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SimonN

The bubble inflates further - stunning results at Sotherby's

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Exactly. Though driving high speed on the autobahn never appealed to me. Not really engaging,  unlike twisty roads ; as long as the car is set up for handling it doesn't matter if it's 100 or 1000hp! Unless you are actually racing. In which case you need to be an actual real world expert to handle a GT2 or Carrera GT.
 

have you actually tried it?   Hint : it's a lot of fun and amazing the distances you can cover.

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have you actually tried it?   Hint : it's a lot of fun and amazing the distances you can cover.

Yes. I have lived ;) and would like to stay alive to see some grandkids grow up one day!

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Here comes yet another thread hijack.....:ph34r: 

Yes. I have lived ;) and would like to stay alive to see some grandkids grow up one day!

You do realise that the unlimited speed Autobahns are safer than comparable motorways that have speed limits in countries like the USA and....Australia. You are more at risk of being killed doing the legal speed limit on an Oz motorway than you are doing unlimited speed in Germany. It's one of those inconvenient truths that those who advocate for strictly enforced speed limits and that Police speed crack downs save lives try to ignore. Also ignored is the fact that countries that have increased speed limits on Freeways see a reduction in accident rates. Oz has some of the lowest speed limits which are more strictly enforced than many other countries, yet has seen no significant safety benefit from that.

Rant over (for now);)

So, in short, if you want to live longer, drive on German Autobahns at very high speed:D

 

 

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What you're mostly ignoring is the national culture and general disposition of those natives on the Autobahn.  That software develops over generations and should not be assumed to be a natural state for all humans everywhere!   Not everyone is "German".

Edited by KGB

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Here comes yet another thread hijack.....:ph34r: 

You do realise that the unlimited speed Autobahns are safer than comparable motorways that have speed limits in countries like the USA and....Australia. You are more at risk of being killed doing the legal speed limit on an Oz motorway than you are doing unlimited speed in Germany

 

Everyone's perspective differs. Whatever the risk , once you've seen your first hundred decapitated , crushed , eviscerated , bone through skin , and burnt road crash "victims" you never drive the same way again. That's my perspective and I for one don't believe I am immortal (anymore) ;) YMMV - and maybe Valhalla is more appealing than living to a ripe healthy old age!

That said - I enjoy driving in a spirited manner , respecting the formula F=1/2mv2 and keeping my eyes out for NA , MAMILs and VOMITs

What you're mostly ignoring is the national culture and general disposition of those natives on the Autobahn.  That software develops over generations and should not be assumed to be a natural state for all humans everywhere!   Not everyone is "German".

Day 1 on her "L"s , my Austrian friend's daughter was guided from the B road near where she lives onto the autobahn...
The family drive like "maniacs" ,until you realise they do this every day,  not just on high days and holidays (like most Aussie sports car heroes)

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Everyone's perspective differs. Whatever the risk , once you've seen your first hundred decapitated , crushed , eviscerated , bone through skin , and burnt road crash "victims" you never drive the same way again. 

I will agree with this wholeheartedly. I spent a summer working with a crash recovery team and it changed my views on driving completely. Before that, I was a typical "indistructable" young driver who really had no idea at all about the consequences of my driving behavior. I spent most of the money I earned that summer on advanced and defensive driving courses, skid pan and track time.

My daughter is taking her driving test today, and what she doesn't yet know is that if she passes, she will be doing a whole load of advanced skill stuff in the coming months and that if she doesn't want to do them, I don't want to lend her a car.

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My daughter is taking her driving test today, and what she doesn't yet know is that if she passes, she will be doing a whole load of advanced skill stuff in the coming months and that if she doesn't want to do them, I don't want to lend her a car.

It all comes down to whether a person has a "consequence gene" and if/when it is activated. I have had no sleepless nights in my 15 years' experience of living with sons who drive. And we have not troubled our insurers. There are no accidents - they are all incidents.

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It all comes down to whether a person has a "consequence gene" and if/when it is activated. 

I have to fundamentally disagree with you on this. If there were no other road users, i wouldn't have any sleepless nights about my daughter driving. What gives me the sleepless nights is the actions of others, which is what is hard to impossible to train for. Advanced and defensive drivers courses help to some extent, but knowing exactly what a car can do, how to make a car do what you want (beyond the normal) and having the experience to make split second decisions based on the stupidity of others, rather than simply panicking, takes extra training. 

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I have to fundamentally disagree with you on this. If there were no other road users, i wouldn't have any sleepless nights about my daughter driving. What gives me the sleepless nights is the actions of others, which is what is hard to impossible to train for. Advanced and defensive drivers courses help to some extent, but knowing exactly what a car can do, how to make a car do what you want (beyond the normal) and having the experience to make split second decisions based on the stupidity of others, rather than simply panicking, takes extra training. 

Will you allow boyfriend's and girlfriends to take your daughter places , ever? Will she take courses on how to pass cyclists on narrow winding roads in the wet?
My boys haven't done advanced courses , they just met/meet idiots all the time on our dirt road and elsewhere. And they are sharp like their old man , not playin' with phones and applying makeup!

We can discus this all day , or just accept that cars are lethal/maiming weapons and that potential , as with guns,  should always be respected.

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  Well infact, statistics show that more accidents and deaths are as a result of inattentive drivers at an intersection, not a freeway/motorway etc

  Drive like a dick, you die like one. The sad part is that most if the time, others are maimed or killed as a result of a drivers stupidity.

  The speed limit/no speed limit argument has been done to death for years, so get over it, it ain't gunna happen here. Germany is Germany, and the autobahn has been there with no speed limit for many years, and has been ingrained into German driverz. The way the Australian driver is, I'll be buggered if I want to see it here, as it would be utter carnage

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What you're mostly ignoring is the national culture and general disposition of those natives on the Autobahn.  That software develops over generations and should not be assumed to be a natural state for all humans everywhere!   Not everyone is "German".

this is very true and I always bring it up whenever someone in oz starts talking about having German-like speed limits.  No TUV no ADAC no autobahn investment no high speed.  When the maniac dictator started the whole show it was to move the Wehrmacht from one place to the other quick smart.  I suspect the deal with dr Porsche for an economy car capable of  a 70 mph cruise was part of the sales deal for the military purpose rather than a true desire to help the folks - after all they never actually did build any.  Imagine what Australian roads and cars looked like in 1936 in comparison.  In 2016 we are still building retarded road designs with tight radius exit ramps, lack of shoulders and insufficient drainage.   Things are slowly getting better but we are 60 years behind here.

The Germans themselves have had a lot of difficulties with an increase in traffic from formerly Easter-bloc countries where the software was not developing.  But there is no doubt that the lane discipline and concentration is much higher on the autobahn.

the other side of the coin is that the Germans are very strict on urban speed limits.  There's a reason why your VW/Porsche/Benz has a red marking on the speedo at 50kmh.  That's because it is the urban speed limit.

ultimately Germany has gone on to dominate prestige car sales the world over from their obsession with speed though.  It's a very interesting dynamic to try and disentangle.  Are Porsches the worlds best sports cars because of the German roads,mor are german roads the worlds best because of the engineering ethic in Germany?

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 Are Porsches the worlds best sports cars because of the German roads,mor are german roads the worlds best because of the engineering ethic in Germany?

Very interesting points that are certainly rooted in military history.

Are Porsches the world's best sports cars? Well Porsche thinks so and also some of those who drive them. What is best? Winning a race , saving a careless driver , not as expensive as others with better performance?

Engineering nous has always been exemplary in Germany (Trabant
:wub:) , but depending upon circumstances has shone in several other countries - some of who are now turning out extremely well engineered , safe and reliable cars. 

But you get what you pay for,  and cachet is part of that bargain.

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Yea but i see good engineering in other countries really an export of German engineering know how.

Kind of like how, if you investigate the backstory on just about any successful brewery outside Europe, you'll find some German immigrants who got it started.  Same goes for rocket programs if we want to take it further.   Not saying Germans are best at everything, but where they do specialise, they really have strength. Guys like Porsche were just so far ahead of everyone else.

i don't see a day when a huundai gets big money at auction, no matter how well built their current models.  Too late to the game for that.

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All this stuff about the German's being brought up with their speed limits doesn't explain how so many foreign drivers manage to survive driving on their unlimited speed Autobahns. Germany literally has millions of non Germans drive on those roads every year. I bet there are even Australian drivers who somehow come away from those roads without accidents. Luck?

While not advocating a switch to unlimited speed highways, the current speed limits, road rules and driving habits do not make for the safest roads. A few simple rule changes, a reasonable speed limit and common sense policing would make a huge difference in this country.

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I will agree with this wholeheartedly. I spent a summer working with a crash recovery team and it changed my views on driving completely. Before that, I was a typical "indistructable" young driver who really had no idea at all about the consequences of my driving behavior. I spent most of the money I earned that summer on advanced and defensive driving courses, skid pan and track time.

 

I was lucky enough to grow up on a farm with gokarts motorbikes and paddock bashers. 

Leaning what happens when you push a car to the edge is something every driver should learn at a early age. 

In fact, it's scary our system ignores this.

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I was lucky enough to grow up on a farm with gokarts motorbikes and paddock bashers. 

Leaning what happens when you push a car to the edge is something every driver should learn at a early age. 

In fact, it's scary our system ignores this.

Reminds me of a Private Pilot's Licence. Stalls and engine out failures are part of the curriculum.

Why oversteer/understeer and accident prevention and avoidance for driving isn't taught is beyond me. 

So so many tank slappers on YouTube of drivers in cars that could have been prevented with better training. 

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I know my time spent drifting at the track taught me a lot about car control. Even simple things like realising that if you are sliding backwards, you stop a whole lot faster with the handbrake than you do just mashing the pedal.

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Old Man Porsche was Czechoslovakian,  not German. And that's how he got ready access to Tatra's vehicle that was plagiarised into the VW , and hence 356 etc etc.

He was an ace racing driver , give him credit for that.

Just to chuck a spanner into the thread!

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Tazzieman. Old man Porsche was Austrian my dear boy. He had a fascination with electricity when he was a boy and wired his family home. He went onto develop and make the lohner porsche electric car. It had the motors in each hub.

He was and always was Austrian my dear boy. Porsche is an Austrian name and legacy.

Prussian at best.

Don't type until you know my dear boy. The above post tells me you don't know fuck all.

Off topic yet on topic.

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Tazzieman. Old man Porsche was Austrian my dear boy. He had a fascination with electricity when he was a boy and wired his family home. He went onto develop and make the lohner porsche electric car. It had the motors in each hub.

He was and always was Austrian my dear boy. Porsche is an Austrian name and legacy.

Prussian at best.

Don't type until you know my dear boy. The above post tells me you don't know fuck all.

Off topic yet on topic.

Porsche? Don't you mean Borislav?

Austria is a slice of the old Celtic heartland , of which I am deoxyribonucleic acidly proven to be . So he's probably related to me,  given our ancestors were farmers and in the cloth industry. Which is why I like Porsches with tartan seats ;) tis in the blud.

Even Mr Wiki "After the breakup of the Austro-Hungarian Empire at the end of World War I, he chose Czechoslovakian citizenship.[9] In 1934 Adolf Hitler or Joseph Goebbels made Porsche a naturalized German citizen.[10][11]"

I was born in England and have lived here for 47 years. Dual citizen . So what?

 

Edited by tazzieman

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Why oversteer/understeer and accident prevention and avoidance for driving isn't taught is beyond me. 

So so many tank slappers on YouTube of drivers in cars that could have been prevented with better training. 

A year in Karting prior to obtaining a drivers license should be mandatory

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