withers Posted 19August, 2012 Report Share Posted 19August, 2012 Hey guys.. The power output (according to Carsales specs) rates the 986 S at 191kw and the 987 at 180kw. How does the driving/performance differ from one to the other? Have any of you guys tried both cars out? They seem to go for similar prices for an 03 986 S vs an 06 987. Just curious and educating myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 19August, 2012 Report Share Posted 19August, 2012 http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1119372 And http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/987-981-forum/229689-986s-or-987-2-7-a.html What they all say is spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 19August, 2012 Report Share Posted 19August, 2012 How does the driving/performance differ from one to the other? Have any of you guys tried both cars out? They seem to go for similar prices for an 03 986 S vs an 06 987. 987 newer shape so won't date as quickly now there is a new variant. S typically has more torque and power, uprated and stiffer suspension, bigger and more powerful Brembo brakes, better gearbox and tweaks to the exhaust. Usually comes with 18inch wheels. The 987 is a wholly more evolved machine with a superior interior and build quality, with alot of mechanical issues resolved and is slightly bigger, heavier (more stable but less nimble) and roomier inside. Interior isn't as cheap and plasticy feeling for what was a 100k car new. Most importantly it should come with PSM, a must unless you know how to correct rapid onset lift off oversteer (ferraria effect/weissach waltzing) and an eagerness to rotate when the going gets slippy. Knowing what I know now having owned a 986 s and 987 s and having to toss up one or the other with no option of a 987 s due to financial considerations, if absolute top end performance is not as important and comfort and enjoying an awesome cruising experience with ample performance and fun on tap, I would go the 987. Newest possible with the least kms and for me must have a Porsche dealer service history and wouldn't buy without a PPI. But if a dealer car, I would get a PPI done by a specialist and vica versa so the PPI is totally independent of the shop that has been servicing it. So if 9plus, Weltmeister etc have been maintaining the car, PPI from PCM. If PCM, then PPI from Weltmeister etc. Just bear in mind that in 2007 P aligned the cayman and boxster motors for the first time so the s and non s both got slightly larger motors that have just that little more punch to even out the slight increase in weight. So if you can stretch to the '07 non S I believe this would be the pick of the crop given the decision constraints. I found the pre 2007 987 S just a little lacking and straining to get going as it had virtually the same size motor as the lighter 986 S but pushing a slightly heavier chassis. Of course all my opinion and thinking and how I would cut the decision, and goes without saying to test drive each (I would test drive a 2004, 2006 and 2007 s and non s - 6 cars in total) to get the spectrum and be totally sure about my decision. And they would all need to be manual cars for a representative comparison. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 19August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 19August, 2012 That's a massive help, thanks Nick. You have pretty much confirmed some of the things I was thinking would be the case bw the 2 cars. I must say, I really do prefer the look of the 987, especially the front end and the interior. Totally agree on the PPI. As for the driving experience.. I don't have the skills to put the power of the S to use. I plan on doing a drivers course (not sure which one yet) when I get the P. As much as I LOVE the idea of a classic 911, I'm really worried about reliability. I won't have the funds to just get the car sorted out, my brother the mechanic is an hours drive away and I really do need a car that I can just turn the key and have the faith it will start. I want to enjoy it! So a early 987 might be the go I'll read those links you posted as the day goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 19August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 19August, 2012 Umm Nick, what the hell does this mean? "Most importantly it should come with PSM, a must unless you know how to correct rapid onset lift off oversteer (ferraria effect/weissach waltzing) and an eagerness to rotate when the going gets slippy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 Umm Nick, what the hell does this mean? "Most importantly it should come with PSM, a must unless you know how to correct rapid onset lift off oversteer (ferraria effect/weissach waltzing) and an eagerness to rotate when the going gets slippy." PSM http://www.porsche.com/microsite/technology/default.aspx?pool=uk&ShowSingleTechterm=PTPSM&Category=&Model=&SearchedString=&SelectedVariant= About my experiences waltzing and some example vids here... Rotate = technobabble for oversteer or rear end sliding around. Like what happens to a P when you go to turn right at a roundabout when it has just started drizzling with rain after a week of hot, dry weather and you accelerate at the apex of the right turn In second... And slightly pump the accelerator With PSM off. And no-one around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 PSM monitors the steering wheel rotation and the orientation of the body and the speed of the vehicle and can sense if the body starts to slide more than a small amount and intervenes by individually braking the inside rear wheel of the direction of the slide to stop it. Feels like putting an oar in the water of a canoo on the opposite side of its turn. Slows and turns the canoo. (waiting for comments comparing mine to a canoo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 20August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 PSM http://www.porsche.c...electedVariant= About my experiences waltzing and some example vids here... Rotate = technobabble for oversteer or rear end sliding around. Like what happens to a P when you go to turn right at a roundabout when it has just started drizzling with rain after a week of hot, dry weather and you accelerate at the apex of the right turn In second... And slightly pump the accelerator With PSM off. And no-one around Your car sounds great ! Cool vid and you write very well Nick.. good story telling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 Why thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 That was filmed at the Porsche Cars Australia stage 3 advanced driver training. I have not done any other courses to compare but the stage 1 and 2 were really awesome. Mixture of staged 'practical' excercises that show you what your car can do in emergency situations and a few hours of open track at Phillip island raceway in the afternoons held over 2 days if you do stage 1&2 or 3 days if you do stage 3 as well. I was really shagged after day 1&2 so wouldn't do all three days back to back. Some guys did, don't know how! You would get alot out of just doing stage 1. Best thing is it is run by P and you in your car so really learn about its capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 20August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 Yeh the Stage 1 - Precision? sounds great. With all the different cars I've owned over the years, I think I have some better than average basic skills (for a woman if I dare say that????) which means I really could do with some training, just so I know how to get myself out of basic trouble should it ever arise! Just to be able to really enjoy the car I'm incredibly excited about this I'd also like to come out with you lot on SMTs once I get my P.. so be nice to not end up being 10mins behind you all :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 20August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 The next debate will be auto vs manual It's been a really long time since I've owned an Auto and I probably need to shift (pun intended ) some of my old style thoughts on them. As I know with the DSG box, its quicker and a lot of fun to use. I need to drive a P Tip next I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 Never tried a tip, Niko really likes his, I have been seduced by the PDK, really impressed me given I have been a diehard manual man all my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-banger Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 As much as I LOVE the idea of a classic 911, I'm really worried about reliability. I won't have the funds to just get the car sorted out, my brother the mechanic is an hours drive away and I really do need a car that I can just turn the key and have the faith it will start. I want to enjoy it! So a early 987 might be the go One of the reasons that attracted me to the classic 911 was their reliability. They are a pretty rock solid car if you buy one that has been looked after by PO's. They can be sitting around for months on trickle charge and still start first turn of the ignition. I am pretty sure there a owners on this board that use their classic as a daily driver. If you buy well, you shouldn't need deep pockets "to just get the car sorted out". There is another way you might want to view the financial impact. Yes money is required to maintain/service/improve a classic 911, but equally if you buy well the depreciation can be negligible, if any. Whereas my observations of the water cooled 911s show yearly depreciation plus you still require maintenance/servicing. A cursory look on carsales would indicate similar depreciation on the Boxster's, but others on the forum will be better informed on this than me. So, are the funds required the maintain a classic less than the depreciation on a modern P-Car??? Food for thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 20August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 One of the reasons that attracted me to the classic 911 was their reliability. They are a pretty rock solid car if you buy one that has been looked after by PO's. They can be sitting around for months on trickle charge and still start first turn of the ignition. I am pretty sure there a owners on this board that use their classic as a daily driver. If you buy well, you shouldn't need deep pockets "to just get the car sorted out". There is another way you might want to view the financial impact. Yes money is required to maintain/service/improve a classic 911, but equally if you buy well the depreciation can be negligible, if any. Whereas my observations of the water cooled 911s show yearly depreciation plus you still require maintenance/servicing. A cursory look on carsales would indicate similar depreciation on the Boxster's, but others on the forum will be better informed on this than me. So, are the funds required the maintain a classic less than the depreciation on a modern P-Car??? Food for thought... Thanks for your thoughts Doug. I definitely hear you and agree with you. You can probably hear that I'm also rather confused by which direction to go in. If I look at what I've driven so far 2000 S 986 one owner, belongs to a good friend vs 911 1980SC 3 owner car delivered in Melbourne - the latter was the car I was more excited about after getting out of it. When I think of a Porsche - I think 911 Targa.. its just what I've always loved the look of. BUT.... ugh, I need to wrap my brain around this more so. Tomorrow I'll be in Richmond, I might pop into Weltmeisters and see if I can look around and ask some questions. EDIT: and also who wouldn't love to enjoy a car for 3 - 5 years and then sell it and lose under $5000 on it? Depending on the 911 you buy and the market at the time. I'd be lying if I wasn't also considering the ongoing depreciation of a late model Porsche. I'm about to lose around $15,000 on my GTI. That hurts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 So, are the funds required the maintain a classic less than the depreciation on a modern P-Car??? I have never had a classic to maintain or service/repair so am guessing here but imagine servicing costs to be about the same if not cheaper for the classic. Parts will be harder to come by maybe? Other than that, a well maintained classic, that is targeted by enthusiasts and collectors, with low k's on it is going to cost far less than the depreciation on a newer model. Especially if the newer model is one of thousands from that year run and not a limited edition. I figured my 986s which I bought for around $50k with about 55000kms on the clock would be sold 5 years later for around the $25k mark with about 100000kms added and would cover the residual. Maybe a bit less that that? And I am figuring a slightly bigger haircut on my 987s in 5 years, although I am really fortunate to have purchased it with 9000kms on the clock so have alot of enjoyment or a bigger buffer built in to the resale depending on which way I want to go. I can still get a different dd and garage the 987 to preserve its resale but why? I bought it to enjoy as often as possible and not swan over and need 3 months of psychotherapy with every stone chip it gets. Yolo right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 Don't look at my car, the extra photons bouncing off your eyeballs and face/body are fading the paint more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 20August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 I can still get a different dd and garage the 987 to preserve its resale but why? I bought it to enjoy as often as possible and not swan over and need 3 months of psychotherapy with every stone chip it gets. Yolo right? Work hard, play hard.. and enjoy the 987! I like the passion you have towards your car Nick... you won't be happy unless you are in that Porsche as often as you can be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 Sometimes I get a little thrill just knowing I'll 'have' to go get/do some thing that involves a drive...other times I just flip em the bird (mentally) jump in and G-O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick987 Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 But yes, not a day or two goes by without some go pedal action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-banger Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 I used to think Nick was prolific with posting on the forum...now I also know him to be prolific with SMT attendance as well There are a range of owners of P cars; some with track weapons that are built for maximum speed to others with million dollar cars that are flat trayed to the Concours d'Elegance comps. Most of us probably sit somewhere in between. Can anyone else visualize awit in a classic targa as follows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-p Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 Ha, good find Doug and it's a targa too! C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 20August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 Several things... I need some driving gloves, they really look the part I'm brunette like her but not as good looking.. Sorry fellas! Shannon's have a yellow 911 like that at the moment How is she sitting so low? The targa is on and off and then on again in that clip! Old movie car scenes are way cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknostar Posted 20August, 2012 Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 987, no question. The majority(I am assuming here...) of time you will be driving around the city and not heading above 4000rpm. You will probably not miss the added power of the S. The step up in interior from 986 to 987, as well as newer car, less kms etc makes it a much better DD proposition IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
withers Posted 20August, 2012 Author Report Share Posted 20August, 2012 987, no question. The majority(I am assuming here...) of time you will be driving around the city and not heading above 4000rpm. You will probably not miss the added power of the S. Depends how often I'm the first car at the lights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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