Coastr Posted 20January, 2018 Report Share Posted 20January, 2018 Yes, when the desirability of the car overrides minor concerns. Rarity drives that more than anything. Nobody cares about where a 356 speedster was first delivered. There is no Oz delivered premium as a sizeable premium. Roll back to a 997 and people will pay much more for a local delivery. Personally I think there is (and reasonably so) a premium on provenance and history and some people use oz del as a proxy for same, but on oz car with no history is not more desirable to me than an import with history. The curious thing is that when it comes to cars which were never sold New in oz. there is little differentiation in which country they came from. When in reality that should drive prices more than just private v dealer import. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slipangle Posted 20January, 2018 Report Share Posted 20January, 2018 Skids, thank you for sharing your musings...I often think about this as an interesting subject that appears to have no rational answer other than the marketplace being "what it is". My objective thoughts are that Australian delivery "should" be irrelevant to price if condition and provenance are equal. I suppose the Australian marketplace in placing a significant premium on the ADR plate does not make any logical sense - other than the perception of "increased provenance" (if that is even a word?!). At the end of the day, that is a characteristic of the Porsche marketplace, which as far as I recall has always been the case. Would be interesting to see in decades to come as the older cars become rarer whether the gulf in pricing still exists. As you had eluded to, price being influenced by perception amongst other factors. All I know is that if I had a car to sell that was Australian delivered, I'd place a premium on it, and if I was buying a non-Aus car, then that premium won't apply...so basically contributing to the problem! hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 20January, 2018 Report Share Posted 20January, 2018 It really would make for an interesting area of study for a economics student. Afaik it doesn't apply anywhere near as much with other brands (maybe Benz and Ferrari?), and then in some cases, imports are worth more (lots of JDM cars for example) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavn Posted 20January, 2018 Report Share Posted 20January, 2018 Having now owned & driven a lhd I'd be unlikely to buy an Aus delivered car again if there was an equivalent imported one on the marked at a discount. The driving enjoyment is equivalent (or perhaps better if you prefer pedals that are not so offset). I acknowledge that most people feel otherwise, as seen in market pricing. I also prefer targas to coupes for road driving & think SC's are better than 3.2's so what do I know..... To address Skid's question, I'd suggest that it the 'imported' effect stops becoming as much of an issue for truly rare and stunning examples...but thats just my opinion...having never had one of those tk111 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert L Posted 21January, 2018 Report Share Posted 21January, 2018 I feel the main reason the locally delivered cars are able to obtain a higher price than imports is because of the good marketing skills of the car dealers and how it has now transferred to the private second hand market . I saw many local Aussie delivered Porsche 911sc cars before I settled on my UK car ...many of these cars showed sun damaged interiors,worn seats and carpets ,damaged paint work, cracking rubber seals and just general wear and tear associated with a car of its vintage and lack of maintenance.Also the mileage was always around the 200k Mark. These well worn cars were always priced higher than my superior condition UK sc and the mileage was in many cases more than three times mine. I saw many Porsche 911s at the hangar meet and noticed a huge difference in quality, wear and tear and mileage. I thought to myself will this poor condition sc really be worth more than my UK car?..possibly if the buyer is hung up on this Aussie delivered aspect over quality and value. The Porsche 959 on car sales is for sale for $2,500,000 and was originally sold in Spain and imported to Australia in the late 2000s..Is this car worth less because it's not Aussie delivered ? I think the problem is as our past illustrious leader once said " Australia is at the arse end of the world" and we are such a small closed market place giving the retailers free reign to say and ask the prices that want ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamr Posted 21January, 2018 Report Share Posted 21January, 2018 33 minutes ago, Robert L said: The Porsche 959 on car sales is for sale for $2,500,000 and was originally sold in Spain and imported to Australia in the late 2000s..Is this car worth less because it's not Aussie delivered ? From what i understand, that car is 50% overpriced regardless of where it came from .... As a previous poster suggested, with the rare / limited cars, origin tends to go out the window ... but if it was priced correctly, I reckon that a locally delivered one (don't know if there were any) would still command a premium .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 21January, 2018 Report Share Posted 21January, 2018 36 minutes ago, Dreamr said: From what i understand, that car is 50% overpriced regardless of where it came from .... As a previous poster suggested, with the rare / limited cars, origin tends to go out the window ... but if it was priced correctly, I reckon that a locally delivered one (don't know if there were any) would still command a premium .. No such thing as a locally delivered 959. AFAIK no RHd ones made? Goes to show that origin doesn’t mean anything when the car is desirable enough. Dreamr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted 21January, 2018 Report Share Posted 21January, 2018 Ah haha this old discussion. Entertaining. Aus delivered cars were hacked by bogans from day 1 of delivery.. "yeah mate get me the drill would ya, gotta slap this compliance plate on." GUT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 21January, 2018 Report Share Posted 21January, 2018 "Yeah, also need to rip a hole in the mudguard for the aerial too." GUT and Al 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 22January, 2018 Report Share Posted 22January, 2018 On 1/21/2018 at 7:38 AM, Gavin (CliffToCoast) said: Having now owned & driven a lhd I'd be unlikely to buy an Aus delivered car again if there was an equivalent imported one on the marked at a discount. The driving enjoyment is equivalent (or perhaps better if you prefer pedals that are not so offset). I acknowledge that most people feel otherwise, as seen in market pricing. I also prefer targas to coupes for road driving & think SC's are better than 3.2's so what do I know..... Yep, totally agree with this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rminc Posted 22January, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 22January, 2018 Hi all, Just looking through carsales and wanting to get an idea of what you think a few cars are actually worth? The black one looks decent and has been online for 2 months or so, whereas I think the blue one has been sitting online for maybe 1.5 years? What do you think is a good price for both cars? https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1988/SSE-AD-5139381 https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Porsche-911-Carrera-1984/SSE-AD-4242397 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 22January, 2018 Report Share Posted 22January, 2018 Blue resprayed Blue int I'm not a fan but rebuilt gearbox. Colour combo on black with oxblood int could really work in person has exhaust as well not original, but everyone wants a great sound - '88 model more sought after? or less?. I vote the black, go in hard and the price will be ok -- the black will show more general paint damage so look at both and if the paintwork's comparable the black has probably been looked after well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rminc Posted 23January, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 23January, 2018 @Troubleshooter The repainted panels doesn't concern me the slightest if the reason was for cosmetic purposes and not accident repairs. Should it concern me? I think he means it has been repainted in the same colour in some areas, which I thought would pretty much be the norm for all 80's 911. I doubt there would be many cars with 200,000-300,000 kms that have original paint and if they do, I don't think it would be the best. Stone chips, parking dents etc... 30 years of that and few panels lead alone the whole car could do with new paint. That being said. The blue one has been sitting online for over a year! Black one only a few months. I'm guessing the blue one is overpriced significantly otherwise it would have sold. Any idea on a fair price for both cars based on information provided? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 23January, 2018 Report Share Posted 23January, 2018 1 hour ago, rminc said: @Troubleshooter The repainted panels doesn't concern me the slightest if the reason was for cosmetic purposes and not accident repairs. Should it concern me? I think he means it has been repainted in the same colour in some areas, which I thought would pretty much be the norm for all 80's 911. I doubt there would be many cars with 200,000-300,000 kms that have original paint and if they do, I don't think it would be the best. Stone chips, parking dents etc... 30 years of that and few panels lead alone the whole car could do with new paint. That being said. The blue one has been sitting online for over a year! Black one only a few months. I'm guessing the blue one is overpriced significantly otherwise it would have sold. Any idea on a fair price for both cars based on information provided? You have to look right into what sellers say or what they don't say in adverts - and then in person when you grill them - the devil's always in the detail... "" Car has been resprayed to remove stone chips with correct slate blue original colour."" was it resprayed a different colour for years, prior to respraying the original colour??? and then not a bare metal job, so under the blue is some red or yellow?? whatever, it all counts into factoring the price to pay . ""I doubt there would be many cars with 200,000-300,000 kms that have original paint and if they do, I don't think it would be the best."" I mostly disagree, there's plenty of collector cars that have original great or fantastic paint . The blue one has done 180ks and is mid a 80's - eg. plenty of 930's with great original paint. Whilst a 30 year collector car having a respray (and that's how I read it, not just a spray here n there - which is probably worse unless an expert does it) is sometimes good, remember you pay for originality in these (unless it's rodded) and the paint's only original once and is a main component of the cars's originality, provenance and quality. A lot can be hidden with a paint job that comes out a few years later so if it was sprayed 10 years back it'll be divulging any secrets if there's any there I would think - I'm no expert. With original paint you can see what you are getting, and a bit of the "correct" patina is ok these days - also if it's a great respray and perfect and nothing else on the car is redone, it'll mostly make every other component of the car look tired and worse than they actually are (if you get my drift) and then you are almost compelled to refresh the rubbers, int, engine and the small stuff = huge $$$$ - and that's fine if you want to go that way. I must admit I'm a bit of a stickler for originality in öriginal type of cars but on the other hand if it's been sprayed, I want the mechanicals fully rebuilt and interior new etc etc and on the third hand if it's outlawed I want it full on outlawed. Prices?, well rough ball park on what I can read is black one $100 and blue one $90 - Maybe being 84 first year 3.2, or 88 last year G series and ""better"" gearbox? 89 last year? are worth more, others know more than me and someone will chime in with the finer details...... others will disagree with this, but I won't ever pay over what I think it's worth, I'll wait for a bargain, I don't just have to have the car, I've had heaps of them, I'll wait - what you pay depends a lot on if you just have to have one soon or can't wait long -- GLWSearch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 23January, 2018 Report Share Posted 23January, 2018 I have looked at quite a few cars where sellers have claimed original paint; sadly, not one of them was the original paint. If a car has original paint and is in good condition, then yes, I believe you will and should, pay a premium for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rminc Posted 23January, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 23January, 2018 Thanks @Troubleshooter. Very good info. I would have thought around the $100k mark for the blue. $90k would be pretty good, but in this market it's pretty doubtful. Seller must not be interested in selling with the current price tag. I am in no rush which is a good thing I guess? Not if prices keep rising though.. I think they peaked a while ago from what everyone was saying and now they've dropped a bit and stabilised, but who knows. I'll keep an eye out. I don't want to go over $100k, see what comes up. @Mike D'Silva 100% correct. If I were to guess, I'd say that less than 5% of 911s with over 150,000kms have completely original paint. Stone chips, dents are pretty unavoidable. The previous owner of my R34 GTR was convinced the paint was original. It was stated in the add and he said it several times over the phone. Once I got it checked turned out almost half the car had been painted. Panel shop told me there was nothing sinister, but I did manage to knock $5k off the price because of it, so can't complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 23January, 2018 Report Share Posted 23January, 2018 Even though I wouldn't pay more than 90 for the blue one on what info is provided, in saying that , over a year I've hardly seen an original Carrera man coupe of that era advertised at under 100. Patience is a virtue, (although you can miss out on a quantity of good driving time waiting) there''s always another one out there that'll come up sooner or later. One thing I do know for certain is, that if one peaks your interest and sounds the goods over the phone and all looks right for you in the ad, you have to go look to ascertain if it's the one for you. No two ways about it. And if it's indicating a good price, you have to go quick to land it - (coz there's 20 of us vultures on here and another 50 lurkers out there watching and waiting to pounce hahahhahah) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastr Posted 23January, 2018 Report Share Posted 23January, 2018 Very few cars have original paint, especially in the areas of front rear corners, rear bar and frontal area. Original paint cars do exist, but have usually been babied beyond belief - no shopping centres, car parks, commuting or long trips. Point A to Point A Sunday driver cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 23January, 2018 Report Share Posted 23January, 2018 Sorry I'll further clarify, by original paint I mean 90% of the car is original (not patched here n there or total respray) - seems plenty of the 10 to 20yo cars have front and back bumpers redone - sometimes bonnet as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D'Silva Posted 23January, 2018 Report Share Posted 23January, 2018 1 hour ago, Troubleshooter said: Sorry I'll further clarify, by original paint I mean 90% of the car is original (not patched here n there or total respray) - seems plenty the 10 to 20yo cars have front and back bumpers redone - sometimes bonnet as well well, that's not original paint then is it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troubleshooter Posted 24January, 2018 Report Share Posted 24January, 2018 At the very least 90% of it is - but technically not - but I'm generalising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rminc Posted 29January, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 29January, 2018 Hi guys, When it rains it pours. I've got a few cars to look at this week which is a nice change. One that I need a bit of help with is an 84' model with approx 170,000kms that has been with the same owner for 80,000 of those kms (since 2002). I'd be wanting to get a PPI done on this one if I like it when I see it in person. It has a rebuilt gear box, but the top end rebuild probably won't be that far away with those kms judging from what I've been reading and the advice from others. Can anyone recommend a decent place to do PPI near Patterson Lakes? Owner is an older gentleman and doesn't drive the car much. I don't think he is too keen on venturing too far out for the PPI. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepo Posted 29January, 2018 Report Share Posted 29January, 2018 Cairns in Hallam aren’t too far away . I wouldn’t consider 170000 k’s excessive for an 84 model. Top end may still be fine for some time yet if it’s been looked after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rminc Posted 29January, 2018 Author Report Share Posted 29January, 2018 Thanks @Stepo. I'll take a look at the car first and if it's any good I'll get in touch with them. What is considered top end rebuild territory for the 3.2's? Hearing and reading conflicting information. Have heard around 150,000-200,000. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter M Posted 29January, 2018 Report Share Posted 29January, 2018 Depends if you are buying or selling! Buyers always say about 150,000km Sellers say its only a concern when over 250,000km. The reality is probably somewhere in the middle The key determiner is how much oil it's consuming. Porsche say anything greater than 1.5 litre per 1,000km needs investigation. However I think most engines get pulled much earlier for a "reseal" to fix oil leaks and while it's out, recondition the heads as well. With the 170,000km example you mention, odds on it's fine and good for another 40,000km or so. If you are like most owners, doing average annual kilometres it unlikely to be a real concern until sometime after 2030! Has anyone mentioned cracked fuel hoses in this thread? That's probably something else to have a close look for on a 3.2 while under the engine lid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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