James E Posted 26October, 2012 Report Share Posted 26October, 2012 Hi all I am looking at a 86-89 Carrera or a standard issue 996. Love the heritage of the old cars, but drawn to the value proposition of the 996. The cars I am looking at all have over 150,000 kms on the clock. My question is...what are the odds that the engine will need a complete rebuild at $15k+? Can they tell this from a PPI? Many thanks in advance for any help.... James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyS Posted 26October, 2012 Report Share Posted 26October, 2012 Hi James, Consider myself a bit of an expert with 996 engines - rebuilds - IMS bearing failure etc. Owned a 996 for nearly 6 years. Never had a problem other than general maintenance and the odd small thing (bonnet release cable broken, new gas strut to hold boot lid up etc..)I always new about the IMS bearing issue and read about it prior to buying. The long and the short of it is that somewhere between 5-10% of bearings had a failure earlier than one would like. Kerpow - rebuild when this happens. Your 15K figure below is about on the money. My guy said mostly anything from low to high teens depending on damage.Bearing tended to blow up more frequently depending on poor care. No regular oil changes, no warming up and warming down and surprisingly never driving the car 'with spirit' is not good. Higher revs creates more oil splash into the bearing and looks after it. The bearing was also installed from factory sealed in both ends. Did not allow good oil flow through the bearing so when the internal grease dissappears over time it would get very little engine oil lube due to the seals being in place. As my car (and engine) are now approaching 13 years old the chances of failure start to increase. This almost comes down to more regular wear and tear with an engine than has 13 years use in my opinion. You wont find it in a PPI. Only way is through physical inspection and if you are doing that you would replace. Two main options. IMS gardian. This is a plug that replaces sump plug and detects minute metal fragments in oil. Works like a megnetic tuning fork looking thing. When the metal accumilates it goes off, you shut the car down and tow to a repairer for inspection.It is designed to pick a bearing that is about to fail. Opion two (which is what I did). Is bite the bullet and replace the bearing with an LN Engineering ceramic IMS bearing upgrade kit. Supposed to be able to withstand massive amount of heat and punishment far less relient on being well lubricated like the factory bearing and should last a lot longer than the rest of the engine. My mechanic replced this with a minor service for about 2K. Not bad i reckon considering the bearing is about $400. My car is six speed manual which is a bit easier to replace (so a bit cheaper than a tip). My advise if looking for a 996 is factor in 2K for this upgrade, 996's represent excellent value at the moment considering the performance. It does give great peice of mind for not a huge outlay. As a side issue I would spend an extra few K and find a car with lower km's if you can. There a few that appear every now and then with under 100K's. Not that there is any other issues to deal with at 150,000 plus km's other than part will just start to wear out and you will have to get used to a few things hear and there that will need replacing. Happy shopping..... Andy S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 26October, 2012 Report Share Posted 26October, 2012 Excellent Advice Andy! James if its your first porsche and you don't mind an older car, I'd go for the 87-89 Carrera Personally. Very special cars are the last impact bumper versions of the 911, mainly due to the G50 Gearbox. A Thorough PPI will locate any potential issues and the cost to put right can be factored into your offer on the car. Only way to decide is to go out and drive both types and decide which one makes you smile the most! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustJames Posted 26October, 2012 Report Share Posted 26October, 2012 Good post Andy. And I'd echo wasserkuhl's advice, with the caveat that there is nothing inherently wrong with a 915 gearbox 3.2. Best approach that I know of to 996/986 ownership is to fit the LN Engineering bearing upgrade when the clutch is replaced. The IMS Guardian really just gives you an indicator to worry about until/if it happens, and then just tells you that something bad - possibly slightly bad, possibly very bad - has just happened. The horse has left the stable just this second, so close the door as fast as you can. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvs11 Posted 26October, 2012 Report Share Posted 26October, 2012 And I'd echo wasserkuhl's advice, with the caveat that there is nothing inherently wrong with a 915 gearbox 3.2. +1 on the 915 gearbox. Best description of a good 915 box I've heard is it should feel like sliding the bolt of a rifle when changing gears. Deliberate, precise and never rushed. Like Wasserkuhl said, "go out and drive both types and decide which one makes you smile the most!" Good luck in your search PS. Excellent post on the IMS issue, Andy Harv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-p Posted 26October, 2012 Report Share Posted 26October, 2012 Great post Andy, very informative. Good on you... Cheers C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 26October, 2012 Report Share Posted 26October, 2012 Ok, I love the 915 Box. But most people prefer the G50. 915 is great if you adjust your driving style and make sure all the Shifter mechanism is in fine fettle. + The G50 is heavier than the 915 by some margin as well..... and they rattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 27October, 2012 Report Share Posted 27October, 2012 Hi James, you might find it helpful to look at the guides written by Hartech UK http://www.hartech.org/buyers.html . In my personal opinion, the IMS issue with a 996 is a low but real possibility irrespective of mileage. I swapped out my IMS after a week of ownership and have not worried about it since. It seems that there are a few people suffering timing chain failures and on the 3.6 engines scored bores related to some cooling deficiencies. I'm a fan of good cooling and lower temperature thermostats to address the scored bore issue. I also see myself tearing down the engine to replace the timing chains and guides as a precautionary measure at 100,000mi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasserkuhl Posted 27October, 2012 Report Share Posted 27October, 2012 Barry Hart is a Genius. Whatever he says, is 100% correct when it comes to Porsches. He has devised a 'Road Dyno'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James E Posted 28October, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 28October, 2012 Thanks so much for all the help and advice on this. On a related point, manual seems much rarer than tip's amongst used 996s. Would prefer manual but proving hard to find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oz951 Posted 28October, 2012 Report Share Posted 28October, 2012 On a related point, manual seems much rarer than tip's amongst used 996s. Would prefer manual but proving hard to find! I noticed the same thing when I was browsing the Australian classifieds, Lots of Tips and lots of Cabs. The abundance of cabriolets makes sense for Australia I guess but I was surprised to see so few manual 996s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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