Pet Vet advice

[LeeM]

 Any vet's on here? 

We have an 11 year old Maltese Shihtzu who has been treated for her scratching over the past 3 years or so.

 Our vet clinic has tried Atopica and new wonder drug 'Apoquel', yet after only reading up about both drugs yesterday, they seem to be dangerous drugs that affect the immune system, plus trying Neotopic creams and gawd knows what else that has been prescribed. Whilst on Apoquel, her skin and itching did seem to ease, yet now she seems even worse than before.

 Roxy is like our child, and it's plainly obvious she isn't her happy, normal self, which is also affecting us, so we're looking for some advice/direction as to what we can do next? 

[Ozvino]

Lee, I'm not a vet by any stretch....This is laymans advice so take it with a pinch of salt.

Assume you have gone through the process of eliminating an allergy to soap, your home, bedding or some psychological issue. 

Our dog (11 year old German Shepheard) also called Roxy had a scratching/skin licking problem to the point she made herself bald in some places.  Turns out it was likely associated with pain from Arthritis and her reaction was to scratch and lick - to make the pain go away. Kind of logical in some ways.

Anyhow, to stop the immediate scratching we use cortisone cream and it numbed the area and slowed then stopped the itching and licking. We continue to try and treat the arthritis but it's a loosing battle, winters are the worst she's ok in summer. 

Dave

[Stew F]

My in-laws' Maltese was put on it as well. Not sure how she's progressed.  There seems to be a lot of itchy skin around lately.

[LeeM]

 @Ozvino Thanks Dave, much appreciated. I have noticed the potential signs of athritis coming on, and have thought of exactly what you mentioned. She does limp a little bit after a long sleep, and I've also noticed she is walking differently, kinda bow legged, yet she still runs around like a lunatic. I've read up that they do lick and scratch when they have other ailments to take their mind off of it, so that will be mentioned when I see the vet tomorrow. Cheers for the cortisone advice, I'll look into that too. I'll do ANYTHING to help her, as she's obviously depressed

@Stew F Yeah mate, we have noticed it's worse when the heat is here, and we're also looking at other triggers (been there, done that so many times), yet after numerous vet visits and changing her diet so many times, we've kinda lost our way with it. NOT happy with what I have read about this new wonder drug, so we've stopped it immediately to see how she reacts. 

[sandy468]

 @Ozvino Thanks Dave, much appreciated. I have noticed the potential signs of athritis coming on, and have thought of exactly what you mentioned. She does limp a little bit after a long sleep, and I've also noticed she is walking differently, kinda bow legged, yet she still runs around like a lunatic. I've read up that they do lick and scratch when they have other ailments to take their mind off of it, so that will be mentioned when I see the vet tomorrow. Cheers for the cortisone advice, I'll look into that too. I'll do ANYTHING to help her, as she's obviously depressed

@Stew F Yeah mate, we have noticed it's worse when the heat is here, and we're also looking at other triggers (been there, done that so many times), yet after numerous vet visits and changing her diet so many times, we've kinda lost our way with it. NOT happy with what I have read about this new wonder drug, so we've stopped it immediately to see how she reacts. 

Aside from arthritis onset Lee, and diet  problems and allergies (especially allergies to plants etc - especially wandering jew - in your yard), our little beast has had huge success with this below ... shampoo daily for a week, then next week three times, and the 2 weeks after that just once a week and it should work well - leaving on for 3 or 4 minutes each wash then rinse off .... ""I'll do ANYTHING to help her, as she's obviously depressed"" take her out in the silver bullet daily!

Homemade Shampoo for Dogs with Irritated, Itchy Skin
© Formulated exclusively for AllNaturaPetCare.com

3 cups distilled water
1 TBSP liquid castile soap
3 TBSP of aloe vera
1 TBSP vegetable oil or vegetable glycerin
5 drops Rosewood essential oil
5 drops Lavender essential oil
1 drop Roman Chamomile essential oil
1 drop Geranium essential oil
1/4 cup colloidal oatmeal
1/4 cup Calcium Montmorillonite Clay

[LeeM]

 Cheers mate, will have a crack at it

[clutch-monkey]

 Any vet's on here? 

We have an 11 year old Maltese Shihtzu who has been treated for her scratching over the past 3 years or so.

 Our vet clinic has tried Atopica and new wonder drug 'Apoquel', yet after only reading up about both drugs yesterday, they seem to be dangerous drugs that affect the immune system, plus trying Neotopic creams and gawd knows what else that has been prescribed. Whilst on Apoquel, her skin and itching did seem to ease, yet now she seems even worse than before.

 Roxy is like our child, and it's plainly obvious she isn't her happy, normal self, which is also affecting us, so we're looking for some advice/direction as to what we can do next? 

 

apoquel is safe.
use niralone if you have any concerns (acts systemically and has well known side effects, but that's the point- it's all known) but i prefer apoquel because it is far more specific for the skin and does not have a systemic effect.

Of course they affect the immune system- that's the idea, it's her immune system causing the issue in the first place, and why they have dose rates.

for an older anti-inflammatory like prednisolone for example, there are three levels of doses; immunosuppressive (used for autoimmune disease, not applicable to your dog), antiinflammatory (what your dog will be getting, does not suppress immune system as such, moderates it from being hyperactive), and maintenance (to give the body the amount it needs if the dog has addisons, again not applicable to your dog).

This has all been done many times before, your dog is not the first with a skin allergy- it's all about managing symptoms and trying to find a root cause. for something like 70% of dogs you won't, because it's a reaction to a pollen or similar in the air, like a hay fever. They simply won't be rid of it; likely genetic. some dogs can react to something in the food, and for fewer still it's a direct contact allergy with grass for example (uncommon).

Hope that puts your mind at ease. taking her off it is probably not the best thing you could have done, it's one of the best treatments out there at present.

neocort cream is also safe. just try to make sure they don't lick it up too much. it also works great on yourself if you get a wasp sting or similar..

OZvino; for arthritis synovan/pentosan is safest long term, previcox for short term relief if kidney parameters normal. for a GSD it is difficult.. so many issues with the breed (fellow GSD owner here)

 

[sandy468]

Clutch sounds like a man who knows stuff!!

[LeeM]

 Wow thanks for the reply mate!

So the blurb I read about Apoquel is all scary crap from natural remedy people? 

  I wanted to get another vet's opinion, as we have been seeing the same one for a couple of years, and the missus has just informed me she had already made an appointment  before I posted up this thread, so ill have a chat with them about a few things. I know she's getting older, and no doubt new aliments will arise, yet as I mentioned above, she is basically our child, and we just want the best for her at any cost

 Thanks again for the informative reply  

 

[clutch-monkey]

Clutch sounds like a man who knows stuff!!

it's like it's my job or something!

unfortunately skin issues can recur and recur and recur..

there's a saying about dermatologists; they love their job because their patients never resolve, and there's no such thing as a dermatological emergency.

any breed can be afflicted, biggest offenders are maltese, mini foxy's, staffy's, bull arabs

 Wow thanks for the reply mate!

So the blurb I read about Apoquel is all scary crap from natural remedy people? 

  I wanted to get another vet's opinion, as we have been seeing the same one for a couple of years, and the missus has just informed me she had already made an appointment  before I posted up this thread, so ill have a chat with them about a few things. I know she's getting older, and no doubt new aliments will arise, yet as I mentioned above, she is basically our child, and we just want the best for her at any cost

 Thanks again for the informative reply  

 

i've  no doubt some minor side effects exist- i've never seen any- but it's leagues ahead of the older anti-inflammatories and has none of the side effects they have, it's been developed specifically for skin. I've been satisfied with it thus far, i've got quite a few patients on it. downside is cost, being a newer product, whereas the older antiinflams are ooooold tech and cheap as chips. so for some people who are price constrained they have to put up with the side effects and use the old stuff.

being a new product it was always going to get some scare mongering from the usual crowd!

[LeeM]

 May I ask if we can put her back on 1 full tab per day for a week as a booster, then back to half a tab per day as we have been doing? We're not loaded, yet we will pay whatever it takes to ensure she's ok 

 This is the second bottle we are on now

[clutch-monkey]

is that what she did at the beginning of the course? if that's what they figured out for her weight that should be fine, it's normal to do a loading dose for a week then drop back to maintenance dose.

[LeeM]

 Yep, 1 per day at the start, then half per day

 You've really put our minds at ease mate, so thank you very much for your advice, it is appreciated more than you can imagine  

[clutch-monkey]

 Yep, 1 per day at the start, then half per day

 You've really put our minds at ease mate, so thank you very much for your advice, it is appreciated more than you can imagine  

no problem that'll be $51 thanks

at 11 years old if arthritis is a concern i'd be looking to start arthritis treatment like synovan or pentosan injections to help the joint cartilage.  They are a bit nicer than giving NSAID's orally (though that is also a valid treatment if there is lameness).
i started my GSD on it at age 7 to push back the onset of arthritis.
 

[Lucky Phil]

Really nice to read these posts.  Isn't it great that there are still some really nice people out there who are willing to give some of their time to pass on their expertise. Good on ya Clutch-monkey you win my "good citizen of the week award".

[LeeM]

Really nice to read these posts.  Isn't it great that there are still some really nice people out there who are willing to give some of their time to pass on their expertise. Good on ya Clutch-monkey you win my "good citizen of the week award".

Pigs bum! I just got an invoice for $51 + gst in my inbox!  

 It's put our mind at ease that's for sure. Do you take empty bottles you could cash in? 

[clutch-monkey]

 

Really nice to read these posts.  Isn't it great that there are still some really nice people out there who are willing to give some of their time to pass on their expertise. Good on ya Clutch-monkey you win my "good citizen of the week award".

nah all good- it's just a sign I spend too much time on the Internet instead of working mate! ;)

[Stew F]

@LeeM i also wash my hound with pinetarsol on advice from the"beauty salon".  I stop short of putting a pretty pink bow on her collar.

When all else fails, I find lots of cuddles works. For the dog, and me.