks that others can't, or won't do, and just gets along with everyone with the goal of getting the job done? 

 Why the f..k would I want to work for someone who I've helped out so many times and they do this? I'll do it for a week or two to keep the money coming in, yet they're the ones who will see at least 4 contractors leave within the next month.

 Rant over 

Without knowing your employment situation Lee, it sounds to me someone has taken your employer to Fair Work for unpaid entitlements like super etc. They are turning the tables to prove you are a "true" contractor versus an employee. 

So on the surface it might be the company screwing you over, but it could be someone has screwed them over too. Not defending them just a bit more insight. I dont employ contractors as a norm but I have 2 or 3 that fall under that category and you really need to make sure you pay them correctly. What correctly means is interpreted differently by different people.

[Yeatesy]

It’s no secret that due to the current supply chain issues everyone involved in sales within the car industry is making more money and my boss had mentioned several times that the businesses profit had more than doubled which meant that he could likely retire 5 years earlier. 

So I was blown away when he decided that I was earning too much money and slashed my commission and capped my yearly earnings, I tried to fight it but in the end I realised that he would have just made me redundant so I had no choice but to accept it. 

I’ve been in the car industry for 25 years and I’ve never had a capped earning capacity so I’ve always worked with the believe that the harder I worked the more money the company would make and therefore the more I would earn.

I’m the General Manager and I’ve always been the most dedicated and hardest worker in the dealership but I’ve now lost respect for my boss. For the first time in my life I’m walking out the door right on closing time, have stopped doing any work away whilst from the office and have started applying for positions elsewhere even outside of the car industry. 

 

[ArthurK]

2 minutes ago, Yeatesy said:

It’s no secret that due to the current supply chain issues everyone involved in sales within the car industry is making more money and my boss had mentioned several times that the businesses profit had more than doubled and that he could now retire 5 years earlier. 

So I was blown away when he decided that I was earning too much money and he slashed my commission and capped my yearly earnings, I tried to fight it but in the end I realised that he would have just made me redundant so I had no choice but to accept it. 

I’ve been in the car industry for 25 years and I’ve never had a capped earning capacity so I’ve always worked with the believe that the harder I worked the more money the company would make and therefore the more I would earn.

I’m the General Manager and I’ve always been the most dedicated and hardest worker in the dealership but I’ve now lost respect for my boss and have started applying for positions elsewhere even outside of the car industry. 

 

That's the fastest way to turn a profitable business into one chasing its tale making losses. What a narrow minded view by the owner! If a sales guy is earning big $$$ it means the company is earning big $$$$ so he is cutting his goose off at the neck. 

[LeeM]

 @ArthurK I don't know of any contractors who have lodged any complaints, and I know all of them, yet if the company don't play ball with at least one contractor, there could be the proverbial stuff hitting the fan very soon! 

 I am aware of the policies when you only contract to one company (as I do trading as a family trust), and it has been discussed a while ago, yet nothing has come of it. I mostly know my rights as a contractor, yet I also think as you have mentioned that they're locking themselves up, crossing their T's and dotting their I's to prevent them from any future tax department problems.

 That's fair enough in my eyes, yet its the personal side of me working there and the lack of respect for what I've done for the company which has my back up. I'd asked for $10 more per hour weeks ago, yet now I know why I didn't get an answer.

  

[Yeatesy]

7 minutes ago, ArthurK said:

That's the fastest way to turn a profitable business into one chasing its tale making losses. What a narrow minded view by the owner! If a sales guy is earning big $$$ it means the company is earning big $$$$ so he is cutting his goose off at the neck. 

Exactly but he won’t realise this until I’m gone.

[LeeM]

 Edit: As per your reply to @Yeatesy that's basically what's going to happen to the company I work for. (Sorry to hear @Yeatesy) 

 We've had 25 tradies leave within 2 years, as they saw the writing on the wall, and we're the ones who have had to take up the slack when they've not hired more trades. They'll lose more very soon, so then...maybe then they'll realise how stupid they've been

[ArthurK]

@LeeM in the current climate it is truly bizarre for your employer to be narrow minded re cost increases. I suspect the $10 wouldnt be covering the true costs to begin with. 

On your "contracting" front, as long as they are paying you super then they are most likely doing the right thing by the ATO. This means THEM paying it into your designated super fund. 

 

[LeeM]

 They don't pay anything extra than what I invoice them @ArthurK

 I was told they don't have to if I trade under a family trust, Pty Ltd or a partnership, which is basically a requirement these days. Hardly any company will employ a sole trader for that very reason. 

 They book me out at $100 per hour which is more than double what my hourly rate is. I've just typed out MY new rates which I'll present to them after we've discussed their offer during the week. If I don't like their offer, they can accept or decline my rates. Their choice if they want to keep me or not, though I'd say I already know the answer to that

[Dalai]

40 minutes ago, ArthurK said:

Look on the bright side, if you end up with 75 weeks in redundancy it is then potentially worth the heartache and pain. Thats a bloody good redundancy

That's the way I'm seeing it. Probably would be treated the same elsewhere anyway and my project team colleagues are good people so at least most day to day interactions are good. 

It's capped at 79 weeks for me according to my contract. That plus my 28 weeks long service leave I've always kept as my find another job fund I plan on persevering.