Suspension Bushes

[Pork Chops]

For my Hotrod.

I need every bush as they're either not there or rooted. They need to be sporty but nothing harsh or over the top as it's going to be a high performance road car, not a track car.

What are the options? I guess factory, and ....?

Be good to get it all from the one place.

Recomendations gratefully received.

[Tit]

Elephant all round?

[tazzieman]

I went Elephant fronts and Elephant rubber rears , factory sway front bushes plus rose jointed rear swaybar droplinks. No issues at all.

Banana arm bushes haven't been replaced.

[ruby82sc]

I have purple/blue? poly bushes from Fulcram, been in a few years, nice and firm with no squeaks

[Harvs11]

Don't believe the hype about polygraphite bushes.  They squeak!   Not as bad as the old polyurethane but even with plenty of moly grease they grab and then let go with a little chirp every movement.

I'll be going back to rubber for my a-arm bushes.  

[Tit]

Though not a torsion bar car, I've got a combo of rennline, elephant and erp bushings and spring plates.

http://www.rennline.com/Bushings/products/1188/

Have you looked at a coilover conversion? I know KW do a kit for IB cars...

http://www.ferdinandmagazine.com/new-kw-suspension-kits-impact-bumper-porsche-911

[Pork Chops]

Though not a torsion bar car, I've got a combo of rennline, elephant and erp bushings and spring plates.

http://www.rennline.com/Bushings/products/1188/

Have you looked at a coilover conversion? I know KW do a kit for IB cars...

http://www.ferdinandmagazine.com/new-kw-suspension-kits-impact-bumper-porsche-911

I'll check out all their offerings. I'm sticking with torsion bars for reasons of cost and I like the way they ride and feel.

Don't believe the hype about polygraphite bushes.  They squeak!   Not as bad as the old polyurethane but even with plenty of moly grease they grab and then let go with a little chirp every movement.

I'll be going back to rubber for my a-arm bushes.  

Something tells me poly isn't the solution.

These jiggas look ace.

http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/sphericalbearings/911sphericals.htm

[michel]

I've put ER sport hardness rubber from front to back including tranny and engine . Exception were the inner bushes rear trailing arms - titanium monoball 

 All done from strut tops sway bars etc. all replaced  at same time . 

If doing again I'd consider poly bronze and other. But like I've said before for the majority, for majority of the time, the above more than adequate ... the rest is beer talk 

 

[tazzieman]

Don't believe the hype about polygraphite bushes.  They squeak!  

But the polybronze don't! So much for the friction/stiction of graphite!

[SimonN]

There is problem with this sot of thread. You state  "They need to be sporty but nothing harsh or over the top". Everybody has their own view of what that means. For instance, I suspect you would hate cars I love, and they are nowhere near as extreme as you could go. On the other hand, I find what many do to be too soft. To get it right, I would try to get a ride in as many different varieties as you possibly can. It really is the only way to find what your own real level is. there is nothing worse than "guessing', then spending money and time to set a car up only to find it is either too hard or soft. I know this from personal experience and now understand how I like a car.

[Pork Chops]

^ or we can just common sense and read between the lines and do some research. What are the chances of your approach happening the real world Simon? I'm mean when am I going to drive multiple cars, all set up identically except for the bushes, on the same day, same conditions and isolate my subjectivity? I'll count your tastes as an outlier using my well developed common sense....

[Pork Chops]

See link below.  Very helpful in making decisions and for buying ER parts!

http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/packages/911packages.htm#a

[Pork Chops]

This is also very helpful http://www.elephantracing.com/suspension/diagram/911suspensiondiagram.htm

 

[SimonN]

^ or we can just common sense and read between the lines and do some research. What are the chances of your approach happening the real world Simon? I'm mean when am I going to drive multiple cars, all set up identically except for the bushes, on the same day, same conditions and isolate my subjectivity? I'll count your tastes as an outlier using my well developed common sense....

You don't need to experience very many cars in loads of different set ups and conditions to find out if your tastes are soft, medium or hard. I also think you get a pretty good idea from the passenger seat, so the reality is that between members on this forum and the semi-regular SMT's, you should be able to get a pretty good view quickly. It is what I did. Surely common sense says that if you are about to spend a load of money on parts and setting up your suspension properly, you should put a shout out to see if anybody has a similar set up and ask if you could be taken for short drive. I bet you would get the help you need and then you would be confident, rather than relying reading between lnes

You say my tastes are an outlier. The more owners I speak to, the more I find they are not. I would say it surprises me just how "focused" people like their cars and that many start off too soft and regret not going firmer.

Th other thing that occurred to me was that the decision cannot be made in isolation. You need to be thinking about shocks and torsion bar set up at the same time. 

[michel]

I suggest we merge this with an oil thread ???

One thing I do know is it's not that hard to swap bushes ... easier than a colour swap. 

For me the exception been the inner bushes on the trailing arms 

 

[911oclock]

I'm in a similar position, about to start a suspension rebuild front and rear. This is a street only car that I drive as hard as the law allows. Do I need all these wonderful aftermarket performance enhancing bushes and bars, raised spindles and mono balls? Common sense says probably not. ER claim there rubber replacement bushes are sport hardness - that's good enough for me. 

 

By by the way is it bushes or bushings?

[Harvs11]

I'm in a similar position, about to start a suspension rebuild front and rear. This is a street only car that I drive as hard as the law allows. Do I need all these wonderful aftermarket performance enhancing bushes and bars, raised spindles and mono balls? Common sense says probably not. ER claim there rubber replacement bushes are sport hardness - that's good enough for me. 

 

By by the way is it bushes or bushings?

Bushing may refer to: Bushing(bearing), a type of plain bearing. Bushing (electrical) Bushing (isolator), a mechanical device used to reduce vibrations. Threaded bushing, a metal sleeve with screw threads.

 

Hard rubber sounds like the solution you're after for your bushings.   Hard rubber in the bushes is another story altogether

[SimonN]

I think you need to go back to what you want from the car and not what somebody else says. then you need to understand that for a road car, everything is a compromise. So when I hear something like this

Do I need all these wonderful aftermarket performance enhancing bushes and bars, raised spindles and mono balls? Common sense says probably not.

What is really being said is "I am not sure i want to give up the comfort for the  the precision that i would gain from the changes", even if the you don't realise that is what is being said.

Understanding what is going on is key. With the changes you are making, you are trying to achieve 2 things. First, there is the small matter of presenting as much rubber to the road at the best angle to maximise grip. This is achieved through a mix of stiffness in the suspension and the geometry.Included in the stiffness are the obvious of dampening and spring rates, and also the bushing. If you use soft rubber, the car can move around due to the rubber moving. So on out and out race cars, you would probably be using rose joints, which create the equivalent of a solid joint with no movement. As an aside, the tyres even contribute to this with side wall stiffness being a factor. The other side of the equation is that you are also trying to improve steering response and precision. This is why turbo track rod ends are so popular, but it goes to all parts of the steering  and suspension. The stiffer everything is, the more instant the response to steering input. 

The downside is noise and vibration. Stiffer cars don't absorb imperfections in the road surface and obviously, the stiffer it is the worse it is. This would not be an issue on perfect smooth tarmac, but how often do you get to drive on that?

For me, the pleasure of driving a car with pinpoint steering exceeds almost everything else. This is about both the instant response to steering input and also the accuracy with which you can steer. This is something you can enjoy on the road, at almost any speed. Consider the difference in steering feel between an average family car and your Porsche. Now imagine that same gap again, or more with the Porsche as the base car, which is what you can gain. 

Then consider with the earlier cars the issue of bump steer, which horrified me particularly when lowering the car. Besides getting some sort of bump steer kit to reduce the problem - I have a raised rack - reducing suspension travel helps a lot (Stiffer suspension). Bump steer is very relevant on road cars, particularly with the roads we have.

Finally, another joy from a well set up car is the way it hooks up in a corner and feels more on rails, because of the stiffer setup. This applies even at road speeds. With standard suspension, you turn in and wait and wait and wait and at some point, the car reaches the end of its roll and suspension play and the tires can finally begin to do their work. Not only does it feel great when you don't have it, but you get back on the power earlier so without breaking any speed limits, you are significantly quicker on the same stretch of road. Besides the fact it allows you to make rapid progress compared with other cars, because people don't understand, they think you are some driving god! When somebody with a GT3RS does it, nobody bats an eyelid but when somebody with an old IB does it, that is another matter.

I accept that what you need to give up in return for the above might be more than some are prepared to pay, but you need to ask yourself what the car is used for and how you drive it. For me, the Porsche is a second car used for fun (and legal) driving. I rarely use it as transport and most trips start and finish at home, other than a coffee stop with mates (SMT etc). o what if I get home slightly more tired or with the sound of the car ringing in my ears. I know in most cases I am going to spend the afternoon on the sofa in front of the TV anyway. If I wanted a comfort car for that driving, I probably wouldn't have chosen a Porsche in the first place. Now I admit i am mad compared with others, so I have used cars set up like I describe as a daily drive, as in the case of my RS. Very few would ever do that. But for your special drives in your weekend car, I have found that people find it more acceptable than they thought they would. Your wife/gf won't like it, because they don't get the benefits of the driving experience to offset against the negatives, but there is a simple solution to that. Don't take the other half with!

All I would encourage people to do is to try to experience a more "focused" car with an open mind so you can decide for yourself while really considering what you use your car for. As I have said before, it seems to me to be far more common for people to believe they didn't go far enough than it is to hear people went too far.

 

[michel]

@SimonN there's a weird Dorian Gray thing occuring between you and @smit2100 smits count lessens yours grow .. ???

@911oclock id suggest your comments about do I need.. could be more simply stated as .. does spending multiple 1000's of dollars on the pointy end of the enhancement curve improve my drive time in any significant manner ?

there are a number of variables..

do you refer to the inside of your car as either; an interior, cabin or cockpit 

how do you rate your driving pleasure - by time shared with your life partner , early morning caffeine filled blats, time spent on PFA or roadside skiting 

do you measure the quality of your holidays  by the amount of money spent or the amount of emotional and or intellectual fulfilment gained , or none of these

are you into historical recreation , boot scooting or interpretive dance?

But whatever floats your boat in terms  of suspension tech is a matter of personal tastes, as much as mates in your ear and how much you want to pay...  to do so requires a bit of research but  don't make erroneous and fallacious connections between well set up and well endowed.

But do post up your final choices.

 

cheers 

 

 

 

 

That said I'd love to have ER's 935 front end and  ASP on my rear, for no other greater reason than it looks cool