Legal advice

[LeeM]

 Ladies and gents in the know. Who would be the best contact in regards to being a contractor that solely trades to one business? Small business ombudsman or? 

 Any advice in confidence is welcomed

[symsy]

Lee for disputes or to establisha structured relationship

[LeeM]

Dispute mate

[hugh]

[Stew F]

Lee, Small Business Commissioner.  http://m.sasbc.sa.gov.au

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[smit2100]

 Ladies and gents in the know. Who would be the best contact in regards to being a contractor that solely trades to one business? Small business ombudsman or? 

 Any advice in confidence is welcome

Not advice, but just a left field personal comment on the general topic of your post. I never did and still don't understand how contractor (with simple business structure) plus income trading from solely one business, doesn't equate to high appetite to play the game, as I would have thought that combination in terms of timing if on the wrong side of a particular tax year = potentially interesting situation for contractor if the ATO ever had the resources to audit and put in a takeway order of show me your sources of income you declared on your tax return from more than one source and I'll have corresponding bank account transaction / deposits supporting that declared income as well "to go with that". 

 

 

 

 

[StevepGT3]

Hells Angels or Mick Gatto 

[Stew F]

Not advice, but just a left field personal comment on the general topic of your post. I never did and still don't understand how contractor (with simple business structure) plus income trading from solely one business, doesn't equate to high appetite to play the game, as I would have thought that combination in terms of timing if on the wrong side of a particular tax year = potentially interesting situation for contractor if the ATO ever had the resources to audit and put in a takeway order of show me your sources of income you declared on your tax return from more than one source and I'll have corresponding bank account transaction / deposits supporting that declared income as well "to go with that". 

 

 

 

 

I think I get where you're coming from here.  Not wanting to hijack Lee's thread, but my son applied for, and was granted an ABN to start up his own landscaping business.  After about 4 weeks of working as a sub-contractor and getting all of his income from one company the ATO cancelled it.    Another example.  My father in law had a large number of drafters (60 or so) working for him on placement at various auto makers around the world. They were being paid as sub-contractors by his company.  The Australian based ones were deemed by the ATO to be employees because they had a single income source.  Not sure about the OS ones.

[smit2100]

I think I get where you're coming from here.  Not wanting to hijack Lee's thread, but my son applied for, and was granted an ABN to start up his own landscaping business.  After about 4 weeks of working as a sub-contractor and getting all of his income from one company the ATO cancelled it.    Another example.  My father in law had a large number of drafters (60 or so) working for him on placement at various auto makers around the world. They were being paid as sub-contractors by his company.  The Australian based ones were deemed by the ATO to be employees because they had a single income source.  Not sure about the OS ones.

Yep, as you note, also potential implications for unsuspecting firms engaging the contractor,  eg could be deemed as payg employer when they look at substance over structural setup of the contractor.  Nice super, payroll tax, workers comp,  time off with pay allowance cashfow drainers that need catching up and that just ate a big chunk of  what thought you thought was not a bad margin made at the time on previous work.

[LeeM]

 Cheers

That is correct Stew. If you solely contract to one company, you are entitled to most employees benefits, e;g, super, holiday pay, leave loadings etc etc, and I am looking into that as I sit here, as are the other contractors, as we had to become a business, trust or partnership last year if we were to work for them again. I'm led to believe from my accountant that it does not matter whether youre a sole trader or whatever, it's all the same 

 My gripe at the moment is not the above (well, not yet anyway) yet I'll refrain from making it public incase it turns to crap

 

 

 

 

 

Hells Angels or Mick Gatto 

I got friends in low places  

[KGB]

All your contractor mates need to start invoicing each other...

[LeeM]

??

Or people just pay what they owe

[Tit]

All your contractor mates need to start invoicing each other...

This is what goes on in Canberra.  Tangled webs of directors and employees.

There's legions of individual contractors here.  With one source of income...the ATO treats as income tax.

[StevepGT3]

most,but not all of the couriers I deal with have ABN`s and only one source of income 

[LeeM]

If its a sole company they work for, theyre basically an employee with the same rights as far as I understand it. Especially if theyre a sole trader, as thats how my employer tried to get out of paying everything by advising us we had to become a trust, partnership or a business. I can still flog them for 10 years back pay if I chose that route

[tomo]

This might help it sounds like a mine field:https://www.lawanswers.com.au/blog/employment-law-rights-contractors-and-freelancers/

[Airhead]

I went to a lawyer the other and said " Can I ask you a couple of questions?"

 He said " Sure. What's the second one?"

[Coastr]

You know, if we all just went back to getting paid for time worked there would be no need for all this hoop jumping.  Company, contractor, employee...just have the same tax rate for all and all of this shenanigans goes away.

oh but you've got to have super.  How will they sell caravans and land cruisers otherwise?

[LeeM]

This might help it sounds like a mine field:https://www.lawanswers.com.au/blog/employment-law-rights-contractors-and-freelancers/

 It is! Confusing too

That doc says 'Contractors are not entitled to super etc, yet the general consensus is that we are, as a few have successfully sued. Depends which legal representation you get I spose.

 I'd hate for it to get that far, as I'm a pretty loyal bloke,  yet constantly being shafted with money is wearing very thin

[Tit]

I went to a lawyer the other and said " Can I ask you a couple of questions?"

 He said " Sure. What's the second one?"

...then he sent you an invoice...

[ByronBayChris]

 It is! Confusing too

That doc says 'Contractors are not entitled to super etc, yet the general consensus is that we are, as a few have successfully sued. Depends which legal representation you get I spose.

 I'd hate for it to get that far, as I'm a pretty loyal bloke,  yet constantly being shafted with money is wearing very thin

I sometimes teach yoga casually at studios.   Some of them keep their casual staff (who mostly have their own business, and get their income from a variety of sources) at less than the weekly threshold for Super payments.    I am not sure, but I think it is/was $450 per week - and then the employer must pay super regardless of the tax status of the employee.   If Im wrong, Im sure some will correct me.

[Harvs11]

...then he sent you an invoice...

...which included a fee for his associate to lick the stamp on the envelope

I used to operate as a sole trader with an ABN in engineering/design.   As I was only working for one "client" I couldn't satisfy the 80/20 rule.  I now work as a casual employee for a company that contracts my services to the client.  I get super, tax etc taken care of by my employer/agent.  No more threatening letters from the ATO.

[tomo]

...which included a fee for his associate to lick the stamp on the envelope

I used to operate as a sole trader with an ABN in engineering/design.   As I was only working for one "client" I couldn't satisfy the 80/20 rule.  I now work as a casual employee for a company that contracts my services to the client.  I get super, tax etc taken care of by my employer/agent.  No more threatening letters from the ATO.

Yeah Harvs that is differant again your intitlements would come under the "Labour hire" agreement where your agent ,employer charges the Client for the lot plus a % 

[Harvs11]

Yeah Harvs that is differant again your intitlements would come under the "Labour hire" agreement where your agent ,employer charges the Client for the lot plus a % 

Exactly, Tomo.  I just wanted to illustrate an alternative to Lee's work situation.   Everything is well defined with all benefits, payments, conditions etc clearly laid out in the contract between myself and my employer.  

Lee, as an individual supplying your services, perhaps you are a little exposed to being taken advantage of by your "employer"  Tell me if I'm off the mark here.

[Simonk]

Sorry Lee, your thread has veered off track a little bit. If your grievance is related to entitlements, contact ATO and dob them in (assuming you don't want to work for them any more).

For those business owners employing the services of contractors, use this tool to confirm their treatment. The result can also be used for backup if you're ever audited by ATO and they question your treatment.

https://www.ato.gov.au/Calculators-and-tools/Employee-or-contractor/

If you're a contractor, you can run the tool also to see if you should be an employee.

The construction industry is notorious for forcing workers to set up companies, partnerships etc. That's why they're always getting audited by ATO. I've sat in on a couple audits and the ATO investigate the company contractors just as closely as the sole trader contractors. They're not stupid and those trying to play the system eventually get caught.