Pauly Posted 29December, 2014 Report Share Posted 29December, 2014 I just wanted to bring this up as it's not on the rules page. I know we're allowed to take photos and post on the forum.. But what about if we bring a photographer friend/family member who you'd call a pro? Would there be rules concerning this? Would they be allowed to upload on their blog/webpage? If so would there be rules prior to upload I.E blur plates. If they write something about it? would that be allowed? We all know what happens on a SMT. would you just call it "a drive to breakfast" Can they share a few photos on facebook/blog/website but not a blog post? OR they can only post on the SMT thread and that's it? Thanks. Pauly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 29December, 2014 Report Share Posted 29December, 2014 Pauly, personally I don't have a problem with you bringing along a "pro". It is not as though we are trying to hide anything on our SMT's As long as it isn't going to disrupt the SMT or get people to do things that are outside our guidelines/regulations for SMT's. it is a free world (well it is it at the moment), and we are a public forum. Passengers definitely allowed on SMT's and if that passenger can take good shots (any shots) all the better. We have no control as to where the "pro" posts those photos, they (the photos) are his property be it Facebook etc. But I would think any photo of anyone else, (apart from yourself) that he is intending to put out there on other forums/post/blogs etc would need to be approved by the owner of that car. The plates blurred would also have to be an option offered Photos of speedos etc would not be appreciated, not that we would be stretching any speed limits. We know the Forum SMT regulations there. As long as the photos do not bring our forum into disrepute, and the participating subjects of the photos are ok with them being "put out there" as I said...... I have no problem with it. I may be completely out of line with my thoughts on this issue (not unusual for me) If any other moderators or any other member would like to chime in on this please feel free, certainly worth discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 30December, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 30December, 2014 I thought i subscribed to this.. Didn't realise it was you Niko, was looking for recycle bin lid yellow boxster in the avatar! If i do take a photographer with me I'll just outline the rules i.e: Blur plates unless owner of vehicle would like an image ect.. No photos which indicate speed No photos which indicate miss behaviour Approval to use their vehicle on blog/website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 30December, 2014 Report Share Posted 30December, 2014 Just having a bit of fun with my new "short timer" avatar, The warp speed yellow coxster will be back soon. I think re the "pro" photographer, That what your saying ticks the boxes. Mainly comes down to a common courtesy to owners of the cars and common sense on what is photographed. I'm sure you will be on top of it. No one else has chipped in so I'm assuming that we have covered the main issues. Regards, Niko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAFE Posted 31December, 2014 Report Share Posted 31December, 2014 would like copies of any pictures that include my car as a photographer i'm a great driver... and as most of you know i'm a crap driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerry Posted 31December, 2014 Report Share Posted 31December, 2014 Pauly, Pauly, Pauly.... Firstly, kudos and thanks for bringing this up beforehand as a topic of discussion. The more I consider it as a question, the more complicated it gets, but here are my thoughts... I've just spent the last 50 minutes debating this topic with AnneMaree, fleshing out the pro's and con's of a professional photographer being invited (sanctioned) to an SMT, and then the possible or improbable potentials of those images being made public, either for individual or commercial advantage. As you may or may not know, I've worked as a professional photographer for over 25 years, and AnneMaree has her own marketing and advertising agency. We both have a fair amount of experience in public relations, and the majority of our present business is located in the digital online arena. The only reason I point this out is for better or worse, to offer context to my comments. Possibly surprisingly, I naturaly fall onto to side who bemoans the nanny state, and the endless, pathetic rules and regulations that we find ourselves now subservient to in order to live, or perhaps to have just a wee bit of fun! By contrast, AnneMaree traditionally plays my devil's advocate in many manners PFA, and is firmly from the department of: "yeah but, what if?". And so, some points to consider to start with... Firstly, lets note the difference between a professional photographer, and any one of the many passengers that come with us on SMTs and who often take copious amounts of photos (and hopefully not videos as per our PFA rules). Any person attending a PFA event is free (by laws both State and Federal) to photograph what they see in the public domain. As we all know today's (domestic) photographic image can have a many and varied life, and that this can mean, depending on its social currency, an extensive reach locally and internationally. A professional photographer by contrast is someone who makes money by selling images (directly or by self promotion) to a client (private or commercial). The obvious difference between the two is marked by the implied transaction of money, and the responsibilities and restrictions that this profession is held to account over. By way of example, any member of the public can take a photo of the Sydney Opera house for private use, but a professional photographer must apply for a permit and pay a fee. Secondly, to the question of who might this actually affect? Obviously it favours the professional photographer by way of providing free subject material for either a portfolio or as saleable items to clients which might include online image libraries, digital or print magazines or news services, private sales to car owners, as well as the self promotion via the photographer's own website, Facebook/Instagram/Flickr/blog etc etc accounts. However of primary interest to me is the interests of the members of the PFA, those whose cars might be photographed, and by greater implication who would be seated and driving within. Now I think its a pretty safe assumption to make that the vast majority of our members are happy to be photographed driving their pride and joy around country roads, and potentially being identified publicly as doing so... personally I no problem with this at all. I would however suggest that there are members who wouldn't necessarily be all that happy with it being public knowledge that they are driving a 6 figure luxury sports car. I know from personal experience one of the dumbest things I ever did was turning up to a clients business premises driving my new 7 series! DUMB! How many of you drive work cars, and weekend cars? Am I making too much of this? Maybe, but as your benevolent dictator my role is to consider the overall effect of what amounts to here as Pauly's request for an official sanction. As with many of the rules and regulations that governments, councils, educational institutions, sporting clubs etc etc now administer in order to keep us safe and offer equal opportunities to all, the exceptions to the rules are often in deference to the minority in the equation, not the majority. And so, when arguing why the "pro" should be allowed to come along on our SMT I proposed that a caveat be placed upon the photographer to restrict the shots he took to those of only members who want to have their cars photographed, and the subsequent images to be used only for self promotion, and not for sales. Sounds good? Well any of you out there with a wafer of cynicism might smile wryly and ask a/ who is going to observe/police this behaviour, and b/ once the photo is taken, who of us realistically have ANY control over its use anyway! (not to mention what legal rights we might have in the first place to restrict the actions of a member of the public from exercising his or her own prerogatives!?!?!) "What are we all getting so worried about anyway?!?! Whats the worst that could happen?!?!?" I'll use myself as an example: On a recent SMT I had an incident, luckily not an accident. Without going into all the details it involved well heated track rubber meeting large quantities of sand that had been spilt from road works trucks as they transported it over a 3km stretch of road. When I got back into my car after ascending the summit and stretching my legs, I found that my track tyres had the effective gripping power equal to ball bearings on ice! Unfortunately I wasn't truly aware of this until I reached the first corner, and although travelling slowly whilst waiting for friends to catch up, my car began a slow and graceful pirouette concluding with me facing the opposite direction, on the wrong side of the road, and semi balancing on a gutter/ledge with a shear drop out the passenger's door. I hadn't done anything wrong - I was probably doing less than 20kph and mechanically my car wasn't really at fault either, but it surely would have made an excellent photographic subject to be sold to any number of news outlets looking to point a bony finger at Fatcats Losing Control of their Middle Aged Penis Extensions! Potentially I would have unjustly had my character called into question and slighted, and the shadow of a "mountaintop accident" hung over my poor car's reputation and provenance, not to mention questions from an insurance company! Now I am in no way suggesting that Pauly's friend is someone who would do anything other than honourably behave in such a situation and put his camera away, but as I don't know him from Adam, and as I am effectively being asked to consider a formal position, I have to consider the bigger picture rather than just my own nanny state hating views. If it was a professional photographer known to me, for example Ian Nichols whose auto-photographic exploits were well know throughout the Porsche Club of Victoria, and is not only well known to me, but also a trusted member of this forum I suspect I wouldn't even be considering these questions, however as Pauly asks me to consider what the formal position of the PFA might be toward sanctioning a professional photographer being involved in our SMTs, here we find ourselves today... I'm genuinely interested to hear how our members would feel about this topic, in particular, if not specifically, by those who participate in our SMTs. Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerry Posted 31December, 2014 Report Share Posted 31December, 2014 No one else has chipped in so I'm assuming that we have covered the main issues. Bah-ha-ha-ha!!! Did you seriously think I wasn't scribing away?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 31December, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 31December, 2014 Nice write up kerry! Only issue if i where to PM. Who do i PM, how many of you. i know kerry and niko are photographers. I know others are photographers here, can they put their input in ect.. So to speak, we could use this "pro" as an "everyday" photographer just to come out and snap some photos and share only with the PFA. just like any of us where talking photos. I know an SMT is a lot different than a motokhana or a track event where papers are signed ect. We can just strictly say "no pros" and keep it to the forum only for an SMT. probably make it easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerry Posted 31December, 2014 Report Share Posted 31December, 2014 Yeah sorry about the tome Pauly, once I get caught up in the words... its a bloody essay! Who to PM? Any of the moderators you wish to take it up with, and it is up to us to seek a collective discussion and opinion. Your suggestions are positive, the moderators are currently having a natter about this and will get back to you on this thread. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 31December, 2014 Author Report Share Posted 31December, 2014 Sound good Kerry. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tit Posted 31December, 2014 Report Share Posted 31December, 2014 I'd be interested in the outcome of this as I'm starting to plan the Tassie trip. Would like to provide some PFA guidelines as part of participant preparation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew F Posted 31December, 2014 Report Share Posted 31December, 2014 I'm personally not fussed in the least if someone photographs or videos my car. But if they intend to use it for commercial gain I at least want the right to say yay or nay or give me $100. If going public I think it's good practice to block out rego numbers. My $0.02 worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerry Posted 1January, 2015 Report Share Posted 1January, 2015 Hey Pauly, After consulting the majority of the moderators an unanimous decision was reached. We believe it is in the best interests of the members to keep the SMT events professional photographer free events. This is not to say that we might not invite such a service in the future, but it will be done so at the behest and discretion of the PFA. Thanks again for taking the time to ask the question. Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 1January, 2015 Report Share Posted 1January, 2015 I sincerely apologise there Pauly, I have led you up the garden path there with my thoughts I posted on your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonk Posted 1January, 2015 Report Share Posted 1January, 2015 What a shame. Here was an opportunity for everyone to get professional photos taken of their cars, I assume for free or at worst allowing the guy to make enough money out of them to buy a 30c cone from Maccas. On the other hand, the committee may wish to consider how appropriate any type of photography is, be it amateur or professional, given the reasons above. All photos posted on PFA are stored on sites like Flickr and Photobucket and are therefore in the public domain. They are freely available for download by anyone and often searchable through Google Images . Yahoo has the right to use my photos for its own use without paying me any type of royalty. I have people following me on Flickr because of the photos I take on SMTs and I have no idea who they are or if they are using my photos for their own use. I know one follower has shared some of my photos so who knows where else they are posted. I have never received a request to remove a photo or blur a number plate but I can only assume there are members that aren’t comfortable with me taking photos of their car. I’m therefore inclined to leave my camera at home on Sunday for fear of upsetting someone which would be a shame as I get numerous requests for high res copies of photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted 2January, 2015 Report Share Posted 2January, 2015 My thoughts as well Simon, l am really not fussed either way about photos taken of my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 2January, 2015 Report Share Posted 2January, 2015 I say let him come along , but only take pics by permission of owner. Announce at the start. Worst comes to worst Pauly , he can post numerous pictures of your mighty Iron Horse on his webpages. Or , can be an amateur photographer for the day like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevMcRev Posted 2January, 2015 Report Share Posted 2January, 2015 I would have had no problem with pics being taken during an SMT. Whether it's a skilfull photographer with quality equipment who knows what he's doing...or one of us with an iphone with a cracked lens and unsteady hand. You never know...we might just get to see some fantastic images of our own pride & joys! We could have a quick yes/no at the start, should anyone personally object to their own car being shot. And could even make it a condition someone moderate the pics at the end..as in if there is anything objectionable captured, it's deleted. That aside, I appreciate & respect Kerrys detailed and thought through response.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 2January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 2January, 2015 I sincerely apologise there Pauly, I have led you up the garden path there with my thoughts I posted on your question. All good Niko. I personally thought your post was valid. but hey some may not agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted 2January, 2015 Report Share Posted 2January, 2015 All good Niko. I personally thought your post was valid. but hey some may not agree. Thanks Pauly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazzieman Posted 2January, 2015 Report Share Posted 2January, 2015 Thanks Pauly. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevMcRev Posted 2January, 2015 Report Share Posted 2January, 2015 Hey Pauly...what if your mate just joined the forum... what would be the difference then between him and anyone else taking a photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 2January, 2015 Report Share Posted 2January, 2015 Hey Pauly...what if your mate just joined the forum... what would be the difference then between him and anyone else taking a photo? Does he own a Porsche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Posted 2January, 2015 Author Report Share Posted 2January, 2015 Hey Pauly...what if your mate just joined the forum... what would be the difference then between him and anyone else taking a photo? He is a member I told him to read all the rules and regulations, and the SMT rules. As far as i'm concerned, after a long chat.. He is allowed to come with his camera and take photos. But not strictly not allowed to post photos on any blog, website ect except the PFA SMT thread. He'll water mark his images as he usually does. As far as the rules go a "pro" is someone who is going to post their photos on a website or to the public, use the photos as any form of income so to speak. And not to cause any worries.. I'll get him to blur any regos and faces and if you PM him he'll have no issue to remove the blurs or remove the photo from the forum. Does he own a Porsche? Unfortunately, no. He is 16 though... a little young. his first car might be an e39. Maybe he might get hooked Same guy who took my avatar and my signature photos!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barks Posted 12January, 2015 Report Share Posted 12January, 2015 I'm not fussed either, I went on the November SMT and some great professional quality photo's were taken and posted on this very site. I'm always happy to "show-off" my P Car and will discuss it at length with anyone who shows an interest. For what its worth I say let 'em come along..as long as everyone involved is made aware as a courtesy and given the right of veto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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