When did "peak car" occur?

[Redracn]

Optimum braking performance occurs before ABS kicks in. If your ABS kicks in you have exceeded the adhesion limits of your tyres. This is a fact regardless of ABS era. It's actually basic physics.

The Porsche 88 944 turbo S has a stopping distance of 133ft from 60mph to 0(source Road and Track June 88). The 2011 911 turbo S has a stopping distance of 130 ft(source Motor Magazine Aust). Yes 3 ft better in 23 years. How do you like that data ? Saying time has marched on and modern cars will out brake older cars is a very anecdotal and generalised and 5 minutes on the net proves it is just not true. How many modern ABS equipped cars can stop from 60 MPH to 0 in 133 feet ?

 

So you admit that a good ABS will not get in the way or interfere with your manual driving unless you step over the line. Which by the way is around 10% of tyre slip. ABS sounds like a brilliant device to me. 

I have no faith in the numbers from magazines and the likes. They may be able to handle the easy to measure stuff but braking distance is not one of them. I own  the turbo S above and it is not as good from cold as my 997.1 turbo was with steel brakes. 

Of course all braking is not done in a straight line but your brakes work equally on both sides regardless of the weight on the tire so you can only brake as hard as the wheel with the least grip allows. With a modern ABS that can control each wheel individually this requirement no longer applies and it is possible to get close to the maximum retardation from each wheel.

Simple example of straight line braking. Note rear ABS activation and how the speed of the wheels vary when braking.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygwk35rht83j86t/Brake 1.pdf?dl=0

more zoomed in

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygwk35rht83j86t/Brake 1.pdf?dl=0

 

 

 

[SimonN]

Re original post .... Gotta be a 964 Turbo S or a 964 Carrera 3.8 RS, depending the feel that floats ya boat ... 993 turbo S comes in a close 1st 2nd or 3rd

 

 

I think you are pretty close on with this one. Probably the ultimate "modern" aircooled N/A Porsche (cannot be compared to the original RS). The 993RS's are great cars, but they were "softened" up to make them more streetable and maybe a better all rounder but, for me, that lessens the appeal.

But while it is a close thing, it isn't the "peak car". Although I am not usually a turbo man, I would suggest that the ultimate is the 993 GT2.

So much usable power on a truly stunning chassis. IMO, the best production Porsche ever made, by some way.

[Redracn]

Perhaps peak car is not here yet but this must be close.

http://www.noblecars.com/tablet/index.html

 

 

[SimonN]

 

 

The Porsche 88 944 turbo S has a stopping distance of 133ft from 60mph to 0(source Road and Track June 88). The 2011 911 turbo S has a stopping distance of 130 ft(source Motor Magazine Aust). Yes 3 ft better in 23 years. How do you like that data ? Saying time has marched on and modern cars will out brake older cars is a very anecdotal and generalised and 5 minutes on the net proves it is just not true. How many modern ABS equipped cars can stop from 60 MPH to 0 in 133 feet ?

Seriously, you need to get a grip. Your examples are completely pointless. You cannot compare the braking of a 1360kg front engined car with a 1510kg rear engined car. The dynamics are completely different. the only similarity is that they are the same brand.

 

[Redracn]

 

 

Seriously, you need to get a grip. Your examples are completely pointless. You cannot compare the braking of a 1360kg front engined car with a 1510kg rear engined car. The dynamics are completely different. the only similarity is that they are the same brand.

 

I will also add different tyres, road surface/grip levels, drivers, measurement methods etc. 

[SimonN]

 

You possibly wouldn't like my '73 Land Rover or my mates '25 2 tonne Silver Ghost with rear drum brakes only? He won't even change gears going downhill in case it doesn't engage as the brakes are , well , rudimentary. Ah the good ol days , when people drove slowly and didn't risk others lives by texting and overtaking 

Missed this. My brother in the UK has 3 Land Rovers (series 1, 2A and a big "bus" of a 110 Defender) Funny thing is, last year he wrote a series 2 off when he was going down a country lane, downhill and a cow came out from a gap in the hedge (I kid you not!). He hit the brakes, missed the cow and slid into a 4 foot ditch. ABS would have saved him, but after the insurance payout and finding a far better series 2 for less money, he is probably pleased he didn't have ABS.

The Land Rovers contrast rather well with his road registered Caterham race car!