My Porsche 928

[ANF]

Back from holiday now, but house will still take up most of my time building decks, landscaping etc....

At least I have now washed it

[ANF]

One thing that I have noticed that I find a little strange is the slightly "gold" colouring to the wheels, cannot be seen in the pics, but there is definitely a gold hue. I wonder if this is standard or they may have been repainted over the years and the clear has "yellowed" due to sun??

[tazzieman]

Do you think a clear coat applied in 1983 would still be clear after all the sun and heat from braking? The wheels were forged and I presume anodised? 

Is there really clear coat on there and if so , why?

[Buchanan Automotive]

The Forged and anodised Fuchs wheels ( that's what they are in the photo ) were an option only on the 928S from 1980 to 1985 inclusive , and with this relative expensive option the customer had the choice of two different anodised finishes }

Anodised finish 1 )  was a bronze gold anodised finish ( quite popular from 1981 to 1983 / 1984 )

Anodised finish 2 ) was a silver anodised finish( always available from 1980>) , this became more popular from 1985 onwards( fashion ) & from 1986 to 1991 the silver anodised finish was the only finish we would see on Fuchs forged and anodised wheels

Note 1 )   The standard 16" dia wheel on a 928S from 1980 to 1985 inclusive was the cast & painted Telephone style wheel ( these were painted in a light silver metallic paint with clear coat

Note 2 )   From 1986 year type ( beginning of the large 4 piston Brembo brakes ) the cast telephone wheels were no longer fitted & only the more expensive Fuchs forged 16" dia wheels were fitted & I have only ever seen these in the silver anodised finish ( but the Bronze Gold option was still available ) but had gone out of fashion & for the most part no longer used

Note 3 )  From 1987 year type ( 928S4 ) the front Fuchs forged and silver anodised wheels were unchanged as standard , but the rear wheels were now wider by 1" and naturally the same style 

Note 3 )  1991 928S4  was the last Porsche every to receive Fuchs forged wheels , in 1992 ( 928GTS ) received the much cheaper to make 17" dia cast and painted wheels

Note 4 )  The Fuchs forged and anodised wheel ( either gold bronze or the silver finish ) never received a clear coat lacquer , they never needed it , because they were anodised

Note 5 )  To wreck the anodised finish in only seconds is achieved by using the very common Alkaline Wheel cleaners , it burns the crap out of them

Note 6 ) over the decades most humans ( after wrecking the anodised finish by using a alkaline cleaner ) will go the much cheaper route of just painting these wheels with a can of spray paint ( Very Very very common ) , so in other words in very rare to see the standard anodised finish these Fuchs forged wheels received new

Note 7 )  All the Fuchs wheels were anodised , none went onto a new Porsche in polished raw alloy that is exposed to the air

Regards

Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive

Edited 28April, 2016 by Buchanan Automotive
spelling mistake

[ANF]

Thanks again Bruce, you know your 928s

Upon reading the above they do not look clear coated (I did not know that they were anodised from new) but they definitely do have a gold hue, not overly strong but it is there. A few marks here and there as you would expect but I think it may well be the original coating.

thanks

[P-Kay]

2 things:

1) You could have dried the car before the photos @ANF 

2) This forum is all the better to have a knowledgeable person willing to share their wisdom in @Buchanan Automotive - Thanks!

Edited 28April, 2016 by P-Kay
typo

[ANF]

2 things:

1) You could have dried the car before the photos @ANF 

2) This forum is all the better to have a knowledgeable person willing to share their wisdom in @Buchanan Automotive - Thanks!

Pfft! It is called being artistic

Yes Bruce's ongoing help is much appreciated!

[Buchanan Automotive]

I forgot to mention , the optional Fuchs forged wheels , in relation to the sub option of the gold / bronze finish , in old age ( decades later ) they look ( for want of a better expression ) faded & a bit dirty , this is not a criticism its just when they were new they were a very rich gold/ bronze colour  & was quite interesting , but like I said over the decades that richness fades away from chemicals used to clean them & even too much sunlight etc etc 

Regards
Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive

[ANF]

I forgot to mention , the optional Fuchs forged wheels , in relation to the sub option of the gold / bronze finish , in old age ( decades later ) they look ( for want of a better expression ) faded & a bit dirty , this is not a criticism its just when they were new they were a very rich gold/ bronze colour  & was quite interesting , but like I said over the decades that richness fades away from chemicals used to clean them & even too much sunlight etc etc 

Regards
Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive

Thanks Bruce that sums it up pretty well, they do look a bit dirty faded

[tazzieman]

Thanks Bruce that sums it up pretty well, they do look a bit dirty faded

That's called patina , and currently improves a car's value. Amongst those that are in the know 

To make it perfect is to me like stripping an antique. In the Ikea era though , everything has to look new.

[stuartbrs]

When ANF`s car was re-painted, they were going to do the wheels a charcoal grey color, but that didnt happen, so as far as I can recall they were left alone.

When I owned Tazziemans beautiful blue 928, I had the Rhone alternator repaired 3 times till I gave up on it and tried to source a Bosch one from Australia. Even my friends that had trade accounts could not source one for less than $1000 here. I ended up getting one from Roger Tyson at 928`sRUS for roughly a third of that price, delivered.

I now own an 87 S4 manual 928, and there are times when I definitely miss the earlier cars, and even the auto box.

I also believe the seats are better in the early cars. Ive owned 2 sets of S4 seats and have been disappointed with both. You can fiddle around with the electrics and get them mostly right but they just dont have the luxurious feel of the early 928 seats.

If I wasnt spending so much money on BMW and 911 racing cars I would definitely look at doing something with the S4 seats to get them a bit nicer.

Having said that, you can see where Porsche put the development into the 928 in later years, they are an astonishingly good machine. And simply one of the best looking Porsche, and cars, ever built.

[ANF]

Hey Stuart, Nick put on an alternator from 928srus last year, I am about to contact them about it. Has yours been trouble free?

They certainly are a nice car, inside and out! I found your seats to be quite comfy, but then again did not drive it. I have now "modified" my seating position to fit in my 928.

We shall have to get all 3 together

[stuartbrs]

As far as I know the one I put into Tazziemans car around 2010 has run faultlessly.

Roger is awesome to deal with so perhaps get in touch with him to find out if they have had any problems or recalls?

The problem with the S4 seats is that they are just a little to skinny. Even when the early seats are totally cactus they are still pretty comfy.

[tazzieman]

As far as I know the one I put into Tazziemans car around 2010 has run faultlessly.

Indeed. And with the new engine harness I built , it is even faultless-er!

[Buchanan Automotive]

As soon as I read " Paris Rhone"  then later called " Valeo " , French made 1970's 1980's Alternators in Porsche road cars with the accompanied words }" I had it repaired several times & I gave up "  .       Well, we begun discovering this way back in the early to mid 1980's , so for 30 + years it was very very very common to find these alternators were just a bit too unreliable to have "so called " repaired / overhauled 

So in the Porsche world we find the Paris Rhone / Valeo alternators that were standard fitment by Porsche in the air cooled 911's , be it the 2.7 , 3.0 SC & Turbo , 3.2 , 3.3 Turbo etc etc up to & including 1989 ( not 964 ) , then in the 928 world , 1978 to 1984 inclusive ( 4.5 & 4.7L engines , be it 928 & S ) & naturally the dimensions & shape of these alternators were vastly different when comparing the 911 alternators & the 928 alternators

Note } No  944 / 951 / 944S / 944S2  or even the 924 or 931 received a French Alternator , they all received Bosch made in Germany ones 

Now it must be said , a new ( these days ) Valeo Alternator for a air cooled 911 or a 928 ( 78 - 84 ) are very reliable for years , but it must be new 

Now we go back in time ( say mid 1980's ) and in Australia what did we find possible in regards the repair or overhaul of a French made Alternator from a ( example ) 8 or 10 year old Paris Rhone Alternator that was ( say ) overcharging ( this was very common in those days ) , well first of all we had to find an auto electrician who ( here in Sydney ) who would even entertain the idea of even looking at a Paris Rhone alternator , well there was one who got reasonably good at it & even he said he had great difficulty in getting any parts for them , but being that the alternator was ( in this case ) only 8 to 10 years old , it only really needed ( usually ) a voltage regulator & bearings , in those days it was becoming increasingly common for these alternators to experience the beginning of the rectifier ( Diode Bridge) to fail , this new was only available from Porsche genuine ( Paris Rhone part ) and these were even in the 1980's quite expensive , then like all alternators as they got even older we started to see the large internal components becoming fragile / failed , like the Stator or the Rotor , once this happened , that was that , its finished ( economic write off )

Since 1994 we stopped even trying to get the "decades old " Paris Rhone alternators  repaired / overhauled , because there were just too many things that would go wrong time after time , so in the case of the air cooled 911 series , I would buy a brand new one from BWA in Sydney & it came in a Valeo box ( problem solved )
In the case of the 928 series , 1978 - 1984 inclusive , we found a NEW generic Bosch Alternator here in Australia that all we had to do to make fit was to fabricate a new lower swing bracket & rewire to suit the car ( problem solved ), however that said , when this Bosch alternator fails in the future , it too will be thrown in the bin , they are just too inexpensive new to fiddle about with in old age ( more landfill ) 

Or if the owner had a museum quality 928 ( meaning a 928 or S that has less than 30,000kms on it from new ) , then I just buy a NEW Valeo 928 Alternator from Roger USA , this is a bit more expensive , but these collector cars are to original to change 

Leaving 1984 & now going to 1985 year type 928S onwards to 1995 year type GTS , as we know in 1985 Porsche decided to stop using the Paris Rhone / Valeo alternator in the 928 series & redesigned the power steering pump & its support brackets ( now heavy duty cast alloy & heavily bridged ) to enable a much larger alternator & this was the massive 115 amp made in Germany Bosch alternator , this alternator was a masterstroke for its day , it enabled the 928S / 928S4 / GTS with auto transmission to be sitting at traffic lights in gear with the stop lights on ( foot on brake ) , headlights on , A/C on ( Twin very large Radiator  electric fans running ) with the interior fan on & the stereo on & all the while the alternator is just in positive charge , meaning the amperage is in the positive & not discharge ( this was important ) because the earlier smaller alternator could not even come close to doing this .

Note 2 }  As these  1985 >  928S / 928S4 / GT /  GTS  Bosch made in Germany 115 amp alternators got to ten years & then 15 years of age we started to see them not charging as well at engine idle speed with A/C on & headlights on & in "D" with foot on brake , instead we were / are seeing these now in deep discharge & will only be in positive amperage charge with the A/C off , rad fans off & interior fan off , just the headlights on & foot on brake , so this meant to us that they were deteriorating , but still ok if the said 928S / S4 / GTS was used in very limited city work at idle & in Sydney in our lovely grid lock traffic , you are at idle A LOT 

However as the decades have passed( 31 years ) and the very nice massive Bosch alternators have done tens of thousands of heat cycles , they are now becoming economic write offs as well , yes you can do the usual thing , replace the bearings & voltage regulator , but we are seeing too many of these now where they have over decades ingested small rocks ( blue metal ) or have just sucked in way too much dust & dirt & the stators & Rotor/s are just a mess & or the windings within the stator etc are just too fragile / cooked from thousands of heat cycles  .These stators & rotors  you can not buy new & even if you could would push the price of the repair to double the cost of( these days ) a new / exchange ( from USA ) Bosch ( made in China or similar ) 928S / S4 / GTS Alternator , you will not see the words made in Germany on these new / exchange Alternators , but they are OK  "ish "& because these are cheap , when they stop working , you just throw in the rubbish bin just like we do with all alternators & starter motors on the Boxter & 996 / 997 / Cayman Porsche's , they are all just throwaway , just like every car out there this century .

Around two years ago or so I discovered a new made in Italy 120 amp Magneti Marelli Alternator  that has made an even bigger leap in the very important area of alternator charging at idle in "D" foot on brake ( 928S S4 / GT / GTS ) with A/C on , both rad fans flat out , interior fan on & stereo on as well & this alternator even beats what the German made one could do decades ago ( before they got too old ) ,so this has become a God send to us in Sydney , because we have far too many customers who have a 928S / 928S4 / GT / GTS that when they drive it they have no choice , this Porsche is gong to be stuck in city traffic snarls 
To make it fit we only have to remove the massive cast alloy master bracket & mill it a few places & rewire the cars wiring near the alternator to make it fit & it fits and works fantastically & its even a bit lighter in weight ( but not by much )

Regards

Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive

 

Edited 1May, 2016 by Buchanan Automotive
add content

[ANF]

Thanks Bruce another very informative post!

What sort of $$$ is the Magneti Marelli - scary expensive or not?

Thanks

As far as I know the one I put into Tazziemans car around 2010 has run faultlessly.

Roger is awesome to deal with so perhaps get in touch with him to find out if they have had any problems or recalls?

The problem with the S4 seats is that they are just a little to skinny. Even when the early seats are totally cactus they are still pretty comfy.

I have contacted him and he seems willing to help out to resolve

Edited 1May, 2016 by ANF

[Buchanan Automotive]

Hi ANF , the price is irrelevant ( but its not scary ) , because the Italian made 120 amp Magneti  Marelli will only fit the 928S from the 1985 year type onwards , so in other words it will not fit well enough ( clearance issues ) on a 1983S

Regards
Bruce Buchanan
Buchanan Automotive

[ANF]

Thanks Bruce, so the Bosch one (rebuilt) is still my best option for now?

Thanks

Adam

[Buchanan Automotive]

Hi Adam , well on a 928 & 928S up to and including the 1984 year type there is a few options }

A ) Buy a new Valeo 928 ( 78 - 84 ) Alternator ( from Overseas ) & I mean new not a reco

B ) Buy a new Bosch generic alternator from here in Australia & you have to do the research to choose something that might fit   ( these are just Chinese or similar made ) & no longer made in Australia and you then fabricate brackets to make it work & wire up to suite , its not perfect but its OK  & this is the cheapest option & no they are not really repairable , then again not much that's made now is , but its cheap and cheerful & its disposable & more importantly its NEW

C ) Buy a Valeo ( Bosch USA Re- Labelled ) So called Reco one from USA etc , but remember you have to pay a Core charge and when you add the core charge the difference between buying a New Valeo & a so called Bosch USA Reco ( Re Labelled )  , the difference in price is only $ 140 USD , naturally you have to pay air freight & credit card charges no matter if you buy a new Valeo or an unknown Reco one

Personally I would only buy new something , be it a new Valeo or a new generic something ( Bosch or something else ) you find here and make it fit , we have been doing this for years & its OK , but someone has to fabricate / weld etc brackets etc , any good auto electrician that's been around for a while is used to this kind of thing in country towns all over the country
 

Regards
Bruce Buchanan

[ANF]

Thanks again Bruce.

I will see what Roger comes up with. If he replaces/ discounts will go with that for the interim. If I have to buy new I will probably look at a NEW Valeo.

Cheers

[ANF]

Not much progress of late on anything that meaningful.... but I have got the windows working again via fiddling with some fuses/ relays/ and switches

And just now I noticed that this has also got the heater fan working too! Just need to see if the flaps work when next going

Some maintenance and rad fix will be starting soon

[ANF]

Some progress of sorts on my 928.

Still great to know all the info if/ when I need to look at in the future.... Second hand radiator is next in line after troublesome alternator is re-fitted, minor rerouting of trans lines needed.

Spoke to a previous owner today who had the car 10 years ago and had it for 6 or 7 years (prior to Stuart's brother), nothing major to report, he was the one who redid the leather seats.

If things run a bit more smoothly I should be back out driving it very soon!!

Edit: Or so I thought! Must have been trust the apprentice day at the auto elec shop.....!!

Edited 6September, 2016 by ANF

[tazzieman]

Alternator has been looked at and rectified, was nothing more than a loose connection

Glad it wasn't a faulty rectifier  if you'll excuse the pun

[ANF]

Finally got the alternator back on after having to make up a threaded insert for the main bolt..... a bit of oil cooler line re-working to go then back on the road

[Gregk]

Nice work ANF. Yeah the oil cooler comes pretty close to the alternator eh! 

I love the interior of your car. Very nice.

Regards 

Greg